robvulcan Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 (edited) Hi all I recently got lucky and picked up the extremely rare FROG Avro Vulcan B.MK.1. It is the only Vulcan B1 ever Kitted. The lindberg is not very accurate and more reflects the 1st Prototype. The FROG however for its time is pretty darn accurate. It has a few issues. The tail fin cap needs rescribing a little lower. The radome although right in style its a little miss shapen. But a better attempt than airfix's proposed radome line. For its time an amazing kit. It is from the early 60s I believe and was made from the original plans (say's so on the box) It even has quite finely recessed panel lines. It is an interesting item as it is totally different to the B2 the stance of the wheels gives it a taller nose up look. Makes it look very imposing and looks like shes flying stood still. The wing is also much smaller more flat at the back and has a cute subtle kink still being very pyramid like and It is this breed of Vulcan that earned them the nick name "Tin Triangle" Initial B1s were silver before the pre anti flash standard white scheme. I am chuffed to bits with this as you can imagine and whoever build it did a darn good job. I notice they started to mod the intakes more on that later lets look at what we have to play with. This is gonna be a challenge I need to scratch the intakes ...... YIKES ! Cheers Rob Edited September 6, 2015 by robvulcan 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canberra kid Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 That looks the dogs bits Rob! Very impressive.It should give you hours of fun and entertainment. John 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robvulcan Posted April 14, 2014 Author Share Posted April 14, 2014 That looks the dogs bits Rob! Very impressive.It should give you hours of fun and entertainment. John Indeed John I have started work on the intakes. Got an idea were I can start. Once I have finally made them I am going to try and cast them in resin. Cheers Rob 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robvulcan Posted April 14, 2014 Author Share Posted April 14, 2014 Right. I folded over a piece of card to flush up to the walls of the Fuselage and follow the contours of the inner lip of the air intake. I then drew a line around the card. UN-folded it and cut out the shape. Test fitted then used this to transfer it to Plasticard. I have started by laminating very thin Plasticard and making a bulkhead too. Once I got this bit right I need to sort out the central wall and engine tunnels.... Good game good game.... Its fortunate the intakes need to be narrowed somewhat. and helpfull the previous owner removed the lazy central splitter plate and funny lip that was on the inner wall of the intake. Rough but off to a start at least. any suggestions on how to do the intakes are welcome as I am not your scratch builder type. Only when I have no option. So please fire away any ideas. Cheers Rob;) 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martian Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 If I were doing this, I think I would start by trying to return the model to its' constituent parts. Martin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robvulcan Posted April 14, 2014 Author Share Posted April 14, 2014 If I were doing this, I think I would start by trying to return the model to its' constituent parts. Martin I agree. Trouble is that its been glued so solid it shocked me. The kit was made a very long time ago evidently back in the days when glue really stuck stuff together. I was hoping to get it apart but It looks like its been glued with resin. ...I think it was made at least 30 years ago. Luckily I do have an unbuilt one on the stash. If you can advise another route I would love to hear your thought mate. Cheers Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radleigh Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robvulcan Posted April 14, 2014 Author Share Posted April 14, 2014 Pop Corn Is good. But right now I am in the mood for a Large glass of Port and a philosophical journey with some people and Cheeses. I wish. Wouldn’t it be good to arrange a bring a kit and a bottle party. All us model nuts could enjoy good company, food, drink, and talk about the plastic we love the most. And hate too.. Right then The intakes are coming along ok ish. They definately look very B1 and its such a shame FROG did not bother as its really helping bring out the character of the B1 more so. I added some quick free hand brushed black and some rubbish old roundels to help me visualise the sit of the radome and fin cap. They are pretty good but not quite right so they are in for a rescribe. Took a few pics so you and I can see what I am working towards. As you can see sadly the Radome line is lop sided and a little too long and a little to shallow. She does remind me of poor old XA900 at Cosford. I still can't believe they scrapped the last.... Absolutely terrible for a Museum to do that. I bet if they had put her in a hangar she would still be here today. She looked much better than XL391 Did. Cheers Rob 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prowler0000 Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 (edited) Too many years ago to count (1982), I was doing a paper-round in Peckham, Home of Del Trotter &, ummm no-one of note. In the newsagents, on the corner of Meeting House Lane & Carlton Grove, hung from the ceiling, Hand-painted in an iffy-white, one of these..... Says Phil, owner of said establishment, " Wot's wrong with the Vulcan"? Off goes I, looking in the Library (remember those? full of 'books'...), & after careful study, replied "It looks like a Vulcan: I have NO idea...!" "The leading edge is wrong! It should be curved inward.... My Son is an expert in Vulcan's, & he knows EVERYTHING about em...!" Phil was a chap of infinite arrogance, & also a chap of infinite parsimony. So when his shop was demolished due to poor (no) upkeep, the only thing i salvaged from the rubble was the Vulcan.... It STILL looks like a Vulcan! Edited April 15, 2014 by prowler0000 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robvulcan Posted April 15, 2014 Author Share Posted April 15, 2014 Too many years ago to