Classic Airframes Hurricane Mk 1 "fabric wing"

[Jon Kunac-Tabinor]

HI all - so I've been toying with this one for a few days - mainly trying to sort the nose out, and to make a better prop hub for the early "short pointy" DH prop ( which the kit doesnt have).

So here's the nose - built up around its top front and the hole for the prop has been reamed out to make it bigger

And the spinner- in fact a Hasegawa Spifire MK IX spinner shortened and re cut to take a 3 blade prop, then sanded down using a mini drill as a small lathe.

Not quite there yet, but its promising enough for me to carry on....

Cheers

Jonners

[gingerbob]

Ooh, I don't know... something doesn't seem quite right, but it may be my own mental image that needs calibrating. Two things to consider/shoot down:

• the DH spinner should "line up" pretty well (even if allowing for a gap) rather than seem too small for the cowling front
• I think the early Hurri DH spinner doesn't "flatten out" (come relatively towards parallel) as much as this spinner appears to

As I say, I may be completely wrong about either or both points, and I'll certainly look into it further. I hope Troy comes along shortly.

How did you tackle the "nose-job" at the cowling front- is it a bit of Hase or other cowling grafted in?

bob

Edit: happened to find one at a very similar angle to your last shot- granted it is a Trop, but I think it is a useful comparison- what it actually tells us is another question! (Comparing the two, I wonder if smoothing down the "bulge" of your spinner (flattening the curve) just a wee bit might make it look about right? I "see" this early DH spinner as a quite snubby ">", though obviously with a bit of curve rather than a true cone.)

Edited April 7, 2014 by gingerbob

[Troy Smith]

did I hear my name.

bob, the pic shown is the later Hurricane type DH prop, which is quite small, and pointy.

Jon is doing an 85 Sq Battle of France plane, which most likely had the Spitfire type DH spinner. Pics posted by Steven Eisenmann here

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234956047-romanian-hurricane-underside-colours/page-2

from the pic Jon posted, he's going to cut back the base, as the blades are too far forward... I told him the easy way was the spare in the Airfix Hurricane...but he can't find his one!

Neat work on the nose reshape, have you been sanding the side panels?

Don't forget to remove the rectangular access panel, the one that is the same place as the 'F' in this pic

and tropical vents that are on the removed panel in the pic above

here's a pic, the two little black lines directly below the pilots right foot, are vents to help cooling on tropical aircraft, and are not seen until 1941.

They are on the Hase kit as is uses one generic fuselage sprue and then copied by CA

I've mentioned this before to Jon, so more for others reading the thread who may not these details.

Oh, note, it's a posed pic, you put your left foot into the foothold, and swing the right leg over.. it's quite a step over into a Hurricane cockpit!

T

PS edit - this is the thread about the CA nose and it's problems

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234958269-classic-airframes-hurricane-whats-the-verdict-on-the-nose/

[gingerbob]

No, Troy,

You put your right foot in, you take your right foot out,

You put your left foot in, and then you swing the right about...

bob, cruelly imagining one or two people humming to themselves, against their will

Oh Lord, now we've got DH spinner that are TOO big, to go with Rotol ones likewise, and... oh, bugger, I'm going back to Spits! (Jon- I know where MY Airfix Hurri is, not to mention early Spits...)

[Jon Kunac-Tabinor]

cheers chaps - have been reworking the spinner today, and doing things with wings.

Gonna try and find my Airfix hurricane too - though as its just fun to do it, I'll keep playing with the modded hasegawa one

working on removing the spurious panel lines on the fabric areas and extending the fabric over them ( fun)

It will be an 85 Sqn machine based in France too

Jonners

[Jon Kunac-Tabinor]

Well Troy will be pleased to know I dug out the Airfix Hurri for the prop (decided life's way too short to tinker with the other one!!)

So rear fabric areas have been "seen to" - I've toned them down a lot as pics of the real thing show a much tighter surface than the kit does - all those troughs and ridges look far too much to my eye. So once the spurious panel lines were removed ( see above), the whole fabric fuselage area was masked around and them some thinned mr Dissolved Putty applied using a piece of plastic card as a small spatula to scrape the filler over the troughs and ridges. Once dry this was wet sanded out to give a flatter look

Wing to fuselage fit has been refined - as originally it was a PIG. This took a wee while as I couldn't work out what the cause was. In the end it was a bit of everything: Fuselage wing roots too wide, resin UC box , thickness of internal plastic on fuselage rear trailing edge join, Russia annexing Crimea, Uncle Tom Cobbly, and all....

