1/48 Airfix Supermarine Type 356 / Spitfire F Mk 21 - decals on, mostly

[CplPunishment]

Navigation Lights

Time to get back and do some real modelling...

I've included little section here on the navigation lights because to build the F.21 and still save the Seafire 47 one needs two sets of navigation lights. The Seafire 46/47 kit parts will remain with the Seafire, and I will scratch build new ones for the F.21.

This is simple stuff, and I know many of you do this already, but for completeness, and for anyone else, here's what I did:

1. With the wing top and bottom halves mated, I cut some strips of plastic card to make packing/filler pieces. The kits parts include moulded-in part of the wing structure. As navigation lenses they would be too big. This means that the slot in the ends of the wings are too big to be completely filled with navigation light lens. This is not a big problem, I could have just over painted the extra area. But I couldn't find any large enough clear plastic or sprue. So I added to layers of plastic card into the navigation light slots and left to dry.
2. I found the thickest bit of clear sprue I had. After trimming off the end, I held the end high over a candle and allowed the sprue to soften - this is a bit like glass blowing. It's can't be too hot or it will become too runny or even burn; just so it starts to droop under its own weight, seemed enough.
3. With the sprue 'soft' I pushed the softened end into the navigation light slot. This caused it to 'bunch up' into a larger blob. When I thought I had enough I blew on it to cool it.
4. Once cool, in a few seconds, I pulled it clear of the slot.
5. I then drilled a small hole on the inside flat surface and filled the hole with a dab of red paint for the left/port light and green for the right/starboard one. These, hopefully, will look like little bulbs inside the lens.
6. The shaped 'blob' was cut from the end of the sprue and super-glued in place on the wing.
7. Once dry, the packing, and 'blob' lens were sanded back to shape and then polished to regain some shine.

Here's a couple of photos:

 Packing and sprue 'blob' attached. The red bulb is the drilled out hole filled with paint.

 

 Starboard light finished.

 

 Port light ready.

 

These will be masked with masking fluid during painting, but will also receive a coat of clear red and green gloss toward the end of the build.

Edited April 19, 2017 by CplPunishment

[CplPunishment]

On 21/05/2014 at 3:16 PM, gingerbob said:

You also wondered about the "hooks" for the slipper tank. The CG/loading diagram for the Mk.21 does list these, and I saw one photo of 91 Sqn where a slipper tank is lying on the ground around their 21s. I wonder if they're usually hidden by the radiators, or if perhaps they just didn't bolt them on (postwar) unless an op calling for use of these tanks was coming up? Sorry, but that's the best I can do for the moment.

Slipper tank hooks remains a bit of a mystery for the F Mk 21 then. My limited sources of photos only yields two photos on which I can see anything like a hook, and I have already posted one when talking about U/C geometry. Here it is again:

 The hook can just be seen head on, circled.

The other is in The Spitfire Story, Alfred Price, on page 228. Looking at the underside shot of the 2nd production airframe I think I can see the shadows of the hooks in amongst the oil staining. But this is not crystal clear by any means.

So at the moment I'm not sure what I'm going to do about this. I want to think that since these tanks seem to have been used to some degree by RAuxAF squardons operating Mk 22s, I want to think that it would be the same for Mk 21s. But that's just guessing. I'll probably leave them off. If they were commonly present I'm sure I'd of seen more than one example by now. Despite the provision for them, they seem not to have been used much on the 21.

Edited April 19, 2017 by CplPunishment

[CplPunishment]

More on Cockpit mods:

I'm now at the point of closing up the fuselage - and then I can tackle the big one; getting the fuselage and wings joined.

Anyway, here's a few shots just before I glue the fuselage halves together.

 

 

 

You'll be disappointed here, I've not applied the same passion for detailed accuracy to the inside as I'm striving for on the outside. I don't have the patience or skill for such detail. As you can see, the inside is basic for a 1/48th scale Spit. Most of what you see is standard with the Mk XIX kit. The differences are:

