1/48 British heavies- why overdue?

[Jennings Heilig]

For better or worse, RAF heavies come in exactly one color scheme: sand & spinach. And RAF nose art was nowhere near as elaborate as USAAF nose art. I just don't see the huge market out there. Tamiya kept the Lanc tooling on the shelf for 25+ years, so that should tell you something.

[Dave Fleming]

I

The technology, demand & markets for them are all there. Other than a Stirling, examples of real Halifax and Lancaster are readily available.

So how do you folks out there feel?

The fact they haven't been done suggests that the demand and market for them is not there.

The fact that Trumpeter hasn't touched another large, non-fighter RAF subject after the Wellington points to it not being a great seller.

T

[Julien]

Perhaps a little off topic, but does anyone know how many Airfix 1/24 Mosquitos were produced/sold? I get the feeling that it was something of a success, but am I correct? Surely an Airfix 1/48 Lancaster to rival Tamiya on price and accuracy must stand a chance?

They did 3 production runs to keep up with demand.

Now I have only seen enough at shows to count on one hand!

So where is the market we have to ask? not people who goto forums and or shows?

Prices went as low as about £60 at one stage, now try getting one for less than rrp at best.

Not sure if there is a market for 1.48 heavies? as has been pointed out colour schemes are kind of limited, though with the lanc you have a fair few post war users to contemplate?

Julien

[Radpoe Spitfire]

I cannot agree with the sand spinach argument entirely, there are Far East and search and rescue schemes for the RAF, France's aeronavale scheme and quite a significant amount of RAF nose art aircraft.

However the only real answer pehaps lies in feedback from modellers to the producers.

[Alan Kelley]

They did 3 production runs to keep up with demand.Now I have only seen enough at shows to count on one hand!So where is the market we have to ask? not people who goto forums and or shows?Prices went as low as about £60 at one stage, now try getting one for less than rrp at best.Not sure if there is a market for 1.48 heavies? as has been pointed out colour schemes are kind of limited, though with the lanc you have a fair few post war users to contemplate?Julien

I remember all the clamour and excitement when Dragon/Cyberhobby did their Bf110 family in 1/48. A beautiful kit but I have yet to see anyone build one.

[robvulcan]

Don't be silly. People only want to make F-16s and Spitfires... (Sarcasm my apologies)

I would love to see these kits issued. Especially a 1/48th Stirling. I must say though I am happy with 1/72 scale but Plenty people have the space and I could find the space if one come out.

I am surprised there has not been more kits. But to be fair I think we are on the dawn of a new Golden era in models.

I used to fear model making was on the decline. As I am from the generation that seemed to only like Computer Games and football in the days just before the internet became such a widely used thing. It seemed that Model making was on the decline and this as far as I could see was reflected in that if you wanted a mainstream kit you would in the main only get more well known subjects or old kits that already existed of such things as the stirling.

If you wanted something else you would look to vac forms etc. Thats how it seemed to me as a kid in the 90s.

In the last decade though. The internet for all its good and bad points has allowed ordinary folk a huge means of expression be in youtube videos, facebook, forums like this, email, own websites, SIGs and shows etc to be well publicized.

This did not happen before and I think its allowed kit manufactures to now have more confidence in realizing that there really is a market there for all these subjects and it also spans every generation from children to adults who all want to make a model of a TSR-2, Valiant, Sea Vixen, Lancaster, ETC... All kits I Did not think would ever be released. I think the internet is to thank for this.

As A guitar teacher I am pleased to report that nearly every child I have taught is into making model kits and they are interested in older planes like the spit, lanc, vulcan, tsr-2 because they look cool. They see Model making , Computer games, Music, Sport as equal options for entertainment.

Were as my generation seemed to see Computer games as the be all and end all. I am glad that has come to pass.

So my prediction is that in time we will see these things released especially as we hopefully soon get out of the World Wide Financial crisis and Wars which we currently are going through which make it even more amazing we have seen certain kits appear.

With the Success of Airfix's Lancaster I would be surprised if they did not follow it up with the others in the same scale and then who knows in the future we may get 48TH versions.

I guess its as much up to us to actively tell Manufactures what we want rather than just waiting like silent fishermen for a bite.

