HP42 Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 Just a quick few questions, building an Avro Lancastrian, 'Aries' to be more precise. What was the cockpit like? Was it 'Lancaster' style with a single pilot seat or was it more like a York with duel control? I assume the seat was low backed and therefore without the superfluous armour plate? Cockpit basically black? It's a quick build being made from a salvaged Airfix Lancaster but I'd like it to look vaguely correct at least! Thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarLos Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 I don't remember where from I took this drawing... I have some articles on the Lancastrian, tomorrow I'll take a look. Carlos 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HP42 Posted April 12, 2014 Author Share Posted April 12, 2014 Thanks for that Carlos, I guess it was more Lancaster than York in the cockpit then. Any other info would be greatly appreciated. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyot Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 (edited) As far as I can tell Aries was still a Lancaster and only had the aerodynamic Lancastrian stype nose and tail fairings, possibly with an extra fuel tank in the nose. The current issue of Aeroplane magazine (May 2014) has an article on the Aries project with lots of nice photos but no cockpit shots I`m afraid, although in camouflaged form the armour still appears to be fitted, it is unclear in its modified form,..I would say that it would have been removed though? There is quite a lot of info in the article including first hand accounts from crew members but I`ve not had the chance to read it yet. I hae noticed that Aries has an astrodome where the mid upper turret should be and that the cockpit astrodome was the smaller original type, at least when it was still camouflaged and had nose and tail turrets fitted. In its updated state it also had Lincoln style wheels with treaded tyres and a H2S radome under the fuselage. I think that Freightdog do resin Lincoln wheels? When the work party from Avro had finished adding the new nose and tail and stripping the paint off they also fitted new Merlin XXIV engines plus extra instrumentation to check magnetic data for its next flight which took it over the North Pole. It left Shawbury in this modified state for Iceland and Canada on the 8th May 1945 with Wing Commander McInley as captain of the 10 man crew. In photos there are no underwing serials or roundels and there are no fin flashes applied either. Apparently it had 11 antennae along the fuselage and there are some bumps at the rear of the bomb doors. The canopy had a flat panel on the left but had a bulged panel on the right. Are you using the Dutch Decals sheet which has Aries on it in silver (Lancastrian style nose/tail) and camo (Lanc with turrets) forms? Good luck Tony Edit- a quick google search under `Lancaster Aries' revealed lots of nice photos of this aircraft. In the original silver scheme it had the roundels modified at some stage with US style white bars (BPF Style but retaining the red centre) but after returning to the UK it had codes applied plus fin stripes and underwing roundels and serials. here are some nice pics; http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv668%2Fthe_hairy_dwarf%2F18-07-08210.jpg&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Frnzaf.proboards.com%2Fthread%2F12574&h=512&w=798&tbnid=TY3f3tmCfOE2MM%3A&zoom=1&docid=Eo7dKp_baVA4LM&ei=JslJU-3zOYXJ0QWa4ICgDw&tbm=isch&ved=0CIsBEIQcMBE&iact=rc&dur=1579&page=2&start=5&ndsp=17 http://www.adf-messageboard.com.au/invboard/uploads/post-6-1332105914.png http://www.adf-messageboard.com.au/invboard/uploads/post-6-1332106100.jpg http://media.iwm.org.uk/iwm/mediaLib/53/media-53679/standard.jpg http://media.iwm.org.uk/iwm/mediaLib/23/media-23020/standard.jpg Edited April 12, 2014 by tonyot 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Fleming Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 Are you using the Dutch Decals sheet which has Aries on it in siler and camo forms? <Pricks up ears. A Camouflaged Lancastrian? Tell us more.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyot Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 (edited) No Dave, By the time that this Lanc had the Lancastrian style nose and tail fairings added it was also stripped back to bare metal! Pity though,.......I`ve edited the post accordingly. Cheers Tony Edited April 12, 2014 by tonyot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJP Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 Well, there is always KB729, later CF-CMV and then G-AKDO. It received Lancaster XPP mods including the Lancastrian style nose. It had its Night lower surfaces stripped back to NMF and flew in what appears to be standard pattern Lancaster camouflage on the uppers. Could it have been Dark Earth / Dark Green? Perhaps transport colours for its work on the Atlantic run? Try googling CF-CMV for photographs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyot Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 (edited) Well I hope that the info came in handy anyway! Edit- Tumbleweed still blowing down the street! Still blowing!! Edited April 17, 2014 by tonyot 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HP42 