• Rear pressure bulkhead (part no C8) is not fitted. A scratch replacement is fitted instead - the F.21 was not pressurised.
• The structures supporting gas tanks and the canopy spring emergency release do-dad is all omitted (kit parts C10x3, B19, B12, D3).
• The whole rear camera bay contents is also left out (parts C2, B10, C20/21, C22/23, A13, C9).
• I chopped off the basic blocks that represent the rudder pedals and scratch-built my own.
• I hate the thick, slab of plastic that represents the armour plate, so this got replaced with a thinner sheet of plastic card (using the original as a template).
• I added the gas tanks from the XIX kit into more 'normal' Spitfire positions - I know this isn't that accurate, purists would want to do better.
• The instrument panel was modded by removing the camera control box and replacing with a scratch built gyro gunsight holder (I've yet to make the gunsight). This is an important 'XIX to F.21 mod' as it will be very visible through the cockpit hood.
• Just behing the seat frame, I added a couple of extra bits of scratch built details to pad things out. I think these represent the voltage regulator and an altitude sensor/switch thing. Again, this isn't totally accurate stuff for an F.21.
• Eduard seats belts, as always, have been added. These are the late type with the central quick-release box fastening rather than the earlier 'pin'. (This is a whole subject all to itself).

And that'll be that. Later today I'll stick it together and then, perhaps tomorrow, I'm on for the wing-fuselage joint.

Edited September 26, 2017 by CplPunishment

[CplPunishment]

Airscrew:

I have a choice of 3 airscrews and spinners for this build. The first is from the Mk XIX kit, the second from the Seafire 46 and the third being a resin replacement from Barracuda.

There's a clear winner in terms of quality, shape and surface; the Barracuda example. But it's too big. The spinner and backplate, moulded as one, is clearly a lot bigger than the Mk XIX fuselage.

I measured all three spinners as best I could. The '46' and Barracuda come to just about 15-1/2mm. The XIX is about 14-1/2mm.

Shape-wise, the Barracuda and XIX are similar, apart from the XIX being smaller. The shape of 46 is quite 'bulbous'.

The blades length of each measure; 25-1/4mm for the XIX, 27-1/4mm for the '46' and a tad less than 27-1/2mm for the Barracuda's (measured down the centre-line of each).

Since the F.21 used a bigger diameter airscrew from the XIX, and since both '46' and Barracuda spinners are too big, I plan to use the Mk XIX spinner mounting the Barracuda resin blades.

If you didn't have the Barracuda option then I guess, to get the bigger diameter prop, you could use the '46' blades with the XIX spinner. But I do agree with others, the '46' blades are not that nice; shape-wise and they have a pronounced twist.

Top Left = Barracuda resin replacement.

Centre Right = Airfix Seafire 46.

Bottom Left = Airfix Mk XIX.

(All held together crudely with blue, tacky stuff)

 

Left = Barracuda

Centre = Airfix Seafire 46

Right = Airfix Mk XIX

Edited April 19, 2017 by CplPunishment

[gingerbob]

Hi Paul,

I'm with you- I worry more about the outside than the inside, which is not to say I don't admire the cockpit work some people do!

A couple loose thoughts, resulting from another look at some photos:

Slipper tank hooks: I saw few of them, period. I think most of the time they're hidden behind the radiators. That doesn't mean that I'm convinced they would normally be fitted- still investigating. I did notice that there appeared to be no provision for the slipper style on Seafire 46/47 (and 45, I think). The slipper tank hooks (the aft fitting) was just bolted in place, I believe, so it wouldn't have been difficult to remove them.

Gear doors: I looked again at your list, and most of them (not counting VN_ 24s) with Seafire type are quite late. I still wonder about "LA139"- any chance you can direct me to that image? Also, though you may have already known this, sometimes the wheel cover "looks" like the Seafire style, because you see the edge of the radiator behind it, making it look like an angle on the door. But you can also generally see the front of the oleo leg cover, low for a Spit, higher for a Seafire.

Somewhere on the web there was discussion of the true size of Griffon spinners- I'll have to look for it again. I was comparing the Airfix XIX and Trumpeter Spiteful this morning, and they didn't look too wildly different, but I had my doubts whether a 1/48 scale Griffon engine would fit in there- they both struck me as being a bit slender as they tapered toward the nose, but that's a superficial impression. I think I've got a dimensioned drawing for the Griffon cowl, so I'll have to check that out. Not that I'd worry about it, if I weren't me!

bob

[CplPunishment]

... I still wonder about "LA139"- any chance you can direct me to that image?

Bob, apparently, no, I can't show you an image of 'LA139' - it don't exist! I have a load of pics of LA198 and some are the same shot but of varying quality. Seems I read '198' off the file name of one, and later 'saw' LA139 on another further down the stack where it is in fact still '198'. Sorry, my mistake; a wild goose chase. I should have followed through and cross-checked ALL the serial numbers against this list in airhistory.

I do also have a bunch of PP139 which looks like an early prototype and appears to have the extended wing tips, as I understand was originally planned for the F.21. But obviously that ain't LA139 either.

