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RAF squadron designation question


kstater94

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While looking at the RAF Leuchars home page, I noticed that they describe the station as being the home to two Typhoon squadrons - 6 squadron and 1(Fighter) squadron.

I also noticed that any time 12 squadron is mentioned it is usually listed as 12(Bomber).

I'm very curious why these designations are unique to these squadrons and non other. I mean, 6 is also a fighter squadron (as is 3 and 11 at Coningsby) but they don't have (Fighter) after thier numbers.

So, I was wondering if someone could give me a history lesson on the designations and why they are unique to some and not to others.

Thanks in advance for any light that you can shed

Cheers!

John

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Tradition.

At one time the RAF duplicated some squadron numbers - designating some [fighter] or [bomber] or [AC], or simply designated some squadrons into a particular role.

As some squadrons were disbanded the one remaining of the duplicate pair retained its bracketed designation, especially if it kept the same role as before, more as tradition than from actual need. Some dropped the designator as no longer needed.

The same for the 'presentation' squadrons or ones associated with countries or counties - tradition, to keep linked to that area, part of military tradition.

Rather like the army regiments during the Napoleonic wars; all regiments became numbers, no longer called after the man who rasied them or the area they came from, but by tradition the names kept on -although unofficial/official.

[eg; Cunninghams Dragoons became the 6th Dragoons, but unofficially was still called the Enniskilling Dragoons (aka Inniskilling Dragoons)]

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The history behind the squadron titles is relatively simple. The 'Fighter', 'Bomber', 'Army Cooperation' titles were simply that; they designated the squadrons role mainly from the WW1 or immediate post-WW1 era. There were no duplications of sqn numbers other than there was 1 Sqn RFC and a 1 Sqn RNAS - incidentally both were fighter squadrons at the time. On the formation of the RAF all former RFC sqns retained their numbers, all former RNAS sqns were converted into 200 series, so 1 Sqn RNAS became 201 Sqn RAF. There are lots more titles/designators: the recently disbanded 216 Sqn is (historically) 216 (Bomber Transport) Sqn; 201 was officially 201 (Flying Boat) Sqn; 42 was 42 (Torpedo Bomber) Sqn and 101 Sqn is 101 (Bomber) Sqn.

With the expansion of the RAF pre-WWII many of the newer squadrons were named by a locality ie the 600 series, so 600 City of London Sqn or 609 (North Riding) Sqn and these generally reflected the locality from which the sqn recruited or was based. Obviously there are some that are named after where personnel were recruited from or from where major donors/sponsors came from, so 44 (Rhodesia) Sqn or 92 (East India) Sqn. Incidentally 237 was also a Rhodesia sqn.

With the expansion in WWII 300 series sqns were primarily made up from European personnel from nations such as Poland, Czechoslovakia, Free French or Norway etc so you also saw 322 (Dutch) Sqn and 342 (Lorraine) Sqn. Many of these remain in existence with their parent nations today (322 is now an F-16 Sqn)

If I remember correctly 1-199 series were former RFC units; 200 series were former RNAS units; 300 series were foreign European sqns brought under RAF Command; 400 series were Aussie, Kiwi or Canadian sqns under RAF command; 500 series were special reserve and RAF sqns; 600 series were RAuxAF up to 616 Sqn then RAF units up to 650 and then Army associated units. 700 series were Fleet Air Arm associated after that I am struggling to remember.

Much as many squadrons still keep their former identities (and long may it continue) there was an Air Ministry decree (in the 1950s IIRC) which stated that all squadrons would stop using the (role) in their badges. It also stated that squadrons would use Arabic rather than Roman numerals. This was at the time that all badges were changed from the "King's Crown" to the "Queen's Crown" (and yes, I know those aren't the correct terms).

If you really do want lots more detail may I recommend 2 very good books: 'Flying Units of the RAF' by Alan Lake and/or 'RAF Squadrons' by Wg Cdr C Jefford? Not sure if they are still in production but I'm sure they can be found via the usual suspects.

Plenty of info here as well, if you are interested.

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I always thought the F stood for Founder sqn. I.e. First ever RAF sqns... Probably wrong though!

That's the Air Cadets. :)

Some of the designators are wholly appropriate, and still are to the Sqn, as they've been broadly in the same role since their inception (although the use of 3(F) on the Harrier force must've been dubious! ;) ). Others could have had several - look at 16 (of course now an ® Sqn) - started as a AC unit, transferred to PR, and then spent most of the post war years as a tactical bomber Sqn!

101 Sqn is 101 (Bomber) Sqn

Although is sometimes referred to as 101 (Special Duties) Sqn from the Ludford Magna years - do you know if this was ever an official title?

Edited by Vickers McFunbus
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If I remember correctly 1-199 series were former RFC units; 200 series were former RNAS units; 300 series were foreign European sqns brought under RAF Command; 400 series were Aussie, Kiwi or Canadian sqns under RAF command; 500 series were special reserve and RAF sqns; 600 series were RAuxAF up to 616 Sqn then RAF units up to 650 and then Army associated units. 700 series were Fleet Air Arm associated after that I am struggling to remember.

