Spitfire R6800, LZ-N, Gravesend 1940 - black replacement port gun access panels?

[Troy Smith]

while searching for a serial for the Hurricane in the background, SD-U, I found another pic from this series.

famous one, for those who have not see this before R6800, LZ-N, flown by the CO of No. 66 Squadron, Sqn Ldr Rupert Leigh, Gravesend September 1940.

Is thought to have a red spinner and Medium Sea Grey serial, decals for this are on Xtradecal 70th Anniversary of the Battle of Britain sheet BTW, though the fuselage roundels are wrong [too thin blue ring]

From the IWM

apart from some very interesting details, I noticed the underwing gun hatches appear very dark, perhaps replacements from an older plane?still with a Night port wing?

there is also this one, from the other side

The what appears to be painted red patches around the gun ports is also of note.

Hope of interest. Are there any more photos from this session?

cheers

T

[Kallisti]

That is a cropped version of this photo

which was the inspiration for the BoB diorama a few years back (build thread here: http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/68438-148-battle-of-britian-diorama/) This is a scan of the Osprey Book Spitfire Mark I/II Aces 1939-41

[Troy Smith]

I know it's cropped, I mention this in a separate thread on the Hurricane in the background, SD-U.

But thank anyway, I didn't say in this thread.

[Stonar]

The not always reliable memoirs of 'Dizzy' Allen mention that the order to paint 66 Squadron's spinners red came as a result of him attempting to re-join his then squadron leader, for whom he was flying as wingman. The squadron leader undertook some violent evasive manoeuvres, having mistaken Allen's Spitfire for an attacking Bf 109. Allen finally realised something was amiss and enquired by R/T whether everything was okay to which he received the reply.

'Christ, I thought you were a bloody German.'

pp 54 and 55 in my ancient and yellowing copy of 'Battle for Britain'.

Cheers

Steve

Edited May 17, 2014 by Stonar

[derek burton]

I brought up the subject of the possibility of red painted areas around gun ports in the thread "all the stupid spitfire questions" page 14. no conclusive answer.

Dek.

[gingerbob]

(nevermind- wasn't paying attention!)

Edited May 18, 2014 by gingerbob

[DominikS]

Hi

Sorry for refreshing the old meat but I think those panels re not replacements but dirty.

Found this photo and it shows dirt. I'm building this plane and was thinking what to do. Now I know...methinks.

[Peter Roberts]

Haven't seen this post before - thanks for reviving it Dominik. 

 

Sorry to throw this up, but if it is dirty panels, why just the panels and not the surrounding areas? Dirt is certainly a possibility, but it is very neatly acquired dirt....

 

I'm inclined to go with Troy - a different colour, but what? Black is one choice, from earlier paint schemes, but they don't look that dark. Maybe faded by this time? And both wings? Or maybe from another Spitfire with an early custom mixed version of Sky. And why ALL gun panels (assuming this from what is seen in the photo)? A recognition feature?

 

A very interesting and curious subject with the MSG serial number and rank pennant as well. It has several unique features. If he was previously mistaken for a 109 I can understand him wanting to make his plane different!

[Troy Smith]

20 minutes ago, Peter Roberts said:

why just the panels and not the surrounding areas? Dirt is certainly a possibility, but it is very neatly acquired dirt....

 

23 minutes ago, Peter Roberts said:

And why ALL gun panels (assuming this from what is seen in the photo)? A recognition feature?

Somewhere this was mentioned, and make sense, that the panels were wiped over when off the machine, with gunk and cordite, would give you very neatly applied dirt. 

 

Now I'm racking my brain where I read that idea! 

[Peter Roberts]

33 minutes ago, Troy Smith said:

 

Somewhere this was mentioned, and make sense, that the panels were wiped over when off the machine, with gunk and cordite, would give you very neatly applied dirt. 

 

Now I'm racking my brain where I read that idea! 

 

Thanks Troy. But wouldn't they also wipe around the panels on the lower wing surfaces too? I'm sure cordite and oil wouldn't be confined to just these panels - ?

[Troy Smith]

1 hour ago, Peter Roberts said:

 

Thanks Troy. But wouldn't they also wipe around the panels on the lower wing surfaces too? I'm sure cordite and oil wouldn't be confined to just these panels - ?

Probably, but as the panels had been taken off,  they may have other gunk on them, or just not wiped as well, or a oily cloth?

 

Or as the panels would have more of the cordite deposit,  if the panel was then wiped down with a oily or petrol soaked rag when off the machine,  it was cleaned off but has dark deposit smeared over just the panel.... imagine doing this your self to see what I mean, you tend to wipe over the entire panel, not just back over the gunk if you see what I mean,  meaning the panel could end up contrasting to the wing....

 

There was an interesting comment on here regarding the sensitivity of B/W films to UV light,  and how eyes are not, and how this could affect grey tones in odd ways which could be another factor....

 

HTH

 

[DominikS]

11 hours ago, Peter Roberts said:

 

Thanks Troy. But wouldn't they also wipe around the panels on the lower wing surfaces too? I'm sure cordite and oil wouldn't be confined to just these panels - ?

I think that these panels are just dirty. As this aircraft was build after introducing Sky on lower surfaces, replacing only few panels with old ones (black) sounds strange. If look carefully at the panel covered by the roundel you can see same situation. So I think that they are just dirty.

There is one more thing. Some say that this plane had lower surfaces painted Sky Blue. For me it sounds strange as it was built at the end of June (first flight 1st July) so I assume that the colour was Sky.