But if fits now. Ha

Cockpit next I think

Jonners

[Troy Smith]

On 2014-4-20 at 08:03, Jon Kunac-Tabinor said:

Well Troy will be pleased to know I dug out the Airfix Hurri for the prop (decided life's way too short to tinker with the other one!!)

So rear fabric areas have been "seen to" - I've toned them down a lot as pics of the real thing show a much tighter surface than the kit does - all those troughs and ridges look far too much to my eye. So once the spurious panel lines were removed ( see above), the whole fabric fuselage area was masked around and them some thinned mr Dissolved Putty applied using a piece of plastic card as a small spatula to scrape the filler over the troughs and ridges. Once dry this was wet sanded out to give a flatter look

Jonners, you should be pleased as the Airfix prop will make your life much easier....but thanks for thinking of me

Sterling work on the fabric, another problem inherited from the Hase kit

one point, which you may just have not addressed yet, there is not a panel line between the 'doghouse' and fabric, but a strip of fabric doped on. This a restoration, but the fabric strips have not had the finishing coats of dope, and are clearly seen.

The strips edges are 'pinked' meaning cut with special scissors which give the little triangles on the edge.

this stops fabric from fraying so much and is used in dressmaking.

 

Pinking shears,and the cut they make.

 

the pinked edges can be seen in photos of the Science museum plane, look round the landing light and gun ports panel.

Also, note the diagonal join between the 4 ft wide linen strips on the wing, running from landing light down through the shell ejector ports, this goes for all the fabric covered area - Also note how the fabric goes over the metal leading edge.

Jonners, if this is is too much minutiae cluttering up your thread, say so and i'll edit it out. i know the pikning detail is not replicable but the diagonal strips might be?

this link supersizes, and these details can be seen if you know what you are looking for

http://data3.primeportal.net/hangar/mark_hayward/hurricane_mk1_l1592/images/hurricane_mk1_l1592_16_of_26.jpg

Edited June 15, 2017 by Troy Smith
replace pic

[Jon Kunac-Tabinor]

Jonners, you should be pleased as the Airfix prop will make your life much easier....but thanks for thinking of me

Sterling work on the fabric, another problem inherited from the Hase kit

one point, which you may just have not addressed yet, there is not a panel line between the 'doghouse' and fabric, but a strip of fabric doped on. This a restoration, but the fabric strips have not had the finishing coats of dope, and are clearly seen.

the pinked edges can be seen in photos of the Science museum plane, look round the landing light and gun ports panel.

Also, note the diagonal join between the 4 ft wide linen strips on the wing, running from landing light down through the shell ejector ports, this goes for all the fabric covered area - Also note how the fabric goes over the metal leading edge.

Jonners, if this is is too much minutiae cluttering up your thread, say so and i'll edit it out. i know the pikning detail is not replicable but the diagonal strips might be?

this link supersizes, and these details can be seen if you know what you are looking for

http://data3.primeportal.net/hangar/mark_hayward/hurricane_mk1_l1592/images/hurricane_mk1_l1592_16_of_26.jpg

Are you having a giraffe mate!!

This is the kind of stuff I love. Keep it coming, and more importanty - thank you for taking time to post it. Details like this make a big difference to me

I'm just wondering about how to alter the shape of the doghouse too- cockpit side to show those cuts ins.....

Jonners, very impressed with Troy

[Jon Kunac-Tabinor]

Thanks to Troy's links to this site

http://www.hawker-restorations-ltd.co.uk/_images/_completed/g-hury/hury.html

The dog house canopy fairing can be pretty well modelled by cut an appropriate section of the fairing off angling it in then filling and reshaping with CA/Talc mix. Some small flanges are added with plastic card, and once this is done, the armour plate rear bulkhead has a channel cut and chiselled into it so it will fit the new reduced width doghouse front.