[chaddy]

They did 3 production runs to keep up with demand.

Now I have only seen enough at shows to count on one hand!

So where is the market we have to ask? not people who goto forums and or shows?

Prices went as low as about £60 at one stage, now try getting one for less than rrp at best.

Not sure if there is a market for 1.48 heavies? as has been pointed out colour schemes are kind of limited, though with the lanc you have a fair few post war users to contemplate?

Julien

What I'm driving at is this. Was it a leap of faith on Airfix's part or did they indeed decide there was a market? Let's be honest, the vast majority of modellers do not go to shows nor even forums. I also suspect the vast majority do not even belong to a club.

I'm inclined to discount the "sand and spinach" argument, particularly in relation to the Lancaster. That particular aircraft served with a number of overseas airforces in a number of colour schemes. Also there are ample examples of nose art to satisfy most modellers.

Also Airfix have there current 1/72 offering to go on as an example. That has already spawned three releases; four if you count the "standard" early BI/BIII version that can be built. They stack up well against Tamiya's 1/48 releases and there is no reason why Airfix might not adopt a similar strategy. I can't help feeling that if Airfix can turn a buck out of some of their current crop of 1/48 releases then a Lancaster would be a no brainer.

Edited May 4, 2014 by chaddy

[Radpoe Spitfire]

Don't be silly. People only want to make F-16s and Spitfires... (Sarcasm my apologies)

I would love to see these kits issued. Especially a 1/48th Stirling. I must say though I am happy with 1/72 scale but Plenty people have the space and I could find the space if one come out.

I am surprised there has not been more kits. But to be fair I think we are on the dawn of a new Golden era in models.

I used to fear model making was on the decline. As I am from the generation that seemed to only like Computer Games and football in the days just before the internet became such a widely used thing. It seemed that Model making was on the decline and this as far as I could see was reflected in that if you wanted a mainstream kit you would in the main only get more well known subjects or old kits that already existed of such things as the stirling.

If you wanted something else you would look to vac forms etc. Thats how it seemed to me as a kid in the 90s.

In the last decade though. The internet for all its good and bad points has allowed ordinary folk a huge means of expression be in youtube videos, facebook, forums like this, email, own websites, SIGs and shows etc to be well publicized.

This did not happen before and I think its allowed kit manufactures to now have more confidence in realizing that there really is a market there for all these subjects and it also spans every generation from children to adults who all want to make a model of a TSR-2, Valiant, Sea Vixen, Lancaster, ETC... All kits I Did not think would ever be released. I think the internet is to thank for this.

As A guitar teacher I am pleased to report that nearly every child I have taught is into making model kits and they are interested in older planes like the spit, lanc, vulcan, tsr-2 because they look cool. They see Model making , Computer games, Music, Sport as equal options for entertainment.

Were as my generation seemed to see Computer games as the be all and end all. I am glad that has come to pass.

So my prediction is that in time we will see these things released especially as we hopefully soon get out of the World Wide Financial crisis and Wars which we currently are going through which make it even more amazing we have seen certain kits appear.

With the Success of Airfix's Lancaster I would be surprised if they did not follow it up with the others in the same scale and then who knows in the future we may get 48TH versions.

I guess its as much up to us to actively tell Manufactures what we want rather than just waiting like silent fishermen for a bite.

I'm inclined to agree with many of your comments and the new golden age for modelling.

In over 40years the last decade has seen kits of scale and subject released not dreamt about even 10-20 years ago. This isn't just the case for aircraft, MV's, Maritime & vehicles have such a spectrum of kits.

Far from a dying art, it is thriving, for those who don't remember the problems encounters by companies like Airfix in The 1980's recession, it was so negative, whereas through this one it's been a case of boldness be my guide.

The argument of they won't do it because they've beaten us to it doesn't ring true either, quite the opposite in some cases, Airfix re tooled the lancaster after Revell & Hasegawa's releases & thier Valiant came soon after Mach2's limited release.

Given some manufactures have up scaled kits, there is potential to do this with the heavy's in 1/48.

