Bell 47/OH-13 Sioux

[Wolwe82]

Hey guys, i have still some builds on my work bench, but i was browsing e-shop for some paints and ofcourse, i could not skip the kits section. Went to helicopters and my eye spoted this one.. the italeri 1/72 Bell AH-1/AB-47 kit. (I dont like to use the AH-1, as it usualy brings thoughts to cobra) and at this moment i knew what i want to do.. Remembering the M*A*S*H tv series and this GB, there were no questions about
There was not other versions of this kit on stock, and i did not want to wait, so i ll use this version and get decals from spares and so, to make some apropriate marking I dont have the kit in my hands yet, just ordered PE eduard sheet, made for this kit and gathering reference photos.

The goal is to make the "medical" version (not exactly from the TV serie as it would be kind of what-if i see), so i wanted to ask here, if anyone know about some good source of photos or some decals 1/72, where the M*A*S*H version is included? I ll do some research myself, but still asking doesnt cost anything
I ll get the kit at wednesday, i hope you dont mind me opening this topic a bit earlier, i m just so excited to build this little one

[Procopius]

[Brews]

Hey guys, i have still some builds on my work bench, but i was browsing e-shop for some paints and ofcourse, i could not skip the kits section. Went to helicopters and my eye spoted this one.. the italeri 1/72 Bell AH-1/AB-47 kit. (I dont like to use the AH-1, as it usualy brings thoughts to cobra) and at this moment i knew what i want to do.. Remembering the M*A*S*H tv series and this GB, there were no questions about

There was not other versions of this kit on stock, and i did not want to wait, so i ll use this version and get decals from spares and so, to make some apropriate marking I dont have the kit in my hands yet, just ordered PE eduard sheet, made for this kit and gathering reference photos.

The goal is to make the "medical" version (not exactly from the TV serie as it would be kind of what-if i see), so i wanted to ask here, if anyone know about some good source of photos or some decals 1/72, where the M*A*S*H version is included? I ll do some research myself, but still asking doesnt cost anything

I ll get the kit at wednesday, i hope you dont mind me opening this topic a bit earlier, i m just so excited to build this little one

I'm not sure whether you're after photos of the real thing, or the M*A*S*H* chopper. Revell had the M*A*S*H* chopper (and other items) in 1:35 scale.

I built the Italeri kit many years ago, but I wasn't impressed with the thickness of the boom pieces. Pavla does one with PE, and I don't like the flatness of it. You're stuck between a rock and a hard place in 1:72 unless you scratch it out of brass wire or something, I think.

[Wolwe82]

Now i m more after the real chopper look I remember the revell M*A*S*H serie, though its almost impossible to get one these days (might try e-bay, yea), so i decided to give a go to the 1/72 But i like the sioux and M*A*S*H tv serie so if i ever get across the revells version, i m going for it too But for now, its going to be the "real" thingy
As for the thickness of the tail, yea i saw some images of built kits and its somehow thick. The eduards PE sheet contains the tail construction but as you said, the PE parts are too flat. So i m thinking about few options - else i can thinn the original italeri parts by sandpaper carefuly (ll take some time but after all this is the easiest option i think), or i can try and use some white glue or thick paint to "round" the PE parts a bit. Or, just use the PE parts as skelet and use half-rounded evergreen profiles on each side of the PE construction, to give it round look, filling the gap with superglue

[heloman1]

Sadly as above, the tail boom is clunky but then it's the only game in town. You'll have to take care fitting the canopy 'bubble' it need a fair amount of fitting, it fits where it touches! A good look rounfd Googelk should throw up soem pics.

There was a Canadian professor who ran a dedicated Bel 47 website with lot of pics of all the types and sub types but I think is now no longer up and ruunning. A pity as it was good.

Colin

[Wolwe82]

Thanks for the heads ups Colin I might get vacu canopy from my friend, who has it left from CMK detail set, but i ll see how that one ll fit there

[heloman1]

Thanks for the heads ups Colin I might get vacu canopy from my friend, who has it left from CMK detail set, but i ll see how that one ll fit there

If you can go for the vac canopy the kit one is quite thick.

Colin

[HOUSTON]

Looking forward to this project .

Most interesting .

[snapper_city]

Great chopper. Good luck in 1:72.

[SleeperService]

If you want to do the TV version then THIS may help, there is another from the front as well.