The shape is not that difficult to match with pics - its just about working out where the facets go. makes the whole area a lot more interesting in my view.

Cheers

Jonners

[Jon Kunac-Tabinor]

Bit of work on the cockpit - details added from scrap plastic to embellish what's there - which is OK but a bit indistinct.

First coat of grey green added to check everything.

Cheers

Jonners

[Jon Kunac-Tabinor]

Instrument panel

[Troy Smith]

neat work Jonners.

Don't forget that aluminium painted framing and seat seems to be the best bet for early Hurricanes. Look up the thread on this...

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/52968-hurricane-mk1-cockpit-colour/page-2

here's one I've not seen before

http://www.network54.com/Forum/149674/thread/1388125393/Fabric+wing+Hurricane+cockpit+colors+question

There is an interesting debate on the interior colours, Edgar postulating that it might be factory based, the Finnish plane was Gloster built, as is Z5252, a IIB sent to Russia - http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/sheppard/hurricane_Z5252/index.htm

Photos shows the Alu panited cockpit tubing.

Gloster Typhoons seem to be all Aluminium painted tubing.

There is another Russian wreck recovered, which also shows this,http://109lair.hobbyvista.com/DETAILSITE/UK/hurricane/z2768/hurri_z2768.htm

Right, this IS Hawker built according to http://www.k5083.mistral.co.uk/APS.HTM

I'll have to have a search and see what photos of salvaged wreck there are showing what....

despite the assertions in the Hyperscale thread it of note that Hawker Restoration does it's tubing in Aluminium paint.

The Hyperscale discussion talk about the Science Museum plane, but this was restored by Hawker's in the 1950's. The Hurricane at Hendon cockpit shown in the Italeri booklet shows a crude repaint in IGG BTW, by crude i mean the map pocket has had a coat of paint....

I've never seen any photos of the inside of the Science museum plane though.

cheers

T

[Jon Kunac-Tabinor]

Cheers troy - I'd seen the pics of the aluminium framing, and was I admit, wondering about it.....

It does give the 'pit a distinctly pre-war feel!!

Cheers

Jonners

[Jon Kunac-Tabinor]

Cmon , chaps - this isnt meant to be a Jon & Troy love in.!!!!!

Lets have some feedback. Its a bleedin' 'Urricane after all

Would it make it easier if i state categorically that ANY Hobbyboss/ Trumpeter model of said aircraft will be crap? Just to get things rolling that is...

jonners

[Mozzy19]

Cmon , chaps - this isnt meant to be a Jon & Troy love in.!!!!!

jonners

You forgot gingerbob!

Not being a Hurricane expert I can't provide any useful info, but your build is looking good.

Sean

[Jon Kunac-Tabinor]

Arras, and other towns in northern france, I did forget Bob.

Jonners- with apols to the GBmeister

[Jon Kunac-Tabinor]

Progress continues. A busy appearance is what Im after here..... So I've kept detail colours bright to relieve the gloom that will inevitably descend on the area once its buttoned up.

And that might actually be a maxim for life in general too!

Jonners

[tonyot]

Looking good Jonners,....I`ve only just spotted this one. I agree with using silver for the cockpit framework too,

My own effort at a fabric winged Mk.I using the Airfix kit is painted and just about to receive those decals that you sent plus the Watts prop,....cheers again.

Cheers

Tony

[gingerbob]

Cmon , chaps - this isnt meant to be a Jon & Troy love in.!!!!!

Would it make it easier if i state categorically that ANY Hobbyboss/ Trumpeter model of said aircraft will be crap? Just to get things rolling that is...

Well, except that Trump's 1/24 Hurri seems to be considered one of their best efforts, and possibly even "good"

... I did forget Bob.

Jonners- with apols to the GBmeister

No worries- I haven't made much of a contribution, though I did think my caption for the climb-aboard shot was witty. I confess, aside from "real life" (a concept I do my best to dismiss), I've been temporarily distracted away from Hurris by, of all things, F-86s/FJs. That and a temporary lack of tools with which to perform the micro-surgery required by the 1/72 kit- I don't want to turn it into a metal wing by mistake, when I'm just wanting to smooth the surface!