Edited May 4, 2014 by Radpoe Spitfire

[robvulcan]

I'm inclined to agree with many of your comments and the new golden age for modelling.

In over 40years the last decade has seen kits of scale and subject released not dreamt about even 10-20 years ago. This isn't just the case for aircraft, MV's, Maritime & vehicles have such a spectrum of kits.

Far from a dying art, it is thriving, for those who don't remember the problems encounters by companies like Airfix in The 1980's recession, it was so negative, whereas through this one it's been a case of boldness be my guide.

The argument of they won't do it because they've beaten us to it doesn't ring true either, quite the opposite in some cases, Airfix re tooled the lancaster after Revell & Hasegawa's releases & thier Valiant came soon after Mach2's limited release.

Given some manufactures have up scaled kits, there is potential to do this with the heavy's in 1/48.

Well its good to hear its not just Aircraft. I could not comment on ships and armour but it does sure seem to be popular as does Sci-Fi. I am glad to see Star Trek Kits returning they are another of my faves. Love the Ships from Trek. Which reminds me I really need to get my Excelsior out the loft and built.

Cheers Rob

[Guest]

Let's not forget the two very important factors that have an effect on sales of bigger scale/larger kits. First would be price. If The Sea Vixen and the Javelin are going for 50.00 usd, then a 1/48 RAF heavy would have to be close to, if not more than 100.00. That is a big chunk of money. As was mentioned earlier a Tamiya Spitfire on ebay can be purchased, including shipping for under 20.00 and has more appeal due to price and my next point, shelf space. Let's face it, with the exception of us hard core modelers who would relish a Halifax, Sterling, and maybe another Lanc, bombers of this size take up a lot of room, unless some of you have a separate house just for modeling. I had a 1/48 B-29 and it took up enough room to display 8 to10 1/48 scale fighters. I think a lot of us look at many kits thinking "I really need that to fill out my collection" and we justify buying it, then it sits in our closet for however many years (unless we are really passionate about the subject like my RAF Ventura and start it right away) until we decide to either sell it on Ebay or bring it to the local kit convention for sale, or we just "kick off" and our wives sell them off at an estate sale. As for WWII kits and their popularity, most of us had dad's or grand fathers, uncles, etc who fought in the war, so we have a deep connection with that conflict. Many of us, like myself, taught our kids about the importance of that conflict and brought our kids to air shows, museums and shown them various videos/DVD's about the war. Even though I am a Yank (with a British dad from Blackpool) my 20 year old son's favorite movie is B of B and he out models me by a mile. I know he will pass this hobby down to his sons and daughters. All five of my kids build models. My point is, as long as we keep the traditions and history alive through modeling there will always be a market for models, and WWII kits will always sell. I think as modelers our hearts are sometimes bigger than our heads, and pocketbooks!

Cheers

[Radpoe Spitfire]

My first Tamiya Lancaster was £18, they now retail at around £90, part of which is due to it being the only kit in that scale, while their spitfire has to compete with dozens.

It seems daft that we seem to sit back and wait for what is released then do a lot of grumbling "cos the kit we want is not one of them".

I know they can't produce everything we ask for, but many of the new offerings have come about because we keep doing so.

[Radpoe Spitfire]

Well its good to hear its not just Aircraft. I could not comment on ships and armour but it does sure seem to be popular as does Sci-Fi. I am glad to see Star Trek Kits returning they are another of my faves. Love the Ships from Trek. Which reminds me I really need to get my Excelsior out the loft and built.

Cheers Rob [/quote

Hi Rob, I've never seen so many ships in1/350 scale, likewise it seems there's more scale armour than owned by museums and MV owners put together.

There is a definite trend towards bigger scales then ever, which isn't a bad thing.

Cheers Adrian

[Alan Kelley]

On a side note, isn't it great to see Airfix rising again? For too many years they had became almost a joke, but their new releases are cracking kits. I have bought quite a few recently and am salivating at the though of the new Typhoon.

[robvulcan]

Well its good to hear its not just Aircraft. I could not comment on ships and armour but it does sure seem to be popular as does Sci-Fi. I am glad to see Star Trek Kits returning they are another of my faves. Love the Ships from Trek. Which reminds me I really need to get my Excelsior out the loft and built.

