109 Sqn Typhoons

[Mark Proulx]

I see that a number of newer profiles indicate the "TP" codes of 198 Sqn Typhoons in MSG and not the previously considered, red.

While I understand that we may never know the definitive answer from BxW photography, what does the current preponderance of evidence say? Red or MSG.

Thanks for any views...

Mark Proulx

[Mark Proulx]

Oops! Typo in title. Title should read 198 Sqn...

Mark Proulx

[Chris Thomas]

This topic has been debated at length at least 3 times on this website. A search should reveal the posts. Opinions differ but personally I believe the 'red' letters were a bit of wishful thinking and the darker codes were a result of repainting codes after removal of D-Day stripes, possibly in MSG. Having spoken to several squadron members from the relevant period I am convinced they were not red.

CT

[Edgar]

This caption accompanied a photo of a 198 Squadron Typhoon, in a 1970 IPMS magazine, and this is where my involvement in this thread ends, since there have been far too many heated exchanges over this subject, and I very much doubt that "Laurie Robinson" is still alive.

Edgar

[Mark Proulx]

Please, I am not trying to stir up a heated debate. I am well aware of the controversy. I am just interested to learn if any new information has lead opinions to be swayed one way or another...

For both Chris and Edgar, I appreciate your replies and thank you for chiming in as I respect both your opinions on this and other threads.

Mark Proulx

[Troy Smith]

This caption accompanied a photo of a 198 Squadron Typhoon, in a 1970 IPMS magazine, and this is where my involvement in this thread ends, since there have been far too many heated exchanges over this subject, and I very much doubt that "Laurie Robinson" is still alive.

Edgar

This is a relevant detail

from http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/2816-hawker-typhoon-wheel-wells/#entry31954

Laurie Robinson, an IPMS member, in 1980, made public a walk-round, that he did, on a Typhoon, of 189 Squadron, in June 1944, when he made meticulous notes.

Edgar

here's one other

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/22894-typhoon-tp-f-198-squadron-if-fate-decrees/

The only "genuine" reference to the red codes came in an IPMS(UK) magazine, around 1970, and was written by a former Squadron member (Laurie Robinson, I think.) As well as saying that the Squadron codes(only; the individual letter was sky) were red, he went into great detail, on one particular airframe, saying that the area under the bubble canopy was black, wheel wells were silver, and the wings still carried the original Typhoon black/white stripes, not the D-day stripes. The spinner was red, not sky, and the individual letter was repeated, in sky, on the fin. With the detail, into which he went, I find it difficult to believe that he would have suffered with colour-blindness on the codes, only. There are also one or two photos, in the Imperial War Museum's files, where it can be seen that the Squadron codes are noticeably darker than the individual letter. Somebody said that it could have been caused by the dust, but I can't see chalk dust making codes darker, somehow. This begs the question "Why red?" I have seen a photo, of a 609 Squadron Typhoon, with a half-red spinner. Both Squadrons were based on Thorney Island for the three months up to D-day, so would they have used red, somewhere on the a/c, to keep AA gunners itchy fingers off their triggers? And why hang on to the old stripes, when other Squadrons had removed theirs?

From the 198 Squadron Association website:

Quote

AIRCRAFT RB222 (TP.F)

For some unknown reason over the years the Hawker Typhoon serial number RB222 has been associated with an aircraft supposedly flown by 198 Squadron during August 1944 as TP.F. Frequent references can be found in paintings, model kits, and publications as if to confirm this, however this website can find no record of the aircraft ever serving with 198. According to our information RB222 was one of 255 Hawker Typhoons delivered to the RAF between September 1944 and January 1945 and was flown by 183 Squadron RAF as HF.K.

RED SQUADRON CODE LETTERS, JULY/AUGUST 1944

This website can find no evidence to support the claim that 198 Squadron RAF used red code letters on its aircraft for a few weeks sometime over July/August 1944. 198's Commanding Officer at the time of these claimed changes was Sqn/Ldr Y. Ezanno (June 1944 to October 1944) and he was asked many years ago by the Director of the Bayeux Museum, in Normandy, France, if the colour had been changed to red and he is quoted as replying with a definite "NO".

Sqn/Ldr Ezanno was subsequently killed in a motoring accident during 1996 but since then this website has twice approached surviving 198 Squadron veterans and asked the same question. With slight variations those asked came back with either "no recollection of any red code letters during July/August 1944" or more specifically recalled the code letters as being of varying shades between "dirty white" and "greyish" in colour during the time in question.

Link

the above is from here, http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/22894-typhoon-tp-f-198-squadron-if-fate-decrees/#entry250473

looking on the 198 sq site, I can't find the above quote.

pics in question

there are more I think.