1/48 British heavies- why overdue?

[3DStewart]

The original question was why overdue? I don't think they are ever going to happen. There are lots of reasons: not glamorous enough, not decisive enough, not technically interesting enough, not featured in other media enough, not currently flying enough, not close to our own time enough, not cheap enough; all leading to the killer reason, not profitable enough.

If having a comprehensive collection of WWII British bombers is really important to you then switch scale, it's the only way you'll achieve it.

Stewart

Edited May 7, 2014 by 3DStewart

[blueliner]

I agree that would make much more sense and I would grab them both.

I'd rather have a 1/48 Vulcan .

[robvulcan]

I'd rather have a 1/48 Vulcan .

I would like ago at one too

[chaddy]

The original question was why overdue? I don't think they are ever going to happen. There are lots of reasons: not glamorous enough, not decisive enough, not technically interesting enough, not featured in other media enough, not currently flying enough, not close to our own time enough, not cheap enough; all leading to the killer reason, not profitable enough.

If having a comprehensive collection of WWII British bombers is really important to you then switch scale, it's the only way you'll achieve it.

Stewart

Well I might agree with you in that the kits may never happen, but the reasons you give are mostly spurious. Just taking one (current) example, which of the "NOTS" above apply to the new Airfix Tyhoon?

Not glamorous enough?

Not decisive enough?

Not technically interesting enough?

Not featured in other media enough?

Not currently flying enough?

Not close to our own time enough?

Yet here we are with a 1/24 model of a 70+ year old aircraft, which is relatively unknown to the general public, not currently flying, and hardly "glamorous" (when compared to some aircraft). I'm pretty certain that based on your criteria it would never have got out of Airfix's starting blocks.

[woody37]

I believe they will happen, lets all club together with those positive waves!!!!!

[gingerbob]

Oh no! I imagined that the gear legs on the Stirling were 1/8" too short! sorry

bob

[3DStewart]

Well I might agree with you in that the kits may never happen, but the reasons you give are mostly spurious. Just taking one (current) example, which of the "NOTS" above apply to the new Airfix Tyhoon?

Not glamorous enough?

Not decisive enough?

Not technically interesting enough?

Not featured in other media enough?

Not currently flying enough?

Not close to our own time enough?

Yet here we are with a 1/24 model of a 70+ year old aircraft, which is relatively unknown to the general public, not currently flying, and hardly "glamorous" (when compared to some aircraft). I'm pretty certain that based on your criteria it would never have got out of Airfix's starting blocks.

I don't think my reasons are spurious, though I have to admit that I was surprised when Airfix announced their 1:24 Typhoon, which as you say meets most of my criteria for not being made. Although I suggest that the treatment they've given it isn't what you would expect in a mainstream 1:48 kit, meaning it's aimed at a different market. It will be interesting to see how it fares.

Stewart

Edited May 8, 2014 by 3DStewart

[chaddy]

I don't think my reasons are spurious, though I have to admit that I was surprised when Airfix announced their 1:24 Typhoon, which as you say meets most of my criteria for not being made. Although I suggest that the treatment they've given it isn't what you would expect in a mainstream 1:48 kit, meaning it's aimed at a different market. It will be interesting to see how it fares.

Stewart

I think you and will just have to agree to disagree over this.

If your criteria were to be applied by all manufactures over all scales (and there is no reason why it shouldn't, since the space taken up a model seems to be missing from your criteria) we would be restricted to a diet of Spitfires, Mustangs and modern day jets. Where would be the Javelin, Vampire, Swordfish, Sabre, WW1 aircraft, etc, etc. They all fall into your criteria. The truth is that people model different aircraft of different eras for all sorts of reasons, and obviously there is a market for old, no longer flying, half-forgotten aircraft. Otherwise kit manufacturers would not still be producing them.

Obviously modellers prefer differing scales for varying reasons, but I'll wager there are many 1/72 modellers looking at the new Typhoon and wondering if they can shoehorn one in somewhere, just for the pleasure of building it. Yes it's market will be smaller than 1/72 and 1/48, but if it makes a profit eventually Airfix will do another large scale model. Personally I see an Airfix 1/48 Lancaster as a no brainer; it would definitely sell. As to others Halifax, Stirling, etc I don't know, but presumably if Airfix believed the market was there there, they would be a possibility.