Cheers Rob [/quote

Hi Rob, I've never seen so many ships in1/350 scale, likewise it seems there's more scale armour than owned by museums and MV owners put together.

There is a definite trend towards bigger scales then ever, which isn't a bad thing.

Cheers Adrian

I think this is because people desire to own one big centre piece of their collection now. Also because model making has become more commonly accepted as a hobby/job/industry for all ages and not just something for kids which many of us had to fight judgement of from others.

With that also again the Internet and forums seem to have made this a much more open social hobby were people want to make a big model to take to display and catch up with buddies and aint that great. Much different to the model making of 20 years ago for me when It was all about something to do on your own in a caravan on holiday in wales when it was raining. (Still good to do that too)

I would love to see Airfix do a 1/24th Tornado GR1 That would be a great centre piece to my collection. Be great to have a 48th Lanc flying over it too.

[Work In Progress]

They would be *vastly* smarter to do a new, accurate Halifax and Stirling in 1/72 than in 1/48.

[robvulcan]

They would be *vastly* smarter to do a new, accurate Halifax and Stirling in 1/72 than in 1/48.

I agree that would make much more sense and I would grab them both.

[gingerbob]

Now I have only seen enough [1/24 Mosquitos] at shows to count on one hand!

So where is the market we have to ask? not people who goto forums and or shows?

I've seen one built at a show here in the US, but I don't think that's a very good indicator. First of all, it would be a pain to transport to and from the show!

Other people have commented about us buying big kits and then having them sit in our stashes. I don't think it matters to the model companies whether we actually BUILD them or not! Certainly they're not going to imagine us buying multiples of these big kits, so whether the box sits in a closet or the kit stands proudly displayed matters not- they've sold us one, either way.

... As was mentioned earlier a Tamiya Spitfire on ebay can be purchased, including shipping for under 20.00

Oh, if only you were talking about 1/32 ones!

On a side note, isn't it great to see Airfix rising again? For too many years they had became almost a joke, but their new releases are cracking kits. I have bought quite a few recently and am salivating at the though of the new Typhoon.

Yes, it IS great. Being a Yank, I didn't get the sentimental attachment to the brand that some of you did, but it is refreshing to see a kit maker apparently going from strength to strength. I'm not particularly lustful about that Typhoon (which doesn't mean I'm not happy about the project), but they've caused me to get enthusiastic about some 1/72nd (biplanes, for God's sake!), as well as the 48th stuff. As it happens I have one of the giant Mossies, but only because someone made me an offer I couldn't refuse- I can't imagine building the darn thing!

bob

[Radpoe Spitfire]

They would be *vastly* smarter to do a new, accurate Halifax and Stirling in 1/72 than in 1/48.

If I'm honest, I cannot disagree with you myself, but I do like 1/48th, I have a B17 done as "Bit o'Lace", B24 in the stash & the Halifax displayed in a museum.

[regulus]

Is not Italeri proceeding with the 1/72 Stirling announced last year?

[Alan Kelley]

Is not Italeri proceeding with the 1/72 Stirling announced last year?

If it has the same panel treatment as the Sunderland I will be avoiding it like the plaque. If there is 1 plane I would love to see given a modern makeover then it would be the Stirling- I have a bit of a sentimental attachement to them being brought up only a few miles from where they were built in Belfast.

[Giorgio N]

This is one of those topic that gets discussed from time to time: why don't companies make models of (insert subject), there sure is a great demand !

But really there's been only a small number of 1/48 large bombers released over the decades.. if those who made them had large success, don't you think that they would have done more of the same ??

Monogram did all 3 US heavies many, many years ago and then nobody even in the US ever bothered doing them again. Tamiya did the Lancaster again a few decades ago and then never bothered with another 4 engined bomber.. guess that if the Lancaster had been their best seller they'd have added another kit of something similar, wouldn't everybody do the same ?

These are all subjects of limited appeal compared to the millionth Spitfire of Bf-109 or F-16, they involve large tools that need large upfront investments, investments that might need time to be recovered. A company might still make one once in a while as a "flagship" product, a bit like Airfix did with the 1/24 Mosquito, but it would be foolish to expect that a company could survive and make profit with a catalogue made of 1/48 bombers.

