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Navy Bird

Handley Page Heyford Reference Material Needed

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For no specific reason that I can think of, I bought an old 1:72 Matchbox Handley Page Heyford off of eBay for $9.00. I suppose I picked it up since it's just so odd looking...

Needless to say, decals do not appear to be salvageable. The "protective" wax paper covering is being so protective that it has permanently adhered itself to the decal sheet. Plus, there is the usual bit of yellowing, plus an occasional fungi or two...you know the drill. Does anyone make aftermarket decal sheets for this beastie? I searched Hannants for "Heyford" and got a bunch of F-111s. (Yes, I know why!)

Now, the important part seeing as I expect I will actually build this kit - I need to be pointed in the direction of some good reference material to help with some of the detailing (cockpit, internal framing, gunners, belly turret, etc.).

Oh, and a rigging diagram. I've seen several built up copies of this kit on-line, and they are all a bit different in the rigging department. Many thanks for any assistance!

Cheers,

Bill

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For what it's worth,

I think this is one of those occassions where you might struggle. I can't think of any decal sheets I've ever seen that include heyford markings, you could easily get the correct RAF roundels but it might be easier to just paint the rest of the markings on, I know that would be much more labour intensive and time consuming but I think that would be your best bet unless you can find a set of unused decals on ebay or from a kind soul on here.

Rich

Edited by Rich G

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For no specific reason that I can think of, I bought an old 1:72 Matchbox Handley Page Heyford off of eBay for $9.00. I suppose I picked it up since it's just so odd looking...

Needless to say, decals do not appear to be salvageable. The "protective" wax paper covering is being so protective that it has permanently adhered itself to the decal sheet. Plus, there is the usual bit of yellowing, plus an occasional fungi or two...you know the drill. Does anyone make aftermarket decal sheets for this beastie? I searched Hannants for "Heyford" and got a bunch of F-111s. (Yes, I know why!)

Now, the important part seeing as I expect I will actually build this kit - I need to be pointed in the direction of some good reference material to help with some of the detailing (cockpit, internal framing, gunners, belly turret, etc.).

Oh, and a rigging diagram. I've seen several built up copies of this kit on-line, and they are all a bit different in the rigging department. Many thanks for any assistance!

Cheers,

Bill

Bill

Apart from the very handy link by Black Knight!

In Sep 1980 Scale Models did a build review of the kit, with some pics and drawings IIRC. I scanned this for a chap a while back, if of use can upload or email it on to you.

Regarding decals, you should be able to use standard RAF B types, and then find the remains of of options in a spares box

.

Note, the kit was redone in 2008 by RoG, with a swanky new decal sheet.

http://modelingmadness.com/review/preww2/previews/matchbox/04060.htm

04060b.jpg

So, you could ask Revell of Germany, or just ask here, as someone will have these as spares.

funnily enough the reviewer is the chap i did the scans for....

HTH

T

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Aaahh the improbable Heyford - I see someone has posted a link to the excellent Profile on it. One of my favourite aircraft and the kit isn't too bad either. Turns out rather well.

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I've been doing some digging looking for decal sets for the squardrons, like 7 and 10 squadrons for example, but I can't find anything so far, you would have thought that you could find a model alliance set as they do many squadron history sets but I can't find one so far. I've also had a good look round ebay but nothing so far other than some heyford kits up for sale.

I hope you find some, but it might take a little while.

Rich

Edited by Rich G

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I am pretty sure there was a Heyford included on one of the Kits at War decal sheets , not that it is likely to still be in production .

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Thanks, mates! The Profile publication looks quite nice, and the Scale Models article will help too. I now have an idea of what was inside. :)

I will post a note to see if anyone has any decals left over from their Heyford build. The Revell decal sheet looks like the same schemes and same layout as the Matchbox sheet, but much better quality I'm sure.

Speaking of schemes, what is the latest opinion on the NIVO green? I see the SM article shows it as close to FS34096, which is a colour you often see equated with Dark Slate Grey. Are NIVO and DSG close to each other? (I hope that's not another can of worms!) One of the schemes in the Matchbox kit is one for 102 Squadron in 1938 with what looks like NIVO/Dark Earth over NIVO. Is that for real?

Cheers,

Bill

PS. I don't suppose anyone makes any aftermarket for this baby...maybe the machine guns? :)

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As to reference information - there are two sets of line drawings

http://airwar.ru/other/draw3/heyford.html

http://www.outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=4303

http://scalemodels.ru/modules/forum/viewtopic_t_31125.html

3D view

http://airwar.ru/image/idop/bww2/heyford/heyford-2.gif

I would also recommend browsing through "Flight Archives" - http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/default.aspx - there are some good photos of Heyfords

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Thank you, Pin! Very nice job on your model, it is beautiful! I have bookmarked your build for future reference. The links you post also contain a wealth of information and photos that will help anyone build the Matchbox kit. :):)

Cheers,

Bill

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Thanks, mates! The Profile publication looks quite nice, and the Scale Models article will help too. I now have an idea of what was inside. :)

Speaking of schemes, what is the latest opinion on the NIVO green? I see the SM article shows it as close to FS34096, which is a colour you often see equated with Dark Slate Grey. Are NIVO and DSG close to each other? (I hope that's not another can of worms!) One of the schemes in the Matchbox kit is one for 102 Squadron in 1938 with what looks like NIVO/Dark Earth over NIVO. Is that for real?