[venomvixen]

You said "All about the bucks people, pure and simple." I merely pointed out that expensive kits do sell, highlighting that it is not just about the money. I then queried what is expensive, a Tamiya Spit at £100+ or a HK B-17 at £250?……. if this is your benchmark of expensive, depends on your POV ……. but hey, there are many more expensive kits out there I could have mentioned.

Thankfully for us it is not just about the cost and that there are manufacturers out there willing to take a gamble to produce kits that folks like me want.

You've completely missed my point again so I'll give it a miss.

[Guest]

It would be interesting how the model companies calculate cost effectiveness and potential profit. There are myriad subjects to model. Kitty Hawk will be releasing a new tool F2H Banshee and has a F-101 A/C Voodoo coming out soon also. Of course these are fighters and don't take up the space a big four engined heavy does and more importantly they are "safe" subjects to model with no other companies producing their like. My point being, it is probably more cost effective and profitable to do the smaller subjects that have a higher appeal to a larger segment of the buying public. I have no doubt there is a market for the bigger subjects but the manufacturers have to take into account demand, especially in the US market, and as we know the US economy is not exactly booming, The discretionary dollar/pound is not in abundance for most of us, especially in the US where inflation is becoming similar to that of the 1970's. That being said, there is no doubt that Tamiya and others must really assess the profitability of a big kit, but then we have Trumpeter. A believe that just about anything is possible with that company, which like all Chinese companies that have entered new markets are government subsidized, so immediate profitability is of no concern. If there is any company that could release a big four engined bomber without much worry about high profitability it is Trumpeter. I have a friend in the hobby distribution business and he says that the Trumpeter FW 200 and Wellington bombers sell well with both kits in the 70.00 to 90.00 range. So, there is limited demand for the heavies / big subjects out there, but we have to just wait and see. I have no doubt that Trumpeter monitors the modeling sites to assess demand. I for one would buy a Halifax kit, I just don't know where I will put it. The moral of the story is, be patient, kits I never thought would ever be produced have been showing up these last ten years, your dream kit might be just a few months away.

Cheers

[Radpoe Spitfire]

Well I might agree with you in that the kits may never happen, but the reasons you give are mostly spurious. Just taking one (current) example, which of the "NOTS" above apply to the new Airfix Tyhoon?

Not glamorous enough?

Not decisive enough?

Not technically interesting enough?

Not featured in other media enough?

Not currently flying enough?

Not close to our own time enough?

Yet here we are with a 1/24 model of a 70+ year old aircraft, which is relatively unknown to the general public, not currently flying, and hardly "glamorous" (when compared to some aircraft). I'm pretty certain that based on your criteria it would never have got out of Airfix's starting blocks.

Don't forget it was almost grounded permanently due to its intial problems

[3DStewart]

I see that elsewhere on Britmodeller there's notification of Amazon heavily discounting the Airfix 1:24 Typhoon even before it's released!

Edited May 10, 2014 by 3DStewart

[Work In Progress]

Amazon may be the channel but the retailer is Airfix itself, which is even more suggestive of nervousness about the sales potential.

[gingerbob]

I don't think they'd get to this stage and then suddenly panic that they might not sell them. Well, some might feel a bit of nervous tension, but I don't think the company in general will be having second thoughts.

bob

[chaddy]

Amazon may be the channel but the retailer is Airfix itself, which is even more suggestive of nervousness about the sales potential.

Let's be clear; this is not being sold by Airfix. It's sold and dispatched by Amazon. They are offering Free Super Saver Delivery, which only applies to products sold or fulfilled by Amazon.

[stravinsk75]

Don't be silly. People only want to make F-16s and Spitfires... (Sarcasm my apologies)

I would love to see these kits issued. Especially a 1/48th Stirling. I must say though I am happy with 1/72 scale but Plenty people have the space and I could find the space if one come out.

I am surprised there has not been more kits. But to be fair I think we are on the dawn of a new Golden era in models.

I used to fear model making was on the decline.

As A guitar teacher I am pleased to report that nearly every child I have taught is into making model kits and they are interested in older planes like the spit, lanc, vulcan, tsr-2 because they look cool. They see Model making , Computer games, Music, Sport as equal options for entertainment.

Were as my generation seemed to see Computer games as the be all and end all.

