Vintage Pair's Vampire T11 XH304

[Tomoshenko]

Looking the part now. Like the little details like the lights. It'll be a shame to see this thread end.

[Cheshiretaurus]

Found a couple of interesting Vampire videos on Youtube, A very good walk around and plenty of detail on this one for anyone building the Airfix T11 of choice WZ507

And this time lapse of fitting the Goblin engine

Then the engine start up. Bit hot at 2:28 More fuel Vicar?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVhqGBsxWpM

Edited May 27, 2014 by Cheshiretaurus

[Vintage1]

Been watching this forum for ages and joined to answer your question re flap bays. I served on Vintage Pair (ground crew) 1982-84 and in that time period the flap bays on XH304 were aluminium as per the wheel bays, though that colour did not apply to all interior surfaces.

Have to say you are doing a great job and can't wait to see the outcome Point to note, and not a criticism in any way, but the instrument panel in XH304 didn't quite match those aftermarket ones you used. The pilot had an additional altimeter directly in front of him with a stopwatch to the left in line with the de-mister pipe for the DV window. The starboard side consisted of the radios and transponder, the radio being set at a slight angle to face the pilot.

When you come to applying decals the pilots names were always on the port side with the ground crews on the starboard. If you are going to do her with the nose open then bear in mind a lot of the non essential stuff was stripped out as we carried our support kit in there, personal baggage was carried in the Meteor.

Enough for now I'd better nip over and introduce myself properly.

[Cheshiretaurus]

Thanks for that Vintage1, I thought they might be aluminium, Very useful information. I'll try to add these in, Was the second Alt where I've highlighted with the stopwatch to the left of it, the radios I assume would be where the other highlight is? Also would the radios & transponder be of typical civilian VHF types of the day?

Nose will have to remain closed on this one as its full of lead Have intentions of WA669 sometime in the near future, may I pick your brains on that when the time comes

Thanks for the input

Mark

[Vintage1]

You're about there. The second altimeter actually sat in the cradle for what was the gunsight on the port side. It was faced with a black painted piece of aluminium purely to make it look like it was sat behind a panel and, as you looked at it the top of the altimeter would pass through the centre line of the stopwatch.

On the starboard side the gunsight cradle was removed and that's where the V/UHF radio was fitted on an angle as stated previously. Can't for the life of me remember the type though I do have a picture somewhere. Where your black circle is (RH side) on your picture that's where the transponder was fitted.

Couple of other things I've remembered XH304 was hand stencilled in white on the starboard side just to the left of the top of your circle

There was also a simple ball type compass mounted on top of the IP cowling and either side of that were the IP lights

Canopy jettison lever was black and yellow, again hand painted

The port side throttle lever, HP fuel cock and trim wheel were slightly more weathered than those on the starboard side as they were getting all the use. the starboard side only got used when new display pilots were being trained.

Feel free to pick my brains when you come to do the other half. Look forward to that build as well

Bryan

[Cheshiretaurus]

Thanks for that Bryan, I need to have a think about how I could add these in.

Many thanks

[Cheshiretaurus]

Made a few modifications to the cockpit from Bryan's description of XH304. Both gunsights were removed, on the left one I removed the top of the sight and the eduard PE, and replaced it with a very thin slither of 1.2mm rod. painted black and scratched an altimeter into the paint. on the right the radios were made from a box cut from scrap plasticard. compass is a bit of 0.8mm rod both then had details scratched into the paint.

Before:-

And after :-

I'll try and get the stop watch depicted somehow, had a try of doing the XH304 stencil for the IP but i couldn't make the lettering small and neat enough with paint of by printing black on a white decal so I'll have to leave that out.

Those cockpit lights either side of the compass, were they the swivel 'spotlight' types?

[Vintage1]

Yes they were. In my time they actually worked as well, not that they ever flew at night or in bad weather as they were very cosetted aircraft.

You've done a great job from my description and now I've located a photo, a makeshift cowling was also added on the starboard side to cover the top of the V/UHF set. The makeshift addition came across the top of the set and down the right hand side into the gap between the set and cockpit wall/DV window. The angle of your photo might be deceptive though as it just looks to me as if the top of the set is exposed somewhat.

