Looking for pictures of camouflaged RAF Hinds

[Selwyn]

Slight step forward

Found this picture taken at the Manchester Air Empire Air Day on 20 May 1939.

http://www.abpic.co.uk/photo/1248675/

Its of a 26 Sqn lysander I but in the background the picture description states that there is a 613 Avro tutor and Hind in the background.

Its not very clear but it appears to be a camoflaged hind with a silver propellor boss?

Opinions anyone.

Incedentally the Lysander L4783 was one of two 26 Sqn Lysanders at the display, the other L4784 crashed during the flying display. The pilot was reported to be seriously injured but later recovered. (Pilot was P/O Hugh Malcom later W/C Hugh Malcom VC)

Selwyn

[John Aero]

The yellow ring on the Lysander appears normal so it's probably not Ortho film which means the Hind might be camouflaged.... But the Hind has ramshorn exhausts and these were often found on Hind 'T's. Any more in the Scholefield collection?

John

[Dave Fleming]

Nopt a Hind, but nice picture of the RAF Fokker VIIa/3m, I think after it had it's wing changed (Got a pic of that happening somewhere)

http://www.abpic.co.uk/photo/1442458/

Now is it white....?

[John Aero]

IIRC it was later fitted with a Steiger Monospar wing so that's the original wing. Other photos show it to appear very dark almost as Yellow appears in Ortho photos.

John

[Selwyn]

The yellow ring on the Lysander appears normal so it's probably not Ortho film which means the Hind might be camouflaged.... But the Hind has ramshorn exhausts and these were often found on Hind 'T's. Any more in the Scholefield collection?

John

John

Still looking for more pictures.

The Hind in the picture was a Hind (T) and I am 99% certain it was K5473. This is because the only Hind that was on the official strength of 613 on the Empire air day 20th May 39 was this aircraft! (ref 613 ORB) In fact the total squadron strength at that time was the Hind and three Avro Tutors. I have not yet managed to identify these three aircraft.

I have managed to identify almost all Hinds Hectors and Lysanders delivered to 613 as the deliveries were listed in the ORB as well.

Its interesting that in the history it states that the squadron was re equipping with Lysanders at the time of fall of France but it seems that this was a actually bit of a hurried decision from on high, (possibly hastened by the situation in France?) as interestingly the last three Hectors to be issued to the squadron arrived at Odiham 27/3/40, the last Hind left to the MU 28/03/40 (K5473), and the first three lysanders arrived 2/4/40, followed by another three the next day! Bit of a hectic week on the squadron by all accounts.

I am just at this time sorting out all the details I have of the identified squadron aircraft in a table to better understand it. and get a better picture in my mind.

Selwyn

[Dave Fleming]

IIRC it was later fitted with a Steiger Monospar wing so that's the original wing. Other photos show it to appear very dark almost as Yellow appears in Ortho photos.

John

From memory that was on delivery, and I always suspected it was Fokker blue (COULD have been a green shade - certainly a different shade from the markings). I do have a shot somewhere that shows it with both wings in shot.

You can see the Monspar wing in this article: http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1931/1931%20-%201312.html mea culpa! Silver all over now.

Sorry Selwyn - back to Hinds!

Edited May 9, 2014 by Dave Fleming

[Test Graham]

Re 50 E&RTS. Flying Training and Support Units states that it was intended to form it at Benson but this was abandoned and it formed at Ringway 24.5.39, serving there and at Barton until 3.9.39. A photo of a Hind of 28 E&RFTS dated 1939 shows it still uncamouflaged so the same may well apply to L7195 in the same period. 50 E&RFTS had six Hinds including Trainer K6635. This is described as converted to a trainer in The K File, and this adds K6637 to the unit.

[Selwyn]

John

Been doing some research on this, apparently there was a "christening ceremony" for 613 at Manchester airport (Reported in flight magazine June 1939) on 18th May 1939, presided over by the lord mayor of Manchester. The ceremony involved champers being poured over a Hind wheel and later on "several officials" made short flights. I am going to search the local Manchester news archives as soon as I can to see if any pictures exist as I would of thought this occurance might be locally newsworthy and reported. Also there was an Empire Air Day at the airport a few days later (20th) where it was again reported that 613 flew a display, This might also be featured in the newspaper archives.

A long shot but the best I can do!

I will let you know if anything turns up.

Selwyn

Update,

Found a picture of the "christening" ceremony at Ringway featuring the Lord Mayor of Manchester with the Squadrons first aircraft. The picture just shows the nose of aircraft but it is in highly polished condition and has the flame damping exhausts so presumably the aircraft is Hind (T) K5473 in overall yellow Finish?

Still searching for Photographs!

Selwyn

Edited May 23, 2014 by Selwyn

[Dave Fleming]

Quite why Messrs. Thomas and Flintham cast doubt on their use in 613 Sq. is perhaps a matter to ask them, but I suspect because of the same thing that troubles you, a lack of photographic evidence.

They mention in the blurb that they based confirmation of use on photographic evidence