Sorry mate. I hope you didn't spend too much of the last several nights looking for a long lost, unrecorded airframe.

Edited May 24, 2014 by CplPunishment

[gingerbob]

No worries- I admit I did do a very brief search just to see if the serial appeared on the web (aside from here!), but I was confident arrogant enough to be pretty sure it was an error.

PP139 was the second Mk.21 prototype, hurriedly ordered when DP851, the first, got written off when a gear leg failed on landing. (As I recall, Jeffrey Quill said it was the fastest he'd ever gone backwards!) You are correct that the extended tips were originally envisioned for the Griffon Spit (Mk.IV>XX>XXI (aka '21')), and fitted on PP139 and even LA187, the first production example. This tip was borrowed (or adapted) for the high-altitude versions, and initially the Mk.VIII. PP139 was the first with the enlarged aileron, extending out into the tip portion of the wing. After LA187 the wingtip was clipped back to approximately the original "full span", which is why the 21 series has the slightly different wing planform.

bob

Edited May 26, 2014 by gingerbob

[Troy Smith]

Somewhere on the web there was discussion of the true size of Griffon spinners- I'll have to look for it again. I was comparing the Airfix XIX and Trumpeter Spiteful this morning, and they didn't look too wildly different, but I had my doubts whether a 1/48 scale Griffon engine would fit in there- they both struck me as being a bit slender as they tapered toward the nose, but that's a superficial impression. I think I've got a dimensioned drawing for the Griffon cowl, so I'll have to check that out. Not that I'd worry about it, if I weren't me!

bob

Ah bob

lost in depths of post #11 on the page before....

a chap on Aeroscale tried this, and found the Barracuda spinner to be a bit big compared, the nose ring has a 28" baseplate, the Airfix is 26 in scale IIRC.

Cue Gaston Marty declaring disaster... oh sod it, here you go.

http://www.aeroscale.co.uk/modules.php?op=modload&name=SquawkBox&file=index&req=viewtopic&topic_id=213816&page=1

You could just use the Barracuda blades with Airfix spinner?

cheers

T

[CplPunishment]

Airscrew:

Got fed up with sanding and filling and more sanding, so I painted the prop. As described above, this is the Airfix XIX spinner with the Barracuda resin blades:

The last photo shows this hybrid next to a finished Airfix Mk XIX for comparison.

 

Paint Process:

Blades:

1. Warhammer Chaos White rattle can primer.
2. Thinned and sprayed Humbrol 154 acrylic yellow tips.
3. Mask tips with tape; measured to 2mm (approx 4in in 1/48).
4. Sprayed main colour coat of Tamiya Rubber Black XF-85.
5. Masked blades with tape to leave a thin leading edge approx 1/2mm.
6. Spray leading edge Tamiya Black X-1.
7. Chip leading edge with Humbrol Aluminium 27002.
8. Removed all masking tape.
9. Washed with extremely thin light grey mix of oils onto matt Rubber Black surface. Dab off excess with tissue.
10. Sealed with thinned Johnson's Klear.
11. Applied decals - I used the same ones from the Mk XIX kit - using Microscale's Micro Sol.
12. Sealed decals with Klear.
13. Final coat of thinned Microscale's Flat.

Spinner:

1. Primed with Alclad 2 Dark Aluminium.
2. Sealed with thinned coat of Johnson's Klear.
3. Applied very small dabs of masking fluid in areas to show up as paint chips.
4. Pre-shaded around holes and panel lines with Tamiya Rubber Black.
5. Applied first thinned, light and even coat of Tamiya Red XF-7.
6. Applied highlighting between blade holes and around the end if the spinner with thinned Red+White mix.
7. Added another light coat of Red colour to balance things up.
8. With water and stiff brush I removed masking to reveal Alclad chipping.
9. Sealed with Klear.
10. Gave the whole thing a light polishing with very fine wet and dry polishing cloths.
11. Applied a final Microscale Flat coat.

(The Spitfire Mk XIX in the above photo, by the way, is in the RFI section; here)

Edited September 26, 2017 by CplPunishment

[CplPunishment]

Wing Attachment:

So the joint is now dry, the wings are on, and it was fairly straightforward...