The FAA assigns numbers in the 700–799 range to training and operational conversion squadrons and numbers in the 800–899 range to operational squadrons. During WWII the 1700 and 1800 ranges were also used for operational squadrons.

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That's the Air Cadets. :)

That applied to the first 50 squadrons. A local ish unit to me is 7(F) in Aigburth south Liverpool. Other ATC units mirrored those of RAF units such as 610 (City of Chester).

Trevor

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Just to add to Roland's post/address a couple of points in others.

The role suffix, in brackets, is heritage; it used to be the case that different roles were denoted by the type of badge worn on the aircraft. If you were a fighter squadron, the badge would be in a stylised surround - see (acknowledgement to Pprune user 'Wilf San' who posted it a couple of years ago, and the Flight archives, from where it is taken originally).

File052.jpg

The suffix, then, has always been role - F= Fighter, B=Bomber, AC = Army cooperation, TB = Torpedo Bomber, etc, etc.

After 1945, and particularly after the Sandys review in 1957, the Air Staff, and specially the Air Council, concluded that the use of the role designator in the badge was unhelpful. As the RAF contracted in size, it meant that the rules regarding retention of senior numberplates (explained elsewhere on here) could lead to wild anomalies between the presentation of the squadron's number and historic role as styled by the squadron (II(AC); 3(F); 18(B.), when the squadron was, in fact, doing something entirely different. Furthermore, not all units put the role suffix in their title. 24 Squadron, for instance, should be 24(F) based upon its historic role, but it was, of course, a communications and then transport squadron after 1920 - which, in turn, would lead us to the situation whereby we had a Hercules unit claiming to be a fighter squadron (the last but one/two 24 Sqn boss is a good mate and a history graduate - it turned out we probably met as students in our respective college bars and various , but it took another 18 years before we became friends, but I digress - and he proposed, jokingly, to resurrect the role suffix to confuse people).

And the Air Council also noted that there were some roles which were emerging for which there was no role suffix. For instance, what about Bloodhound squadrons? Did you get (say) 247(SAM) Squadron? Or 247 (GW) Squadron [GW being 'Guided Weapons']. And more to the point, what about helicopters? You couldn't have (more anon...) a helicopter squadron appearing to be a bomber unit, could you? It'd be nonsense in anything other than terms of service heritage and tradition.

They also had to worry about the named squadrons. The RAuxAF units were not an issue post Sandys (obviously), but one of the reasons some squadrons - 74 (Trinidad), 44 (Rhodesia), 92 (East India), 139 (Jamaica), for instance - didn't use the role designator was because of their association with a location, often somewhere which had done a funding drive to provide aircraft, or a squadron had a large proportion of aircrew from that place. The Air Council was concerned that the locations concerned, if sovereign nations, might attempt to influence numberplate policy, kicking up a diplomatic storm if 'their' squadron was disbanded and not reformed because it was too junior.

And on top of that, the lack of standardisation between Roman and Arabic numerals was confusing.

So, in a series of edicts, it was decreed that role descriptors would be removed from the official squadron badges (where they were used, many squadrons did not) and as a suffix to the presentation of the squadron number; association with places (and groups - e.g. The Fellowship of the Bellows) would be removed as a suffix to the squadron number, and Arabic numerals would be employed.

The problem was, of course, that this went down rather badly with the squadrons. II(AC) simply gave the edict a stiff ignoring (and thus created the confusion that exists today) on the basis that as the senior RAF squadron, they'd keep their traditions, thank you very much (II(AC) is officially the senior squadron on the lists - that doesn't mean they were necessarily the first to fly [see the short debate between II(AC) and 3(F) on this point, which has been going on for 102 years] just in case any 3(F) members appear here).

That meant that while in terms of official correspondence, etc, Squadrons were now just 1, 2, 3, 4 and so on, many of them simply carried on as before.

This led to trouble, just as predicted. When the Victor was withdrawn from the bomber role, the Air Staff and the Foreign & Commonwealth Office and various other government bodies came under pressure from the government of Jamaica, who made it clear that they were expecting to see 139 (Jamaica) squadron return. Now, 139 was, in fact, under consideration as a possible Buccaneer squadron, but wasn't quite senior enough, and - to cut a long story short - the Jamaican government was politely told that it wasn't their business which numberplates appeared in the RAF ORBAT.

This saw names fall into almost complete disuse, although 44 informally used the 'Rhodesia' name, almost to be naughty boys during the Ian Smith/UDI years; when Rhodesia ceased to exist, the squadron even less formally renamed itself 44(Z) Squadron, with the Z - obviously - being 'Zimbabwe'. The implied association with Mugabe, though, caused some discomfort, particularly as he quickly set about laying the foundations of his current reputation for the observance of democracy, human rights, equality and so on, and I believe that the '44(Zimbabwe)' name lost its popularity fairly quickly; certainly, at least one acquaintance who served on 44 in its final days has no recollection of this form of usage.