Oh but HK did a 1/32 B-17 and a Lancaster... fine, but HK is just a newcomer, let's wait a few years before we judge if they're doing right. I've seen so many companies coming and going before...

A 1/48 Halifax or even worse a Stirling would be a good subject for a short run manufacturer, in the same way as a 1/48 He.177 only ever appeared from one of these manufacturers. FM did the Halifax, maybe someone else will do the Stirling. However I'm sure that if this is released some will complain that it's not a mainstream product and it's too expensive...

[tomprobert]

But really there's been only a small number of 1/48 large bombers released over the decades.. if those who made them had large success, don't you think that they would have done more of the same ??

You make a fair point here, but the only companies who have had a go at releasing 1/48th (Tamiya and Trumpeter aside) bombers have been short run companies such as Fonderie or vacform manufacturers such as Contrail and Sanger.

For a majority of modellers these options are not really viable, and require a fair bit of skill and experience, not to mention dedication to get them together! They haven't sold well for that very reason - many of us I'm sure have read/seen the horror stories regarding the FM Halifax or Sanger's Stirling... and have been well and truly put off.

I personally think that is a mainstream injection manufacturer would release a series of 1/48th RAF bombers they'd be snapped up, and it may even encourage others such as Tamiya to retool their Lancaster to tackle the increased competition (I can dream!) much like the battle we have going on with the 1/72nd Lancs

Tom

[Work In Progress]

If you really believe that then why not try crowdfunding it?

https://www.kickstarter.com/

[Giorgio N]

You make a fair point here, but the only companies who have had a go at releasing 1/48th (Tamiya and Trumpeter aside) bombers have been short run companies such as Fonderie or vacform manufacturers such as Contrail and Sanger.

For a majority of modellers these options are not really viable, and require a fair bit of skill and experience, not to mention dedication to get them together! They haven't sold well for that very reason - many of us I'm sure have read/seen the horror stories regarding the FM Halifax or Sanger's Stirling... and have been well and truly put off.

I personally think that is a mainstream injection manufacturer would release a series of 1/48th RAF bombers they'd be snapped up, and it may even encourage others such as Tamiya to retool their Lancaster to tackle the increased competition (I can dream!) much like the battle we have going on with the 1/72nd Lancs

Tom

Tom, I was thinking more of the mainstream manufacturers who have done this kind of models. Tamiya did the Lancaster and then nothing else.. there must have been a reason for this. Monogram did the 3 US heavies and the twin engined ones, they did the Mosquito but never bothered with anything else. Revell did a couple of types but really never followed them up. If the market was there, why didn't Tamiya follow the Lancaster up with some other bomber, say a B-17 ?

Large and expensive kits are never huge sellers, every model shop has the top shelves full of large boxes waiting to be picked up by an enthusiast or someone who wants to impress a kid with a large model, but it can take a long time to get rid of these. And any 1/48 4-engined type is not likely to cost much less than £100. For the same investment, most model companies would more likely make another 1/32 Tomcat rather than a 1/48 Stirling or an He-177.

[andrewfl290]

I don't see your point? your telling me kits are selling but your example is a Tamiya Spit?

Two of the most sure fire words to make money in this hobby are "Tamiya" and "Spitfire"

Tamiya is an absolute juggernaut in Japan (That's where they make their big bucks, not us) and everybody knows what a Spitfire is.

HK B-17 hasn't been around long enough and was already partially done by somebody else (If you believe the hype) so cant be used as

an accurate indicator.

For the record I would happily buy 48th Pom bombers if somebody made them, already have two Lanc's and a Halifax, but I'm not going to hold

my breath.

You said "All about the bucks people, pure and simple." I merely pointed out that expensive kits do sell, highlighting that it is not just about the money. I then queried what is expensive, a Tamiya Spit at £100+ or a HK B-17 at £250?……. if this is your benchmark of expensive, depends on your POV ……. but hey, there are many more expensive kits out there I could have mentioned.

Thankfully for us it is not just about the cost and that there are manufacturers out there willing to take a gamble to produce kits that folks like me want.