1. The first job was to carve the upper surfaces of the wings to remove triangular-shaped wedges from in front and behind the main spar position as the wing fillet on the XIX is wider than the 46's.
2. I used super-glue to attach the wing rather like using a welding touch to tack-weld a part in place before the main weld; I glued the rear under-fuselage spur of the wing centre-section on to the XIX fuselage, making sure everything was aligned side-to-side and, as planned earlier, I aligned leading edges as my main datum front-to-back.
3. Once dry, I tack-glued the front leading edge either side of the carburettor intake.
4. The next bit was tricky. I used liquid-poly cement to attached the wings at the wing root join. The tricky bit was making sure the wing upper surfaces were flush with the wing fillets on the fuselage leaving no harsh 'step'. To help this, at the trailing edge under-side, I added some wedges of plastic card.

That's about it.

Here are some photos before I start filling and sanding (I hate filling and sanding!). Red areas show where material was removed from wing upper surfaces....

 Here's the joint before I start filling.

 And a side view.

 Under side showing wedges (white card).

Above; the massive gap is from where the camera ports would be on the Mk XIX. This will be filled with plastic card and filler. This shot also shows the slipper tank hook attachment holes being filled and the three signal lamps which I plan to fill with Kristal Klear or clear 2-part epoxy.

Below; a close up of the wing root. You can see that the '46' wing is about 1.5mm bigger in chord than the Mk XIX's fillet. The Red area shows what must be filled and blended. The 46's fuselage fillet contribution underneath is about 1/3mm wider on both sides. This actually helped me align the joint.

 

Below; an unexpected issue; the rear fuselage profile of the two parts does not align. Yet more sanding will be needed here!

Below; second unexpected issue; some work will be need to get the carburettor intake to fit. I think this will require some curving-off of the leading edge or the intake.

 

 

Just a quick note on attaching all the horizontal surfaces:
As a rule, I tend to attach the main wings of a Spitfire to the fuselage first, before the tailplane. Most kits are the same with a single underside for both wings and separate upper surfaces. This means that any correction to dihedral may require bending of the under surface part at the root, and possibly some carving. In attaching the wing I will sight down the fuselage to the fin and try and achieve an equal dihedral angle on both wings relative to the fin. But once dry, and despite binding, this equality isn't always there.
Then I attach the horizontal tailplane sighting alignment onto the main wings - not the fin. This might mean the fin, if there is a main plane dihedral issue, look like it is at a very slight angle to the tailplane.
Since the undercart attaches the main wings, tending to level the airframe relative to the wings not matter what's going on with the fuselage, once on its wheels, using this method ensures all wing surfaces are level to the ground and only the fin might be a little off the perpendicular. Since the fin is the smallest of all flat surfaces, the miss-alignment is far less noticeable.
If one attaches the horizontal tail before the main wings, and there is a slight error in wing dihedral, the result will be a more noticeable 'twist' in the fuselage which will be exaggerated by the tailplane noticeably not level to the ground.

Edited April 19, 2017 by CplPunishment

[PlaStix]

WOW!! Some serious Spitfire work going on here. Fascinating stuff. Don't know how you have the patience!

[CplPunishment]

WOW!! Some serious Spitfire work going on here. Fascinating stuff. Don't know how you have the patience!

I don't - I can't wait to get to the painting stage !!

[CplPunishment]

A-ha!! Look what the postie just delivered... updated and reprinted...

 

 

There'll now be a brief pause in the build while I re-check my plans against this new source of info!

Edited September 26, 2017 by CplPunishment

[tempestfan]

That looks gorgeous ! I assume you will be shutting the flaps up to have more key area for the rearwards fillet extension (I think I once read that flaps were ordered to be retracted immediately after touchdown to avoid their damage) ?

[CplPunishment]

That looks gorgeous ! I assume you will be shutting the flaps up to have more key area for the rearwards fillet extension (I think I once read that flaps were ordered to be retracted immediately after touchdown to avoid their damage) ?

Yeah, the flaps will be 'up'. It's quite rare to find a Spitfire with its flaps down on the ground and parked up. The crude 'wedges' moulded on the upper surface, that represented the flap mechanism when 'down', has already been shaved off. I'll be boxing in the holes and adding some support before I lay in the flap items flush with the underneath. You're right, the added material will be useful for supporting the required filler to bland in the fillet on the upper surface.

[Paul J]

I did this one using the spare Seafire wings and a vac form fuselge, a kind word to our faves, Airfix for the wing 'furniture' resin cockpit detail and tailplanes from a wrecked Mk.9:

Finished as per pic in post 1 here!

Decals were from the same Seafire kit with the serial swapped around and codes from Modeldecal. The 615 badge on the nose from am ESCI decal sheet that wa sthe perfect size.

