1/48 Airfix Supermarine Type 356 / Spitfire F Mk 21 - decals on, mostly

[gingerbob]

OK, had a chance to fiddle with bits. I had the advantage of pieces not permanently attached (or disadvantage!) and, on my test rig at least, it seems that the XIX part will fit pretty nicely if you do a bit of careful fettling. The "bind" is where the front edge of the 22 wing meets the XIX air intake- you can see the contact point in the photo above. If you take just a wee bit from "above" in the photo's orientation, and maybe a teensy bit from "forward", I think you'll see it begin to settle down into place. In short, the interplay between the parts isn't as bad as it seems, but remove material with caution!

FWIW, the two intakes are shaped very similarly, except that the mouth is a little shallower on the XIX part, as is the "foot" where it meets the cowl part. I'd be more concerned about getting the best fit than which is more strictly accurate at this point! I also tried the 22 cowl underside on the XIX fuselage, and they line up pretty well, except that the 22 part is noticeably wider at the front, as we might expect with the XIX's slightly smaller spinner. It also might be just a little "deeper", but it's very slight. All in all, the 22 nose is just a bit beefier than the XIX's- probably more accurate, but that's not based on anything scientific.

Then there's the trouble at the back end (behind the flaps)... if you just sand it down to fair you're going to lose some nice skin detail, but I don't have any clever solution at this point. I wondered about shaving a little where the 22 part meets the XIX fillet, but that might make it too narrow at the back, and your parts are probably pretty well stuck together at this point.

bob

Edited May 28, 2014 by gingerbob

[Troy Smith]

A-ha!! Look what the postie just delivered... updated and reprinted...

There'll now be a brief pause in the build while I re-check my plans against this new source of info!

A word of caution Paul

the plans in the Datafile's are reputed to be 'not good' , others may know more.

The Cooke plans I sent you have a much better provenance. The detail in the books is very helpful, the information on kits is less so.

Great work, and the detailed steps are very informative.

cheers

T

[CplPunishment]

A word of caution Paul

the plans in the Datafile's are reputed to be 'not good' , others may know more.

The Cooke plans I sent you have a much better provenance. The detail in the books is very helpful, the information on kits is less so.

Great work, and the detailed steps are very informative.

cheers

T

Interesting. I've been reading and flicking through Part 2 most of the afternoon and have started to come to the very same conclusions. A bit disappointing, to some degree. And I had hoped for some more photos of the F.21.

Caution being taken.

[CplPunishment]

Flaps:

Forgot about the flaps.

I will be displaying the model with the flaps up. It is very rare to see a Spitfire with the flaps down while parked and displaying them down requires the scratch building of the hinge mechanism and door that pokes through the wing upper surface. And I am not doing that here. This means I can use the flaps, when added, as additional support for filling the gaps on the upper wing surface around the root trailing edge. But... I need flaps from some place.

The 46 wing has very much bigger flaps than the XIX. Newer Airfix 1/48 Spitfire kits tend to have 2 sets of flaps, for display 'up' or 'down', but not so the 46/47 kit. However, since I am robbing the 46 and leaving a buildable 47 I will in deed take the main flaps from the 46 kit. The Seafire 46 and 47, in the Airfix kit, do share the small inboard flaps so stealing these would leave me short for the 47. These are parts 62 and 63. Luckily, the hole in the wing of the 46 takes the Mk XIX kit part - and the Mk XIX kit has 2 sets which will still leave me with a complete set of wings - and flaps - for my future Mk XI ! Bargin!

So I will use parts 60 and 61 from the 46/47 kit, and parts B21 and B22 from the Mk XIX. B21 and B22 are the items for displaying the flaps 'down' so will need the little attachment tabs nipping off.

 

 The Mk XIX inboard flap fitting (once cleaned up) into the 46 wing.

 

Flap Operation:

I read from the Spitfire V Manual from Arms And Armour Press that the flaps are operated by compressed air to force the flaps down into the on-coming air. But selecting 'up' doesn't operate the compressed air system, instead the flaps are raised by the combination of slip-stream and a spring. So once parked up with engine switched off there would be no slip-stream to raise the flap leaving it available for spiders, nesting birds and other invasions of crud. So no wonder common practice was to raise the flaps as soon as you were down on the ground. I don't know if this system continued throughout later marks.

Edited April 25, 2017 by CplPunishment

[gingerbob]

More than that- having flaps down puts pneumatic pressure through the circuit to keep them down against spring tension. If you have any leak, you'll bleed away the air pressure. When you select 'flaps up', they snap up.

I'd been thinking about the flaps, since I thought only one set was in the Seafire kit, so I'm glad you have that figured out.

bob

[CplPunishment]

Flaps:

Done.

 

Some very minor trimming needed to get the small inboard flaps to fit snug.

 

Camera Port Gap:

 

Filling has started...

 

Basic stuff. Probably more ways to sort this. Once dry I'll slap some putty on that structure.