And courtesy of Way Back Machine HERE is the Canadian site mentioned above.

At least I think it's the same one.

Edited April 26, 2014 by SleeperService

[louiex2]

I recall reading an article about using the kit parts as a template to scratch build the tail boom out of brass rod. I think it was in Fine Scale Modeler but it's been years ago.

Edited April 27, 2014 by louiex2

[Nobby57]

Looks a good choice, if you can gently thin down the tubes and add the extra struts...but I dare say it doesn't really matter as I've seen some stunning models straight from the box.

With a little extra effort they look gorgeous, but then I'm biased. Look at Pappy's amazing work, for example, on this site, there's a build link too if it'll help.

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234921237-australian-army-bell-47g-sioux/

Doug Cohen's build more up your street...

http://www.scale-rotors.com/galerie/1-utility-helicopters/9894-bell-oh-13s-sioux-.html

An aside though; if anyone knows.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but having bought 2 to do RM machines (Aden and Borneo), I read somewhere that the boom is about 16mm too long. Having read this, and also reading that the bubble is the wrong shape for a Brit a/c, I've put them on the back burner/very dark place until I get more information.

However, I hope you enjoy your project and I know I'll like it.

Cheers,

Graham

[Wolwe82]

Thanks guys for all the helpful links and words - and i did not even start yet Now i hope i can finish the kit at least 10% as good as these linked above..

Also, as i was browsing net around for more info, i found there was kit of "gunship" version of Sioux, so i ll see, might get that one too if they ll have it on stock when i ll go for the first one Cannt wait to begin with the build already!!

Edited April 27, 2014 by Wolwe82

[SleeperService]

Looks a good choice, if you can gently thin down the tubes and add the extra struts...but I dare say it doesn't really matter as I've seen some stunning models straight from the box.

With a little extra effort they look gorgeous, but then I'm biased. Look at Pappy's amazing work, for example, on this site, there's a build link too if it'll help.

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234921237-australian-army-bell-47g-sioux/

Doug Cohen's build more up your street...

http://www.scale-rotors.com/galerie/1-utility-helicopters/9894-bell-oh-13s-sioux-.html

An aside though; if anyone knows.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but having bought 2 to do RM machines (Aden and Borneo), I read somewhere that the boom is about 16mm too long. Having read this, and also reading that the bubble is the wrong shape for a Brit a/c, I've put them on the back burner/very dark place until I get more information.

However, I hope you enjoy your project and I know I'll like it.

Cheers,

Graham

THIS ARTICLE suggests that the 48th boom is too long so I suspect that the 72nd will be the same. The author also notes other differences between models, but makes a nice job of the tail boom.

For such a simple craft there are a lot of details....

A bit OT but I seem to recall a float equipped 47 being used as a plane guard on carrier ops somewhere. Any ideas? Or are my medications still messing with my mind?

[Tomoshenko]

Excellent choice mate. Looking forward to this one.

[jean]

You must have very good eyes to tackle such a small model!!!!
Wish you all the best with the tail and the cockpit! Have fun

JR

[Wolwe82]

Thanks guys once again for all the support, i can see this ll be another nice experience here on BM

To Jean - hah yea, you are right. You know, i have to build such a small kits now, while my eyes works at least a bit yet..

On more serious note, i have question - i see here are many people with nice deep knowledge about korean war. So the question is - what version was used in the korean war? The thing is, there were some various fuel tanks (i did read both single and double-tanks version were used in korea?), but also, i did read today the various versions used diferent engines and had these engines mounted in slightly diferent positions.. So i would like to find out, what version should i build, so i know what references should i be looking for. Thanks if anyone can give me answer

[SleeperService]

Here you go scroll down to Model 47D and you'll see that the H-13E is, by far, the most common. THIS picture may help but I think it's a fake (the helicopter details should be good though). From memory the kit has a later turbo charged engine. The build linked to above from Scale Rotor will provide the rest.

[Wolwe82]

Awesome, that ll be big help, thanks a LOT! I see the 47D (at least these on the photos there) have the single fuel tank. On one hand its great, because i like it a bit more (it feels more "vintage", if i can use the word:) ), on the other hand i hope i can cut it somehow from something..