[crobinsonh]

wonderful detail and planning

[gingerbob]

Great to have achieved this!

an unexpected issue; the rear fuselage profile of the two parts does not align. Yet more sanding will be needed here!

second unexpected issue; some work will be need to get the carburettor intake to fit. I think this will require some curving-off of the leading edge or the intake.

Issue 1: Oops, sorry, Paul, I didn't see that coming either. In fact, a quick second look and I still don't entirely see it coming! Oh well, shouldn't be too tough to deal with.

Issue 2: Try the intake from the Seafire kit, since you won't need it for your Seafire 47. It may possibly fit better, though will require some adjustment to fit the 19's recess at the front.

Interesting observations about alignment. My only concern is that if you align the horizontals to the wing, from the wrong angle (straight behind or ahead) any fin misalignment will look terrible. Better to try to get BOTH truly aligned, if possible!

bob

Edited May 28, 2014 by gingerbob

[CplPunishment]

Try the intake from the Seafire kit, since you won't need it for your Seafire 47. It may possibly fit better, though will require some adjustment to fit the 19's recess at the front.

Bob, thanks... sounds like a good idea, I'll take a look at that - although I have already hollowed out and smoothed off the XIX intake in preparation.

[CplPunishment]

Carburettor Intake:

(Bob...) The prepared Mk XIX intake is a poor fit now that the wings are attached - see earlier post. Here's the Seafire 46 intake held in place for a test fit:

 

The fit is 'different'. I'm not sure if it fits better, or not.

 

The intake touches front and back but leaves a larger gap in the middle. Of more concern is that the Mk XIX fuselage curves away quicker than the intake's moulded-on fuselage section resulting in a large lump sticking out on either side.

I think my options are:

1. Use the XIX's and cut away the middle area. I think this would reduce the depth of the intake in side profile, and making it look flatter against the fuselage underside.
2. Use the 46's, cutting away the sides and adding lots of filler. This may result in a deeper profile - and loads more tricky filling and sanding !!
3. I think I could use a bit of both, making a horizontal cut and using the best of both.

At the minute, I think using the 46's is the best option, but I may fill the wing area and get the leading edge curve sorted before adding the intake.

I think a closer look at some photos and drawings in this area is in order before I finally decide.

Edited April 19, 2017 by CplPunishment

[NPL]

I forgot to join the discussion: There were two conversion sets (at least) for changing a late mark Airfix to a F.21:

Aeroclub Spitfire Mk.21 conversion

Airwaves SC48019 Spitfire Mk.21 conversion

Aeroclub was a complete fuselage to their usual standard. Airwaves the part of the body to be drafted to an Airfix nose. Very delicately made. Something for Hannants to reissue.

Otherwise a fine job here.

[CplPunishment]

I forgot to join the discussion: There were two conversion sets (at least) for changing a late mark Airfix to a F.21:

Aeroclub Spitfire Mk.21 conversion

Airwaves SC48019 Spitfire Mk.21 conversion

Aeroclub was a complete fuselage to their usual standard. Airwaves the part of the body to be drafted to an Airfix nose. Very delicately made. Something for Hannants to reissue.

Otherwise a fine job here.

For £16.99, I figured I'd give it a go with the more readily available Mk XIX kit.

[NPL]

For £16.99, I figured I'd give it a go with the more readily available Mk XIX kit.

If money is the first concern, you are probably right. The conversion sets should make life easier. The worst joke was Planet Models Mk.21 [resin] and Planet Models Seafire Mk.45 [resin]. Very costly, and -- g... grief -- the fuselage was based on Academy's Mk.XIV with all its faults included.

[CplPunishment]

If money is the first concern, you are probably right. The conversion sets should make life easier. The worst joke was Planet Models Mk.21 [resin] and Planet Models Seafire Mk.45 [resin]. Very costly, and -- g... grief -- the fuselage was based on Academy's Mk.XIV with all its faults included.

Money is 'one' concern. Those conversions seem very hard to come by and more expensive. The Mk XIX seemed a good kit at a good price and very available so I thought I would give the conversion a go.

I've looked at the Planet models kit and did almost buy one. I'm glad I didn't as I'm VERY disappointed with the Academy offering. I have one in the stash but just can't bare to build it (yet).

[gingerbob]

Ooph, that intake is a tough one. I'll have to scratch my head over it- I'm supposedly working right now... so far I'm leaning toward scalloping the XIX one to fit under the wing, but that might change the fairing shape quite a bit.

bob