Hope you don't think I'm being too critical - I just know if it was me doing it I'd want it right but I couldn't attempt what you've done just yet, well I probably could but would make a pigs ear of it. Still learning to walk again.

[Cheshiretaurus]

Thanks for the feedback Bryan

Found a pic of the lights, so going to add them from 0.3mm rod, The cover I could make from 0.25mm plastic card or something thinner, Bryan are you able to post that pic on here, would be very useful,

Working on making a vacuumed canopy at at the moment as the airfix ones have a unwanted line across the glazing on the front and rear parts and also to remove the moulded windscreen wiper so I can replace it with the Eduard one. Also going to make the engine fire extinguisher bottle that lives in the left inboard flap bay.

Mark

Edited June 1, 2014 by Cheshiretaurus

[Cheshiretaurus]

Few more bits of progress, added some of the PE surface & undercarriage bay detail. and a bit more work on the mould for the vacform canopy.

The kit canopy has some lines unwanted lines moulded onto the fore and aft parts, also I want to remove the windscreen wiper to make way for the PE replacement.

A mould & cast was first made of the assembled windscreen. I made a test vacuum from this from this from some food packaging for a test fit (seems this stuff is no good for canopies as it went cloudy when heated,PETG for the model) From the cast removed the moulded windscreen wiper then after a polish It was put on a plasticine mound and a second mould and cast made from that this, this will be the mould for vacuuming. I think the test canopy can be used a a tempory cockpit cover for the moment and I probably just going to use the front and rear parts on the model and use the kit centre canopy piece, as it will be canopy open.

Had a most welcome email from Vintage1, Bryan today with a picture of the cockpit of XH304 this will be an excellent reference, . He has also given me some tips of how the real one had weathered despite it receiving lots of baths and TLC.

Many thanks Bryan for sharing your memory of her.

Thanks for looking

Mark

[Cheshiretaurus]

Had a bash at vacuuming the canopy tonight but I didnt get the desired results, I'm using 0.5mm PETG plastic, and have made 4 resin moulds a few days ago so should be fully hardened by now, problem I have is the clear PETG sticking to the resin from the heat and getting marked. Ive tried heating for 30 secs lots of marks, 15 sec less marks, 7 sec, some marks but little detail. Fritag seems to have this sorted out, He is using the same vacuum former and resin. Need to have another study of his Jet Provost thread.

Canopy on the left is 7 sec but didnt get hot enough to get the detail in and still has slight surface marks from hot contact with the resin, the one on the right is the 30 sec one.

Next plan is to make some more resin moulds but mix some aluminium powder with the resin to dissipate the heat quickly from the surface and see how that goes. Might be wise to order more PETG sheets.

Edited June 6, 2014 by Cheshiretaurus

[Fritag]

Interesting and troubling.

I haven't got it sorted at all. I've mostly tested the machine with opaque sheet - no problem of course - and only done one or two tests with clear - and I never intended to use them for anything, I've looked at them again and they do have a few marks which I frankly hadn't really noticed before but would be enough to stop me using them on a kit.

I need to vac the windscreen on my JP now and I've just finished a few resin moulds for the job. My guess is that I'm now going to face the same issue as you've had. My moulds are much simpler and have no raised detail to worry about so I should be able to heat the plastic for less time - which looks like it will help.

I think I'll try laying some enamel paint down on one of the moulds and see if that makes any difference - I guess that all will happen is that I'll get some paint transfer - but it may work as when I was moulding my chipmunk canopy I used the kit part as the mould and it deteriorated with the heat after a couple of goes - and I filled and painted it an used it again without paint transfer (but I was moulding by hand and I guess the plastic wouldn't have been as hot).

Steve

[Cheshiretaurus]

Ah, my mistake, thought you had. your JP5 canopy looked very clear.

I have a cast setting at the moment with aluminium powder mixed into the resin, I know this works with polyester resin, but I've never tried it it with the white 2 part polyurethane resin. See how it goes

[Cheshiretaurus]

Now I have Vintage1's cockpit photo I'me going to replace the radio, Borrowed the instrument panel from the other T11 in the stash to help. Panel shape was cut, filed & sanded from 0.5mm plasticard then a lengh of 0.25mm card was wrapped around to form a coaming. bit of black paint next.

Just need to get the old radio out with out too much damage, once the new on is in I'll then add the panel lights & and stopwatch.