Edited September 26, 2017 by CplPunishment

[CplPunishment]

Carburettor Intake:

'46' or 'XIX'? I chose to use the Mk XIX's intake and it proved to be a snap to fit with only minor shaving to get it to bed down nicely.

 

 

 

The nasty holes either side have been plugged with filler and the whole seam dabbed with Mr Surface. It's an awkward area of the airframe with some interesting intersections of different curves. Sanding will be tricky; but that's a Spitfire for you!

Despite the level of detail reported here, this has been a fairly easy conversion so far and, touch wood, most of the 'difficult' stuff is now done. Painting soon - I can almost smell the atomised paint molecules from the airbrush!

But a bit more sanding to do first.

Edited April 19, 2017 by CplPunishment

[gingerbob]

Glad to see that it worked! Now for that unfortunate rear fuselage...

bob

[CplPunishment]

Still sanding and filling...

 

 

 

 

With hindsight, I should have left off the carburettor intake until I had filled in the holes in the lower leading edge and contoured the whole area. As it is, it's a dog to sand that intersection of wing, intake and fuselage.

Edited April 19, 2017 by CplPunishment

[CplPunishment]

After a break of a couple of weeks... sanding nearly all done so I've started to lay in the front and rear cockpit canopy sections.

The windscreen section is the spare part from the Seafire 46 and the rear section is the standard part from the Mk XIX kit.

Looking at photos and comparing the rear section, I think, fitting per the XIX kit, it gets positioned too far back. To fix this I've added a couple thin sections of plastic card at the rear and a thin section of clear sheet on to the front edge. These bits of plastic sheet were attached with superglue, sanded down, polished and then the complete part was dipped in Klear. Adding the extra length has brought the front edge of the rear section into alignment with the seat frame and bulkhead. It looks much better in my view. I intend to blend the rear section in to the fuselage more and then scribe new slide rail channels into it at the correct height. Then, during painting, I'll paint over the lower edge, including the rails, to reduce the height of the remaining visible plexiglass.

Edited March 16, 2017 by CplPunishment

[Andrew Jones]

I've built two F21's and a Seafire 45 , all along similar lines to yours , the simple answer to your gap filling problems is Superfine White Miliput . Shape it wet into the gaps , especially those around the carburetor intake and very little sanding will be needed.

Andrew

[CplPunishment]

It's been almost a year - due to all that sanding that was needed, and a new job. And time out while I built a Mk Vb - see here. But I thought I better get this finished....

Progress to date: the airframe is together and pretty much sanded ready for paint (thankfully!). This is the start of the best bit. I prefer the painting stage over the build stage any day. Cannon barrels are after-market resin.

The first coat of paint is applied. This is the cockpit interior grey/green. Sprayed on now right at the start of the process it should show through the clear parts and give the inside of the cockpit framing the correct cockpit colour.

 

 

Edited September 26, 2017 by CplPunishment

[PlaStix]

A year! Wow! Seems like two minutes in some ways! Where'd the time go? Good to see this one's back on!

[Col.]

Good to see this inspiring project make a welcome return to progress.

[Rob G]

By sheer coincidence, I was trawling t'interwebs today looking for ways to build a Mk.21, so that I can take another forgotten warrior from the shelf of doom (started sometime in 2002...). This build came up, and now that I've read it, I find you've not finished yet, but have restarted it today. Odd world, innit?

I have an Airfix F.22/24, the Aeroclub conversion, a Hobbycraft Mk.XIV and a spare Academy Mk.XIV, which could be subject to cruel and unusual experiments. I am however, thinking about grabbing a PR.XIX, as you have done. Your build seems to make the best sense to me, so I will be following along to see how it all ends up!

[Troy Smith]

By sheer coincidence, I was trawling t'interwebs today looking for ways to build a Mk.21, so that I can take another forgotten warrior from the shelf of doom (started sometime in 2002...). This build came up, and now that I've read it, I find you've not finished yet, but have restarted it today. Odd world, innit?

I have an Airfix F.22/24, the Aeroclub conversion, a Hobbycraft Mk.XIV and a spare Academy Mk.XIV, which could be subject to cruel and unusual experiments. I am however, thinking about grabbing a PR.XIX, as you have done. Your build seems to make the best sense to me, so I will be following along to see how it all ends up!

Hi Rob

If you have the Aeroclub mk 21 conversion and an Airfix 22/24, just use those. That is the simplest method.

The Hobbycraft XIV is actually very well shaped overall, but a bit crude and has some other minor issues.

The Academy XIV is famed for being misshaped. too deep nose, too thick wings.

Note the leftover Airfix 22/24 fuselage can be used to make a low back XIV

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234936590-theres-more-than-one-way-to-skin-a-cat/

cheers

T

[Rob G]

Hi Rob

If you have the Aeroclub mk 21 conversion and an Airfix 22/24, just use those. That is the simplest method.