Remember, this is a WIP- you're supposed to do all the work, and we just get to vicariously enjoy a model getting built. Now get back to work! [Edit: Actually, as Jon will know, I do prefer his style of WIP, with equal (?) amounts true modelling, examination of the subject (aka 'rivet counting'), and silliness.]

bob

Edited April 27, 2014 by gingerbob

[Viking]

Lets have some feedback. Its a bleedin' 'Urricane after all

Okey-dokey then. I don't know too much about Hurri's but love this sort of thread that throws up useful bits of esoteric info. Theres some great photos being posted up too, so It's becoming a handy reference. The cockpit is looking great, thats some useful stuff on the colours.

I rather like the early ones with the 2 blade Watts prop end black/white undersides, sort of 'the calm before the storm' era (storm? Hurricane? what am I saying?). That and the ones with the ruddy great canon pods under the wings.

Keep it coming, we are looking.

Cheers

John

[Jon Kunac-Tabinor]

Cheers chaps - forgive my insecurity!!!

Now heres the funny thing, and kind of what I like with modelling. You spend loads of time getting everything fettled, filed, sanded and test fitted, right? You paint up the insidey bits, knowing that everything will fit. You join the fuselage halves, because you know the pits fits form below ( which it does, just fine too), then you go to test fit the carefully trimmed and loved wing, and....

... you discover the brass tubes you added under the pit floor now fouls the resin UC box in the wing, so it wont seat properly

For those of you that having been watching "The trip to Italy" - this was such an Alanis Morisette moment, "isnt it ironic etc etc" - and actually it did rain on my wedding day - and that was cool & romantic, but this was just annoying.

Anyhow I digress: Fortunately there's just enough excess resin on the top of the UC box that I could sand a wide groove into it to allow the extra brass tube room. I know its not exactly a Russia/Ukraine tension moment, but it was close, I assure you.

With that hurdle, erm hurdled, and Alanis safely tucked away back into the memory of a mad ex-GF with an older man fixation, and insecurity issues ( dont ask, but PM is available LOL) the wing went smoothly on, and within a trice I was here:

Christ - its an "urricane!!!

And now for the "Troy Pleaser" ( also available on the shopping channel for 19.95 inc shipping), here's the underside -

Hopefully that fine filigree of Mr Dissolved Putty will translate into a fine and subtle fabric join line, once a few coats of Dulux are on.

gents, and ladies; I think we have a model

Cheers

Jonners, having a cathartic moment ( even tho I'm C of E)

[Troy Smith]

And now for the "Troy Pleaser" ( also available on the shopping channel for 19.95 inc shipping), here's the underside -

Hopefully that fine filigree of Mr Dissolved Putty will translate into a fine and subtle fabric join line, once a few coats of Dulux are on.

thanks for the thought, but I must not have been totally clear, the linen is 4 ft strips, the lines you put in are only one of the joins... there are 6, 3 upper, 3 lower

it's a bit lo-res,[preview drawing from here http://www.albentley-drawings.com/drawings/hawker-hurricane-mk-i/hawker-hurricane-mk-ii/#]

but the join lines are just about visible, on upper and lower wings, on the fabric wing insert, the one I mentioned, and now you know what too look for, the other 5.

if not clear enough, I'll sort out a better pic, otherwise, lovely work, pleasure to have contributed.

cheers

T

[Jon Kunac-Tabinor]

DOH!!! of course -it makes perfect sense. Again - thank you Troy.

Jonners, sensing some more diagonal stripes in his life....

[Jon Kunac-Tabinor]

Evening all. Right, theres been a bit of a gap - so let me tell you what you missed. Lots of sanding. There. Happy? Good, on we go

So I've added a tad of paint. Pretty self explanatory - except I'm trying to give the canvas areas a slightly lighter tone than the metal areas, so once the Xtracrlix Dark earth has cured these bit swill be masked and a subtle lighter tone brushed on. Did the same for the black on the underside - which you might just pick out. The white areas will be treated slightly differently post painting.

Off to Hendon tomorrow, so if you are there- come say hi at the Pheon stand.

Cheers

Jonners

[Jon Kunac-Tabinor]

"Shinycane" !!!

Jonners