Have cast some new canopy moulds with aluminium powder, 2 at the front of the pic are cast with easyflo 60 polyurethane resin and 25% aluminium and the rear 3 are cast with Crystics 9293 polyester resin and 50% aluminium. These 3 are not yet fully set and are still a little tacky to the touch, so might not be able to vacuum them today.

As I'm going to use the Xtracolor X15 grey when it comes to the painting I thought Id better give the stuff a test for compatibility as I've never used it before, Some scrap cast wings from another build were primed with Halfords primer then white primer as a back ground to the yellow, the same way I intend to do the Vampire, the 3 yellows I used are Xtracolor X11 trainer yellow (top) and 2 Humbrol HU69 the middle one being a suspect Chinese made tin and the bottom is a new UK made tin (only have 2 as I bought the second one not realising I already had a tin) I think the Chinese HU69 is too light, the Xtracolor although maybe a correct trainer yellow I feel it is too dark for XH304. The UK made HU69 was also a good match for the one at Newark so still undecided but the Chinese HU69 is defiantly out.

There is much talk on the drying time for Xtracolor enamels, the grey was thinned with white spirit and sprayed 30 hours ago and is still slightly tacky. Someone mentioned thinning with cellulose thinners so might give this a go and see how well it goes.

thanks for looking

Mark

[Cheshiretaurus]

Quick check and adjustments to fit, and spray of HU33 then a bit of scratching, and I think I have a radio panel

[Cheshiretaurus]

Cockpit is complete Stopwatch was made from a small slither of 0.8mm rod and instrument panel lights were short lengths of 0.3mm rod with the end repeatedly dipped in thin CA then kicker until a blob had formed at the end then the end cut off to give a half blob to represent the shade. This was then CA'ed onto the coaming and the rest of the rod cut off. after a coat of black we have this

Still working on the canopy, the use of aluminium was much better but still not perfect, due to the resin on the polyester casts being not fully hardened it seems and not having enough aluminium in the polyurethane resin ones, so need to experiment more with quantities and timings on the vacuuming, but I'm on the right tracks.

Mark

[Cheshiretaurus]

Its been a while, a month of long working days and a holiday didn't help with the modelling. Been working on getting a canopy vacuumed, had used a male mould but the resulting canopies were too big and had very soft frame detail so I went the other way and used cast of the male mould to make a female one, this made a canopy of the right size and after a few dips in clear I was getting something usable.

The windscreen & rear canopy was trimmed to fit, I wanted to make sure the inside of the canopy was matt black meaning I couldn't spray it from the outside as this would create a gloss interior colour so I scanned an Eduard Vampre T-11 canopy mask and cut out a set of masks to go on the inside with a Silhouette cutter. I stuck a set of masks on the outside to help to position the inside ones. both sides were given a spray of Xtracolor light aircraft grey so no black would show from the outside then once dry the interior only was sprayed Humbrol matt black. Eduard exterior masks will be used for the final paint.

Still need to glue them into place and start working on detailing the centre frame on the middle canopy and will paint that the same way.

Mark

Edited July 8, 2014 by Cheshiretaurus

[Cheshiretaurus]

Fitted the windscreen & rear canopy yesterday and blended it in with thin CA and Mr Surfacer 500&1000, Vacuumed a canopy 1mm plasticard and cut out the centre canopy to make a cover for the spraying, this was secured into place with Maskol, I still need to do more work with the Eduard PE on the centre canopy before that is ready. It was then given a quick once over with white primer to give a light background for the yellow. This morning I have given it a coat of HU69 as I felt trainer yellow was too dark from the test card I took to Newark. Might need another coat this afternoon on the booms

Nav lights are covered by whitetac at the moment, I'll mask them properly with Parafilm before the grey goes on, once the grey is on I'll mask & spray the undercarriage and flap bays an appropriate aluminium colour. Centre canopy might be ready by then!

[Zone19]

Bloody Hell!!!...This is awesome Cheshire!!!

Learnt so much on this small little thread!!!!

A Perspex Leveller (Stolen)

Lego Jig (Stolen)

CA & Bi-Carb filler (Stolen)

Nav Lights (Stolen)

You noticing a running theme here? hee hee

Thanks for not only an awesome build thread, but an education as well...