With the Success of Airfix's Lancaster I would be surprised if they did not follow it up with the others in the same scale and then who knows in the future we may get 48TH versions.

I guess its as much up to us to actively tell Manufactures what we want rather than just waiting like silent fishermen for a bite.

I appreciate your optimism, but I'm afraid I am going to have to stick with your initial pessimism...

I do not see where are those kids you mention, those that are more interested in "everything" equally: This is not what I observe in North America, to put it mildly, and, except for the former Eastern Block countries, it must be a British or Japanese phenomenon if these kids exist at all... If you want to see another area of decline, look at the local bookshop in North America: They are rapidly disappearing, and the big giant chain bookstores, the very ones that contributed to killing the small bookstores off, these are now turning half their floor space to interior decoration, computer tablets, lamps, cushions, mugs, plates and wineglasses: It is a disgrace...

People who do not encounter books on a regular basis are not likely to read more, or encounter unexpected ideas, and they are certainly not likely to take up a slow, difficult, methodical, historical-minded hobby like modelling... The evidence is abundantly clear: People who do not build models as youngsters will not take it up as adults... I have yet to see the slightlest evidence to the contrary, and this means the hobby is inevitably headed for serious decline, especially outside the peculiar countries that are the exception that confirm this overall rule...

That being said, the idea that, in this declining industry (runs that used to be of 50 000-100 000 are now considered stunning successes at 14 000...), the idea that executives of modelling companies have any clue what modelling is all about is rather fantastical: They have no interest at all in modelling, just in the unconscious desires of what they know is an aging demographic: They all jumped on the 1/32 bandwagon at Tamiya's prompting (with Tamiya's Zero in 1999) and that is the main reason 1/48th scale WWII has been in such a precipitous decline ever since (Hasegawa has abandoned 1/48th WWII completely a full five years ago, to no one's notice apparently, concentrating mainly on superb 1/350 scale ships instead, and Tamiya has produced one (poor effort) in that period: Fourteen years ago, they both averaged two or three all-new tools a year in 1/48th).

1/32 will remain the dominating scale (now partenered with the even more exclusive 1/24) because it is a great scale for blocking off new teenage modellers, which manufacturers have finally figured out is the scale's main attraction, and what the aging demographics of today really wants (if unconsciously): Adult-level bucks, for adult-level sizes: Make sure the kids are kept out of it. For sure no one will confuse them with begginers when they are done (and who cares if that is never?)...

Personally, I think most of these large kits look terrible because of the insufficient surface details (and the builder's finishing skills) which are often not up to the huge leap in size (most people don't realize that it is well over a tripling of the internal volume from 1/48th to 1/32)... But hey, it's a subconscious want we are dealing with here, and I guess that is what self indulgence does to you...

The main problem with 1/48th is that it is way too inclusive, even for giant four engine bombers: That is why you will see all the british bombers done in 1/32 long, long, looong before you will see any of them done in 1/48th (which will probably be never).

And just as those absurd $400 1/32 kits will keep being pumped out at us (the Lancaster is already incoming), you will hear people say, in the very same breath, how 1/48th is too expensive and too bulky, the research too expensive, and that if they don't make them it's because there is no market for it...

As for that last paragraph, don't ask me...

J.

[woody37]

Going by the main activity of Airfix, some of your comments above are contrary. Airfix in the UK seem to be returning to providing affordable 1/72 & 1/48 kits en mass and making them very accessible locally, so they certainly aren't trying to exclude children, quite the opposite. However that supports your statement that we need to get young people modelling if the hobby is to continue in the next generation.

I recently run a school club (as several others have done on here) using the Airfix sets that they make available for schools and it went down incredibly well. Several of the kids were already actively making models in their own time and we had to pull names out of a hat such was the popularity of the club. Bringing the hobby to our youngsters is a great way that we can help its longevity

[stravinsk75]

Yes, Airfix is bucking every trend, even to the extent of not being all over the 1/32 bandwagon! Airfix and Zvezda are two makers to watch! But they are definitely the exception, as may be the UK as a whole... Many of the new Airfix 1/72 kits are excellent and cheap. 1/48th hasn't been so lucky with them, but with their recent P.R. XIX and Javelin, that is getting better. They should upsize their Lancaster to 1/48th with the CAD data.

J.