count (1982), I was doing a paper-round in Peckham, Home of Del Trotter &, ummm no-one of note. In the newsagents, on the corner of Meeting House Lane & Carlton Grove, hung from the ceiling, Hand-painted in an iffy-white, one of these..... Says Phil, owner of said establishment, " Wot's wrong with the Vulcan"? Off goes I, looking in the Library (remember those? full of 'books'...), & after careful study, replied "It looks like a Vulcan: I have NO idea...!" "The leading edge is wrong! It should be curved inward.... My Son is an expert in Vulcan's, & he knows EVERYTHING about em...!" Phil was a chap of infinite arrogance, & also a chap of infinite parsimony. So when his shop was demolished due to poor (no) upkeep, the only thing i salvaged from the rubble was the Vulcan.... It STILL looks like a Vulcan! That's an interesting story I would love to see a photo of her. I used to work in Peckham myself at the Kentish Drovers Pub on Rye Lane. That's a lot of stuff to remember. The leading edge is not wrong its correct for a B1 (pretty darn close at least) The B2 had the "Bat Wing" That is a totally different wing. Its thinner wider and has much more exaggerated kinks to the leading edge with the trialling edge also having an extra kink the B1 lacks. It was so they could go higher and faster. Then they scrapped the B1s and then went to low level.. Ironic eh. Really would be good to see the Peckham Vulcan. You salvaged a great item Cheers Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martian Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 Wouldn’t it be good to arrange a bring a kit and a bottle party. All us model nuts could enjoy good company, food, drink, and talk about the plastic we love the most. Now there's a cunning plan if ever I saw one! Martin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robvulcan Posted April 15, 2014 Author Share Posted April 15, 2014 Well I am still fiddling, rolling, cutting, sanding, test fitting, thinking and swearing at plastic a bit this morning. I had the wall sections I made under a hot tap for a few seconds and rolled them into shape around a pen as a former and used a bit of plastic tube as a rolling bar to restore the straight sections of wall. Then I added the vertical wall followed by coffee and more contemplation.....I like contemplation at least it can't go wrong in your imagination. Rather proud of myself I have got this far as I am pretty new to scratching. Now the other side Cheers Rob 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robvulcan Posted April 15, 2014 Author Share Posted April 15, 2014 Now there's a cunning plan if ever I saw one! Martin Would be good one day. Then I take it that’s what shows are for but everyone is a bit busy hunting then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robvulcan Posted April 15, 2014 Author Share Posted April 15, 2014 Has anyone got any good shots down the intakes of a B1 or narrow intaked B2. It seems looking at photos that they are very dark inside B1s and possibly deeper. Looking at some Technical drawings it seems to confirm this with the engine faces lying behind the airbrakes or half way in line with the rear wheel doors. This would explain the extreme darkness but also it looks as if the intake starts as a square-ish pair of tunnels with rounded edges and then tapers into circles that are narrower still... Very hard for me to capture. Cheers Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prowler0000 Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 The "Peckham Vulcan"? Love that name, Rob..... To be honest, I'm not sure where XH-SE15 is at the moment.... Last time i saw her was 18 years ago, when we moved in to my current home. She's in a box in the loft somewhere, a plastic time-capsule from my yoof. If i ever find her again, I WILL post some pix tho! The Drovers is a Wetherspoons now.... I used to live opposite the Drovers in the Old Kent Rd from 1978-81. Small wolrd, eh? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robvulcan Posted April 16, 2014 Author Share Posted April 16, 2014 The "Peckham Vulcan"? Love that name, Rob..... To be honest, I'm not sure where XH-SE15 is at the moment.... Last time i saw her was 18 years ago, when we moved in to my current home. She's in a box in the loft somewhere, a plastic time-capsule from my yoof. If i ever find her again, I WILL post some pix tho! The Drovers is a Wetherspoons now.... I used to live opposite the Drovers in the Old Kent Rd from 1978-81. Small wolrd, eh? HAHAHAH XHSE15 ... I might have to make one now. maybe make it a little more obscure, How about XH5315. It was a wetherspoons when I worked there. 2004-5. I lived a fair trek away. Not as the crow flys but by bus at night.... nightmare distance away in East India Dock Road. Just near Westferry DLR. I used to frequent the Oporto Pub there with a Cider in the sun. Miss London to be honest. I think I might move back there one day. I was down there because I am first and formost a musician. I was on the Access to Music ADP programme at the time. It was a lonely place for me. No family or friends down there. But fascinating to be surrounded by so much. You get this feeling after a while that there is "only London" Its so huge there. If you ever do find her be great to see her. And if she need tarting up and you can't be bothered I will happily oblige Cheers Rob 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 I've got one built but lacks all the undercart, has balsa wood inserted in to the wheel bays, windshield is missing and the fin tip has a bit 'bitten off'. Also painted in correct camo pattern but quite badly. A visit to the paint striipping department would do it wonders! I am considering selling it as is. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robvulcan Posted April 16, 2014 Author Share Posted April 16, 2014 I've got one built but lacks all the undercart, has balsa wood inserted in to the wheel bays, windshield is missing and the fin tip has a bit 'bitten off'. Also painted in correct camo pattern but quite badly. A visit to the paint striipping department would do it wonders! I am considering selling it as is. I will happily restore it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robvulcan Posted April 17, 2014 Author Share Posted April 17, 2014 (edited) Well I have been fumbling with, and swearing at bits of plastic again. I was starting to loose all hope of doing it when I had an epiphany. I was trying to work out were to go next after folding the top bottom and inner wall and cutting and gluing the inner wall. I needed to create the rear, tunnels, and central wall. I have spent more time studying carefully B1 intakes and looking at a few technichal drawings. What I had looked ok but after considering about 5 different methods which all seemed a bit complicated I simply...... Folded a piece of plasticard around on its self giving me the curve at the front and the width. This will be wrapped around a thick piece of plasticard and then filed to fit the slight angle here what you see is the center piece blue tak'd together to see where I am going and I can now see the next stage. Milliput ! Some photos with the Aiffix B2. They need moving back this side. I had got it correctly positioned before they shoul be further back and in line with the wing edge near the intake outer lip. Here you can see how The B1 sits with its nose up rather than the "slouching" B2 Cheers Rob Edited April 17, 2014 by robvulcan 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robvulcan Posted April 17, 2014 Author Share Posted April 17, 2014 I will have to next finalize and fit the centre wall in the correct position. Then make sure the two intakes match in length. Then using either milliput and a wet cotton bud or deluxe materials liquid putty. Add a seam of filler along the inner edge were the main fuselage walls join the top and bottom of the intake walls and along all joins of the central wall to create a soft curved join to make them one unit. Also further down at the back I will have to find a cylinder/tube of the right size and run milliput around the back apertures of the intake to create a taper to fit the rear intake tubes too. Not easy. I may need to create a rear bulkhead to do this. I will also need a few cotton buds. Looking at the few different technical drawings I could find and cross sections it seems this is how it was on real B1s. They seem to suddenly taper down and go through the spar and airbrakes. Then to some narrow circular tunnels then the engine faces start just behind the airbrakes and halfway inline with the centre of the forward rear gear door. No wonder it looks so dark on all the photos. The engines seem to be further back than the B2. I take it this is because the 100 series were smaller. I know this is not finished but I do think they are starting to look like B1 intakes. They are more "squared" if you get me. But the airfix intakes do look smack on for a b2 and have a very open wide and circular look to them. They look greedy Cheers Rob 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
general melchett Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 Great stuff Rob, nice work on the intakes. See what you mean about the black radome being skew, it's also way too long, has it been painted that way or is the radome line really that far back ? Nothing a session of rescribing won't sort out. (Btw I'll scan those B1 drawings I promised for you today), Keep at it, Melch 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robvulcan Posted April 17, 2014 Author Share Posted April 17, 2014 Great stuff Rob, nice work on the intakes. See what you mean about the black radome being skew, it's also way too long, has it been painted that way or is the radome line really that far back ? Nothing a session of rescribing won't sort out. (Btw I'll scan those B1 drawings I promised for you today), Keep at it, Melch Hi mate. Yep I just give it a quick brush over with an acrylic along the given lines to see how it looks. Not far off but totally wrong. Too long and shallow. If I can get it more like the look of my B2 I will be happy. The fin cap is also a little shallow. I have painted it below the provided line. Which again is too shallow. The rest of the detail seem very very good though. and the more and more I look at photos of the real thing at different angles and this one the more and more I see what a fab job FROG did. I will be keeping at it. I must say it really is fun to have a challenge like this. I definitely want to get into scratch building more. Very satisfying to as you say "Build something., Rather than just put together" Cheers Rob 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robvulcan Posted April 17, 2014 Author Share Posted April 17, 2014 On the Subject of old kits here is a little nostalgia trip for you. I recently was very lucky to obtain these very rare kits. I did not know they existed till the General on here told me about them. Not long after that they materialized in my hands. Kader Lincoln Victor and Valiant B1. Its a sore moment when you see how good they are and you find out they did not do the Vulcan. They are just under 1/144th scale and you can see a Pit Road Vulcan B2 next to them for comparison. And with my still unfinished Airfix Valiant. I see Kader got the fin shape correct. They are just held together with blue tak. I really would love to build them one day. Cheers Rob 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robvulcan Posted April 17, 2014 Author Share Posted April 17, 2014 Scratching the Intakes continues. Here I am working on the central dividing wall. A thick piece of Plasticard beveled at the end and then a thin piece wrapped around. Will be sanded to fit later. Getting excited about these now. I hope to cast them in resin if possible. Cheers Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robvulcan Posted April 17, 2014 Author Share Posted April 17, 2014 Ok another update. These are definitely "Rustic" Creations but they are coming on and seem to work. They are glued in now. So next I need to decide milliput, Or Deluxe materials Liquid putty. Milliput = I am used too. Harder to work with on fragile items but is capable of water smoothing. Tough and extra nose weight. Liquid Putty. = not used to, sands easy, not as tough as milliput, Do not know if its wet smoothable. Easier on fragile items. Advice on the Deluxe Materials Liquid Putty. Welcome. Cheers Rob 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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