My Tonka is on hold at the mo as I am building my Man Shed...10' x 8' of Modelling heaven Which SWMBO has organised for me, as she wants her Kitchen table back LOL

[Cheshiretaurus]

Yellow has been given 24hrs to dry, so started masking this afternoon, has taken a while and I hope I got it right as I found it very difficult to see the edges of the Tamiya tape against it, don't think I missed any areas or got any lines out of place. I will only know for sure once the grey is on and the tape off, fingers crossed.

I had planned it so that once the masking was on and hopefully from then on will be less handling so I would now be able to add the delicates, There are several aerials on XH304, a bit different to the standard fit so holes were drilled ready to accept the PE ones and a couple of wire ones on the booms. There is also 2 extra ones, one behind the canopy and the other in front of the nose wheel. a search of the spares box only revealed one suitable, I think it came from a Matchbox Gnat. I was on the brink of scratch building another when the devious cunning plan was hatched, I have 3 new tool Airfix gnats in the stash, I wonder if they have the part?....

They do, so 2 aerials were callously stolen from one of the stash, I justified it to myself as I have decals for G-FRCE and that has different aerials to the standard Gnat so that kit wont be needing them.

If one recalls, the pitot head fell off a while back and was abducted by the carpet monster, a new one will go on tomorrow from brass rod & tube, I still need to mask the nav lights and fit the PE arials on the wings and hopefully will get the first coat of grey on.

Done for the night

Mark

Edited July 10, 2014 by Cheshiretaurus

[Cheshiretaurus]

Arial, Pitots, drains & gun ejectors

Bit of scratch building this morning, I've noticed yet another aerial on the nose just inside the anti glare panel seems to just be a little triange, this has been represented by a little bit of 0.25mm plasticard.

The lost pitot was replaced with 0.5mm brass tube, this is not yet complete, Once painted I will add a short length of 0.3mm tube to represent the heated tip of the probe, this will just slide in.

Moving underneath the brass tube was used again to replace the 2 drains that broke off, a small triangle of plasticard was CA'd to the forward one. XH304 still had its gun ejectors so I've made these by squashing a 1.6mm plastic rod down to 1mm in a vice then cut it into 0.8mm slices and glued these in place with liquid glue.

I've decided to leave the 6 PE aerials off until its near compete as I'd just be asking for them to get knocked off.

Nav lights have been masked with Parafilm, Had this stuff in the modelling kit for years and never used it so fingers crossed. once stretched it was pulled over the wing tip and smoothed down around the nav light, This stuff grips by conforming to the microscopic ruts n bumps on the surface. once on the nav light was cut out with a razor at first but found it easier later with a curved blade. The Parafilm is pretty much invisible but I'm confident its there as the surface of the navlight is no longer shiny.

Mark

Edited - Missed a picture off

Edited July 11, 2014 by Cheshiretaurus

[Cheshiretaurus]

First coat of grey is on, thinning Xtracolor with cellulose thinners seems to work much better than white spirit. It will get another coat tomorrow.

Edited July 11, 2014 by Cheshiretaurus

[Tomoshenko]

The canopy looks like a miniaturised version of the real thing. Your perseverance has paid off. Also you provide an excellent reference source for vac-forming for when I pluck up the courage to have a go.

Regarding the difficulty to distinguish the masking tape from the yellow, I sometimes find it useful to run a felt tip pen or any colourant along the edge of the tape so as to distinguish it from the paint area when / if the paint surface is a similar shade to the masking tape.

Enjoyable build and narrative, keep it coming.

[robvulcan]

Looking very nice. Love the Instrument panel gloss cote idea and the resin/vac canopy. Will watch this mate. Good stuff

[Cheshiretaurus]

The Eduard set includes a canopy centre frame so have put this together today.

I've decided to use the Airfix centre canopy, so after a couple of dips in clear, it was ready for the PE.

Masked up ready for some matt black, then I'll add the handle and the mirrors (XH304 had 2 I think)

The Airfix main gear legs have a solid triangle to represent the torque links, this was cut off a replace with the PE ones, might put some wire brake lines on them too.

PE flaps fold up into a nice 3D shape with plenty of rivet detail on the inner surfaces but cant show that yet as I sprayed the outside bits grey and thats still drying. the insides will be sprayed aluminium.

Thanks for looking

Mark