[Wolwe82]

So today i was in the city to get the ordered kits and other stuff. Long storry short, i got the Italeri kit (ok, i got two of them.... dont ask me why, its embarasing.. i just could not resist and want to make another, probably vietnam gunship version from the other kit), CMK resin set (decided to take whole new set, though there is a bit problem, ll explain later), Eduard PE set.

So now the problem with CMK resin set is, it does have "fuselage" with two seats only. But the D for korea should be 3 seaters. SO i guess i ll have to use the original fuselage, but then the vacu bubble wont fit it (the kit fuselage is a bit too wide for it on the quick checking), so i guess i ll use the CMK fuselage for gunship version later and just take some of the engine details for this one.

I ll have to make new fuel tank, as i would like to make the single fuel tank version. But the work ll begin with thinning of the original tail framing. I want to try that way first, if it wont work, i ll use evergreens to build all new tail, but that would also end as disaster, so at first thinning

The work ll go slowly at beginnign though, as i have to finish mossie for tenner group first

[SleeperService]

I relly think you'll find it easier to make a new tail boom rather than thin the kit one. If you try and it works-Great! If not it's only time and a bit of rod.

If you look at the 47G-3 you'll see that the tail boom was extended by 14 inches and the rotors were longer too then the 47G-3B has an extra 8 inches width on the cabin again.

For the D version you want the CMK cabin, (assuming they've got the bottom of the door opening flat,) but put a single bench seat in. Shorten the tail boom and rotors, CMK engine, single fuel tank and you're done.

The Vietnam bird would be an H-13G or H using the Italeri kit more or less as is. If you want more work then you could make it into a OH-13S

[Wolwe82]

yea, and the 14 inches in 72 scale is like 0,2 inch.. thats around 5mm, the CMK cabin is 2 seater, while the D-1 what i want to build had 3seats as long as http://www.bell47.net/Family/_Bell47Family.htm and other sources are right

So realy, i m glad for your info and all, but i m not going to shorten something by 5mm, it ll be barely noticeable and the risk to screw the boom is too big. The rotors by 3mm i can take sandpaper and go over it and that ll be it, just to make everyone happy But from the view on it, nobody ll see the diference. Now, IF it would be, that the longer boom has diferent frame design, that would be another storry. Anyway, the way i m going to do it ll be half-half. I decided to keep the long parts of the framing (the rods leading from fuselage towards the end of the tail), just thin them ofcourse and the short rods make new. The reason to this is, i cannt thin the short rods closer to the end of the tail, theres simply not enough room "inside" the framing. And i dont want to do it all new, because i would probably screw the geometry. So this ll sort both problems i hope.
This is showing what the D-1 what i would like to do http://www.primeportal.net/hangar/michael_supko/oh-13_bell_47/ - 3seats, dual controls, one fuel tank.

Edited April 30, 2014 by Wolwe82

[SleeperService]

However you build it. I, for one, will be very happy to see it. I shall be watching with interest.

Apologies if I come across as a rivet obsessive but I seek to advise not dictate. I haven't built one for a while so will be getting a 48th version from somewhere very soon.

BTW there was/is a Squadron Mini In Action Volume on the OH-13 Sioux. I was unaware of it until yesterday. I have no idea what it covers or how well. The Twin Mustang book in the same series is pretty good.

[Wolwe82]

No worry, i should say sorry a bit for reacting like i did, you only wanted to help me make better replica, nothing wrong with it Actualy, as i was looking on how much of the original part i m cutting off, i can as well just cut the few mm, just need to find, if it was the framing what was shortened, or the "pipe" leading from the framing to the tail rotor. Nice info about the squadron though, i could not find any publication around, so i know what to seek for now I m sorry theres no progress so far, i realy have to finish the mossie for tenner group, i ll have enough time once that is done

[Wolwe82]

So well, it seems i ll realy have to scratchbuild the tail all new, even thinned down original part looks still bad.. and the eduard PE parts for tail are too flat, not even paint would help.. I might use it as skeleton when building new tail.. well, ll see. In worst case if i screw everything hard, i ll use the tail from the other kit..

Anyway, first i was going to make new engine. I probably should not use the original parts at all, bcs the body is too wide there, at least when comparing to photos.. But i was a bit lazy and the body of the engine wont be so visible, so.. well, after some scratchbuilding, 3 fingers glued together and bilions of parts sacrificed to carpet monster, here is the result for now..