Affiliations, though, remained entirely acceptable (see, for instance, 201 and Guernsey), though - which, in fact, was always the Air Council's plan - they just didn't want them highlighted on the squadron badge or in any official correspondence, thus giving the impression that a squadron partly 'belonged' to somewhere which was once part of the British Empire.

Roman numerals and role suffixes never went away, though, and we've seen an increase in this informal use in the last 15 or so years - and this, in turn, thanks to the way public relations are conducted these days, has seen the use of these things become much more common as people serving on the squadrons, or the station send in material for release which refers to (say) V(AC) Squadron and no-one in the DMC empire seems to recall that there is, strictly speaking, a rule which says that they should edit this to 5 Squadron prior to loading the story onto the web/putting it in an obscure place in the Red Arrows Fans News (that is what the 'RAF' in RAF News stands, for isn't it?).

So we now - of course - have the situation where one of our support helicopter units - 18 squadron appears to be claiming that the Chinook is a bomber, while 13 (sorry, XIII) and 39 can't use the suffix 'R' because it'd mean that they're pretending to be a training squadron, rather than conducting recce (and 39(ISA) Squadron, to use the JDP0-30 acronym for recce, makes them look like a type of bank account). Which is why the crusty old types on the Air Council back in the 1950s might, just might, have been right, but they are now forgotten and largely ignored.

You will, therefore, see references to LXX and CXX, and V(AC), as well as 1(F), 3(F), XI(F) and so on. Which brings me to my final point which - while admiring the tradition (and, indeed, perpetuating it myself more times than I care to remember) gives you a hint as to why I think their Airships shouldn't be condemned for attempting to impose a degree of uniformity though this example, which I observed first hand. it goes like this.

When 5 Squadron (to give it the title the Air Force Board - as the Air Council had become - was officially happy with) flew the Tornado F3, the use of the Roman numeral became more common on the squadron (thinking about it, it may even have resumed after a period of hiatus) - ultimately, when the Sentinel became the squadron's equipment, the new boss, Wing Commander Kennels ( it wasn't quite Harry's surname, but since RAF News said it was it seemed rude not to rename him...) added the (AC) to the Roman numeral, which is why it is so often seen referred to as V(AC) Squadron online and in magazines these days. But this is to get ahead of the story.

While the squadron was still operating the mighty F3, the RAF's telephony services were contracted out to a civilian organisation - which led to the following (simplified and slightly addled by memory) exchange between a former colleague and the Directory Enquiries girl:

FC: Could you put me through to Five, squadron, please?

DEG: One moment, please.

<Long pause>

DEG: (mildly flustered) I'm sorry sir, I don't think that there is a Five squadron.

FC: Er... Sorry, but I'm sure there is.

DEG: (after shorter pause; apologetic) No, sir, sorry, I don't have it listed.

FC: Er... well I know that the squadron exists - my best man was posted to it a month ago.

DEG: Oh, er... ah... ummm.... Well, it's not in the directory, sir, I'm sorry.

FC: (Has brainwave) Well, could you tell me what you have got, please? I might be able to get in touch via one of them.

DEG: (Brightly) 'Yes, sir, of course. I have the numbers for One, Eye Eye Ay Cee, Three, Four, Vee, Si....

FC: (Interrupting) Give me Vee squadron, please. I think they might be able to help.

DEG: Putting you through...

The Air Council had not, of course, predicted the decline in the frequency with which Roman Numerals are taught in schools these days, but d'you see why I think this sort of proved their point...??

[Edit - re-reading this, it might appear that I'm claiming to have witnessed the Vee squadron part of the tale first hand; what I was attempting to do - but did badly because of correcting typos caused by fat fingers on an ipad - was to explain that I saw the evolution of 5 to V to V(AC); the directory enquiries tale comes from a mate who was in the room when the conversation occurred and who relayed it to me some years later when discussing privatisation and contractorisation in a *cough* fascinating Staff College syndicate; the person making the enquiry is known to me also and dimly remembers it.]

Edited by XV107
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That applied to the first 50 squadrons. A local ish unit to me is 7(F) in Aigburth south Liverpool. Other ATC units mirrored those of RAF units such as 610 (City of Chester).

Trevor

Actually they all have the locality, and the "F" is not in brackets :) eg "42F (Southampton) Sqn" iirc, or "73 (Huntingdon) Sqn" - unless of course it's changed since my day.

Second the recommendation above for Jefford's RAF Squadrons - it's an indispensible item on my bokshelf.

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That's the Air Cadets. :)

Some of the designators are wholly appropriate, and still are to the Sqn, as they've been broadly in the same role since their inception (although the use of 3(F) on the Harrier force must've been dubious! ;) ). Others could have had several - look at 16 (of course now an ® Sqn) - started as a AC unit, transferred to PR, and then spent most of the post war years as a tactical bomber Sqn!

Although is sometimes referred to as 101 (Special Duties) Sqn from the Ludford Magna years - do you know if this was ever an official title?

Oh yes ofc XD!

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