The Hobbycraft XIV is actually very well shaped overall, but a bit crude and has some other minor issues.

The Academy XIV is famed for being misshaped. too deep nose, too thick wings.

Note the leftover Airfix 22/24 fuselage can be used to make a low back XIV

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234936590-theres-more-than-one-way-to-skin-a-cat/

cheers

T

You'd think that the Aeroclub fuselage would be the simplest option, wouldn't you. But... the Hobbycraft actually has marginally better engraving, and the fit of the Aeroclub to the Airfix 22/24 wings isn't all that much better than the Hobbycraft option. I'm very much aware of the Academy shape issues (shame, it's quite a lovely kit as far as fit goes), but I've done a lot of pondering over the years, and I think it's fixable, especially if I'm going to mate just the fuselage to the Airfix 22/24 wings, and that would give me engraving more in line with what Airfix supply.

However... the Airfix XIX is possibly the best option as far as panel lines go. Major cut and shuts don't scare me in the least, redoing panel lines is a non-starter as far as I'm concerned, because I'm terrible at it.

The lack of sharp detail on the Aeroclub offering is the major reason the project's been on hold for 12 years - due credit to Mr Aeroclub, but I feel it will look a bit odd with the mix of detail clarity. Ironically, I had the FR46/47 kit until a year or so ago, and sold it on...

Decisions, decisions...

EDIT: Having had a thunk, is there any way to use the Airfix 22/24 fuselage and graft on a high back from somewhere? Maybe from that Academy disaster..?

Edited June 24, 2015 by Rob G

[Troy Smith]

Hi Rob

we may be causing thread drift on Cpl's build, but I think you could graft the Academy spine onto the Airfix 22/24 fuselage, though it might be better to graft on the entire rear fuselage.

This chap http://modelingmadness.com/review/allies/gb/curleyspit18.htm

did a similar thing

Having examined the mouldings, I decided to make things difficult for myself by only using the nose of the Aeroclub fuselage, since (a) this is the only area where the Academy kit is seriously out of true, and ( the Academy engraving and surface detail is more refined and generally superior to the Aeroclub version. Lots of sawing, sanding and test fitting therefore took place before any modelling on the kit was even started.

Apart from cutting off the Academy nose and replacing it with the similarly dissected Aeroclub parts, I removed the Academy rudder and fitted the Aeroclub extended chord version. The Academy wing to Aeroclub front fuselage join was a nightmare, with quite a pronounced step, but repeated filling and sanding eventually yielded an acceptable result.

I don't have the Academy kit, as I have never found one cheap enough that I'd buy if for curiosity....( one of the very few 1/48th Spitfire I don't have in some form though!)

If cut n shut is not a problem...then Karl did some surgery on the Academy kit here

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/63842-148-spitfire-prxix/

though i'm sure you could just use the Academy Spine and tail.

But you have the kit to eyeball and see what works best for you.

HTH

[GREG DESTEC]

Incredible attention to detail. Great work and good luck with your project. I look forward to seeing the end result.

[Artie]

I've followed this thread with interest because I've been lurking with the same idea for so long now.....Today, I've decided to surrender and forget about it.

All the involved work to get a proper looking F21 is far beyond my skills and willings, so I hope the guys at Airfix will decide to offer a new tooled one....

Cheers...

[modelglue]

Well they've gone ahead and produced a XII, so maybe a .21 isn't that big a pipe dream.

Good work CplP, nice to see someone return to a project after so long. Gives me hope.

[CplPunishment]

Well they've gone ahead and produced a XII, so maybe a .21 isn't that big a pipe dream.

Good work CplP, nice to see someone return to a project after so long. Gives me hope.

My vote is for Airfix to produce a 1/48th scale Mk XIV low back with options for slicing a bit of the top off the fin and having a Mk XVIII rudder. If they do the same level of a job on it as they did on their XIX, and if they use the same jigs, we'll have and easy kit-bash to arrive at the early highback XIV as well (more or less). I have the Academy Mk XIV in the stash and I just can't get excited about it. It just looks fat.

Edited June 24, 2015 by CplPunishment

[CplPunishment]

To keep up the lightening pace... a little progress this evening.
Second splash of paint. This is my primer layer, Alclad 2 Dark Aluminium.
When it's dry, and I have time, I'll check over the surface for imperfections and may be re-shoot a bit if needed. But the main point of this layer is to provide the bare metal for the chipping effect - which I promise (fingers crossed) will be lighter than I normally achieve.

 

 

I can already see it'll need a bit of polish and attention (more bleedin' sanding!).

Edited September 26, 2017 by CplPunishment

[CplPunishment]

...and I must add; I picked up this little fellow a few days ago:

Edited September 26, 2017 by CplPunishment

[Rob G]

For anyone following this build who may be interested, an Aeroclub F.21 conversion just popped up on that auction site. It's not mine, I thought it may be useful to someone.