Posted April 17, 2014 Author Share Posted April 17, 2014 Thanks for the info Tony, I've had a good read of the Aeroplane May issue and it contains a few good piccys as well as explaining the story. I hadn't realised the Aries project was around before the end of the war -so perhaps this is in the wrong section by a matter of months? The decals I'll use are basically from the spares box as well as any I decide to print myself. I've been looking at the sources and the aircraft grew 'decals' as it completed its journeys. For the conversions I've been trying out the Lancastrian HBM conversion. The rear and dorsal plugs look reasonable but the nose conversion is way too pointy and probably not long enough. I'll try and mackle it together. It's a quick project so I'll not worry too much about small inaccuracies but that nose is straining even my low standards. Given the nose issue I'll just keep the cockpit basic and seal her up. Fuselage basically done, just trying to blend it all together now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Puff Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 That nose piece can be cured - it just takes lots of wet and dry, lots more patience and about half a pack of Milliput. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HP42 Posted April 20, 2014 Author Share Posted April 20, 2014 That nose piece can be cured - it just takes lots of wet and dry, lots more patience and about half a pack of Milliput. I did wonder if that was the way to go..... . On further inspection the tail cone isn't the best shape either. The tail fins are the later Lincoln type and I'd need to do a little modification to get them to fit, however, I don't think I need them as Aries (correct me if I'm wrong) had the rounded Lancaster type, certainly initially. It was supposed to be a quick build..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Fleming Posted September 30, 2018 Share Posted September 30, 2018 (edited) Sounds like the HBM conversion has the same data as (or uses) the old M&E injection conversion. As I discovered to my annoyance today! Edited September 30, 2018 by Dave Fleming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbit Leader Posted September 30, 2018 Share Posted September 30, 2018 7 minutes ago, Dave Fleming said: Sounds like the HBM conversion has the same data as (or uses) the old M&E injection conversion. As I discovered to my annoyance today! Enlighten me Dave - please educate the uneducated. I think I’ve got that conversion, is it not good enough? Cheers.. (another) Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sloegin57 Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 6 hours ago, Dave Fleming said: Sounds like the HBM conversion has the same data as (or uses) the old M&E injection conversion. As I discovered to my annoyance today! It is Dave - to my annoyance also some years ago - the Magna resin conversion is the same. I have not seen the Blackbirds conversion so cannot comment but oddly, no photos have been published of it !!. 6 hours ago, Rabbit Leader said: Enlighten me Dave - please educate the uneducated. I think I’ve got that conversion, is it not good enough? Cheers.. (another) Dave As far as I am concerned Dave and Dave, there is no accurate conversion for the Lancastrian/Lincolnian. The nose is incorrect on most (too short and too pointed) and the tail unit is completely incorrect having only a plug for the rear turret area. When the aircraft was in the design stage, Roy Chadwick completely redesigned the rear fuselage to make it smoother, as well as slightly longer, in order to meet the Specifications. Dennis 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbit Leader Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 Thanks Dennis. Are there any good plans out there that one could safely use to correct where one can? Cheers.. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Fleming Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 9 hours ago, Rabbit Leader said: Enlighten me Dave - please educate the uneducated. I think I’ve got that conversion, is it not good enough? Cheers.. (another) Dave This is what it should look like: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Fleming Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 2 hours ago, Rabbit Leader said: Thanks Dennis. Are there any good plans out there that one could safely use to correct where one can? Cheers.. Dave Been trying to see the Aviation news plans (Wondering if they are the source of the dodgy nose) but I'm not paying £7.50 for a photocopy! Dennis - this is the best pic \i can find of the Blackbird conversion - not sure it's 100%, looks to have a much greater curve on the underside that the upper https://images.auctionhelper.com/images/10343//Blackbird Models/BMA72010B.jpg @sloegin57 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Thompson Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 Dave's right about the curve, but it isn't quite so bad as it appears in that photo. Here's one on Ebay: I hope that works. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Thompson Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 (edited) Sorry about the odd spacing in the above post- I can't seem to edit it out, it's either a full tab instead of a space, or just one long word. At least the picture is there. While I'm at it I'd better attribute the photo - it's from Dauntless Hobbies. Paul. Edited October 1, 2018 by Paul Thompson Added attribution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Fleming Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 Cool, thanks for that Paul, that looks close enough for me! - hopefully it's back in stock with balckbird in the near future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sloegin57 Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 7 hours ago, Rabbit Leader said: Thanks Dennis. Are there any good plans out there that one could safely use to correct where one can? Cheers.. Dave Not that I am aware of. I tried British Airways and BAe many moons ago but both said that any info on the Lancastrian modifications had probably been binned during the periodic clear out such Companies have. The best that I found was in an old copy of Aeroplane, 1950's era, - that I posted on BM again many moons ago and reproduced by CarLos in post 2. That drawing shows a Lancastrian. Lancasters that had been modified with the new nose and rear fuselage were, I understand, still known as Lancasters. The internals were completely different and the Lancastrian had the deeper "tropical" radiators on the engines as well as a variety of window styles down the sides of the rear fuselage. The seating arrangements for the Pax were different as well. Whereas the Lancaster conversions had seats on the port side facing to port, the Lancastrian had "proper" airline style seats as shown in the drawing in post 2. The name "Lincolnian" was a completely unofficial "official" name applied to the two Aries aircraft, RE364 "Aries II" and RE367 "Aries III". There were differences between those two as well the most prominent being that on Aries II, the upper part of the canopy was completely plated in whereas on Aries III it was not. Aries II did not last long being partly destroyed by fire but as the EANS had projects to complete, a second Lincoln RE367 was rapidly modified by Avro using the nose and tail from Aries II. This aircraft was also called Aries but as far as I can ascertain did not have the full name "Aries III" painted on, even though it was known as such, - just "Aries" in the same style as before. The latter aircraft flew, with modified nose and tail, in the BC scheme of Medium Sea Grey/Smooth Night (some reports I have state they it was in DE/DG/Night) as there was not time to strip and repaint it until later. The aircraft carried a series of paint schemes during its time culminating in what a friend of mine in Malta who had been in charge of its dismantling it called "Shack Grey" with "Red bits". The aircraft was carefully dismantled at RAF Manby in May '53 (I think) and transported to 20 MU Aston Down for storage and subsequent preservation - which did not happen. He gave me s set of photos of the aircraft being dismantled. Unfortunately, the negatives that came with them were amongst a variety of boxes that were stolen during a break-in I suffered at my accommodation whilst at Wyton. Fortunately I still have prints. 4 hours ago, Dave Fleming said: Been trying to see the Aviation news plans (Wondering if they are the source of the dodgy nose) but I'm not paying £7.50 for a photocopy! Dennis - this is the best pic \i can find of the Blackbird conversion - not sure it's 100%, looks to have a much greater curve on the underside that the upper https://images.auctionhelper.com/images/10343//Blackbird Models/BMA72010B.jpg @sloegin57 Thanks Dave that is the first time that I have seen a shot of the Blackbird conversion. The nose is nearer but too short and the curve should be equal top and bottom. The rear end is completely wrong and assumes that the rear fuselage was the same for the Lancastrian as for the Lancaster - it was not. HTH Dennis 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edge Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 Some great information here, and another thanks for the pictures Paul. i've a set in order from Blackbird and they also have a decal set in the pipeline that includes an Empire Flying School Lancastrian. Edge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canberra kid Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 (edited) I don't know if this sheds any light on the shape issue? John Edited October 3, 2018 by canberra kid photo didn't lode 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 Hi Dennis, you are right with the unofficial name applied to Aires acft, Lincolnian was more properly used for the pure freighter versions of the Lincoln such as those designated for Argentina. As I understand it Aries II and Aries III were standard Lincolns B.2s converted to special duties for the RAF featuring the Lancastrian tail / nose fairings, in the same way that Aries I was Lancaster B.I PD328 converted with the Lancastrian fairings. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canberra kid Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 I know Aries wasn't a Lancastrian but for those you need it here is a photo of the instrument panel I have more if anyone needs/wants them, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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