Ian Huntley once wrote an article that stated (more or less) that Dark Slate Grey was chosen as a sea colour due to it's similarity to NIVO, following observations of Heyfords flying over the sea.

AFAIK, no-one has yet produced any photos confirming the camouflaged scheme

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The Heyford was also the subject of a section in the Warplanes Special that Scale Models published in the early 1980s. It included a cutaway drawing. I must dig it out. I can't remember if there was a build article for the kit in the magazine's Bomber Collection series.

Joseph

Edited by JosephLalor

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Ian Huntley once wrote an article that stated (more or less) that Dark Slate Grey was chosen as a sea colour due to it's similarity to NIVO, following observations of Heyfords flying over the sea.

AFAIK, no-one has yet produced any photos confirming the camouflaged scheme

I recall him saying that NIVO became Dark Slate Grey with a change in specification. Scale Models' Scale Colour special had a Humbrol mix for NIVO which I think was equal parts HB7 Extra Dark Sea Grey and HB1 Dark Green. I guess that would be 27 and 116 for a ballpark mix. Is it still in the Xtracolor range?

Joseph

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It is still in the Xtracolor range but not in the acrylic range.

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The Heyford was also the subject of a section in the Warplanes Special that Scale Models published in the early 1980s. It included a cutaway drawing. I must dig it out. I can't remember if there was a build article for the kit in the magazine's Bomber Collection series.

One of the links given above had a nice cutaway drawing made by Frank Monger (or Munger) dated 1995. Is that the one?

I recall him saying that NIVO became Dark Slate Grey with a change in specification. Scale Models' Scale Colour special had a Humbrol mix for NIVO which I think was equal parts HB7 Extra Dark Sea Grey and HB1 Dark Green. I guess that would be 27 and 116 for a ballpark mix. Is it still in the Xtracolor range?

Here is a quote from Nick Millman, that I just found in a thread here on BM, concerning NIVO and EDSG. I'll quote it here for easy reference:

"I have a sample of original NIVO on fabric. It is a very dark greyish green with the green hue just tempered by dark grey. Geoff Thomas gave Methuen 28 F 4 and likened it to FS 34096 but the sample is darker and slightly more blue-green than that. It is significantly darker and greener than Dark Slate Grey which I also recently measured, with a difference calculation of over 7 where <2.0 is a close match. Dark Slate Grey was close to FS 34096 @ 2.68 (which Geoff Thomas also compared it to) but I could find no close matches for the NIVO sample in FS595B or RAL.

"Diffuse reflectivity is 10% to Dark Green 7% and Dark Slate Grey 12%. It is difficult to see any obvious "family" connection between NIVO and Dark Slate Grey from the examples examined.

"Comparing it to brushed out samples of Humbrol paint it is closer to 91 Black Green than 30 Dark Green. Accepting that the sample might have darkened with age and yellowed slightly it was perhaps originally a little lighter and greyer than 91."

I will have to make a mix according to the Humbrol recipe given by the Scale Models Scale Colour Special, and see how that compares to my Gunze mix for Dark Slate Grey (which I got from Libor).

I also read today that no photographic evidence of a camouflaged Heyford has come to light, here for reference. For those who haven't read that entire thread, please do, it's fascinating. I kind of like the idea of a yellow-bellied Heyford with DG/DE on top...

Cheers,

Bill

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Just a thought/theory. no basis of fact.

Heyfords were used in HCUs and as glider tugs [training only] during WW2 so might they have got Dark Earth applied as did everything else prior to outbreak of war, and yellow, or yellow/black stripes under in their training roles?

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On the question of colours, underwing serials, black or white? Matchbox, RoG and Profile show them as black, Bombing Colours says white, but often overpainted in green for night exercises, RAF Bomber Command and its Aircraft Vol 1 shows white. To me, white is the logical colour given that Virginias before and Hendons afterwards had white, but I have never seen a photo which is conclusive either way (though of course one showing black might not be conclusive as it may be white toned down.

Paul

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They are definitely not white

1336221967_6220621906_e14900201f_o.jpg

1336221968_K6975Crash.jpg

There are photos there the numbers may seem white

8f0b6ce7d607.jpg

but I think this is rather an optical effect of gloss black paint

Edited by Pin

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1336221967_6220621906_e14900201f_o.jpg

What is the poor chap on the ground doing?

Cheers,

Bill

PS. I found a photo of a Heyford with an enclosed canopy - prototype perhaps?

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What is the poor chap on the ground doing?

Cheers,

Bill

PS. I found a photo of a Heyford with an enclosed canopy - prototype perhaps?

I reckon he has either fallen from that great cockpit height up above, or being a britmodeller fan; just checking on the colour of those serials for all of us!

Cheers.. Dave.

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I think it looks rather dapper with its cap on!

6304817999_a6fc3abc68_z.jpg

So, is that a leading edge slat that I see deployed on the port wing?

Cheers,

Bill

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