Duncan B Posted March 23, 2014 Author Share Posted March 23, 2014 Thanks for everyone's interest so far. Here is a photo of a 226 Sqn Mitchell from the back of the first logbook. So what am I looking at here, what is the colour scheme and is this a IId or the later III? I can't quite make out the serial number on the original picture. Duncan B sorry for the quality of the photo, it's a quick snapshot taken with my phone so I could get it online. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brewerjerry Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 HI serial looks like FW444 to me cheers Jerry 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elger Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 That would be a mk II (not a III at least - that would have the turret behind the cockpit). My guess it's olive drab over neutral gray. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panoz Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 (edited) HI serial looks like FW444 to me cheers Jerry Nope it's FW144 which makes it a B-25D (Mitchell II); ref "Air Arsenal North America". Camo is OD/NG (note the painted out US Insignia on fuselage and serial number on fin). Edited March 23, 2014 by Panoz 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Test Graham Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Sadly, despite some hopeful diversions into the precise shades of OD, there is no alternative to OD/NG for an RAF Mk.II. Or indeed a Mk.III. You can see the different appearance of the fading over the fabric on the rudder, and patches where RAF Dark Green has been used to overpaint the US serial and various previous markings. I think this is FW144, which agrees with FW152 and FW172 in having the later cowling and the belly turret. Troy: Yes, the RAF did have some with the side gun positions, certainly by FW192 and later serials. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan B Posted March 23, 2014 Author Share Posted March 23, 2014 So these were Ex USAAF machines then? Duncan B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panoz Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 (edited) So these were Ex USAAF machines then? Duncan B No, these were brand new aircraft supplied to the RAF under Lend Lease. All these were transferred from USAAF production orders hence the US markings and serials. Edited March 23, 2014 by Panoz 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan B Posted March 23, 2014 Author Share Posted March 23, 2014 I've had a quick look on Hannants but they don't have the Italeri kit in stock, is it still available? Duncan B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Test Graham Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Try for the Bilek, or try Kingkit. Other 2nd-hand suppliers do exist, but I can't quote names. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selwyn Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 bit of inspiration? http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/77783-raf-mitchell-ii-226-sqn/ Selwyn 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan B Posted March 24, 2014 Author Share Posted March 24, 2014 Try for the Bilek, or try Kingkit. Other 2nd-hand suppliers do exist, but I can't quote names. thanks, I'll have a look today. bit of inspiration? http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/77783-raf-mitchell-ii-226-sqn/ Selwyn Thanks for the link, I'm going to check his logbook to see if he flew on that Op. Duncan B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miggers Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 I shall keep an eye on this,the old "Billy" Mitchell in all it's guises is one of my all time favorite aeroplanes. As "Jeff" Hawke once said"It's a gentlman's aeroplane,for dropping bombs yes,but it's still a gentleman's aeroplane". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan B Posted March 28, 2014 Author Share Posted March 28, 2014 I've managed to find the Italeri kit and have also ordered the Frog kit as well (more out of curiosity than anything else). Hopefully I'll be able to do the backstory some justice. Duncan B 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristolhibby Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 Thanks for everyone's interest so far. Here is a photo of a 226 Sqn Mitchell from the back of the first logbook. So what am I looking at here, what is the colour scheme and is this a IId or the later III? I can't quite make out the serial number on the original picture. Duncan B sorry for the quality of the photo, it's a quick snapshot taken with my phone so I could get it online. Hi there, I've been doing some research on my Grandads Mitchell during the war, and stumbled across this thread. (I dabble in a bit of modelling). Anyway, he was one of the fitters in 226 squadron and the "kite" that he looked after was the Mitchell P-Peter. I interviewed him before he died about D-Day and what he was up to. This seems a very small world as it sounds like your neighbours father was my the pilot of my Grandads Mitchell. I can give you some information on the nose artwork as well for P-Peter. It was a Grim Reaper sytheing the top of a Swastika off. It would be great to see if your source material matches up with his memory. Sadly my Grandad died in 2011 so I have no more information other than the Squadron, the fact it was P for Peter and they were flying Mitchell's. Would be great to hear any updates. Cheers J 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan B Posted August 1, 2016 Author Share Posted August 1, 2016 Hi there, I've been doing some research on my Grandads Mitchell during the war, and stumbled across this thread. (I dabble in a bit of modelling). Anyway, he was one of the fitters in 226 squadron and the "kite" that he looked after was the Mitchell P-Peter. I interviewed him before he died about D-Day and what he was up to. This seems a very small world as it sounds like your neighbours father was my the pilot of my Grandads Mitchell. I can give you some information on the nose artwork as well for P-Peter. It was a Grim Reaper sytheing the top of a Swastika off. It would be great to see if your source material matches up with his memory. Sadly my Grandad died in 2011 so I have no more information other than the Squadron, the fact it was P for Peter and they were flying Mitchell's. Would be great to hear any updates. Cheers J Amazing, such a small world isn't it? I'd be interested in any info you have and in return I can get information on the operations flown during that period for 'my' pilot from his Logbook for you. Duncan B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristolhibby Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 (edited) Amazing, such a small world isn't it? I'd be interested in any info you have and in return I can get information on the operations flown during that period for 'my' pilot from his Logbook for you. Duncan B That would be great. I've got the sketch he did of the nose art, I'll have to do some digging in the loft. He also gave a good account of pre D-day squadron life and life in the forward deployed airfields post D-Day in France and Holland.He was an engineer by trade and as such was deemed too "valuable" to be used in the front line. So he was drafted into the RAF. He went up a few times to listen to engines and to know what had to be tinkered with at times. Always fondly mentions the pilots flying like lunatics just to put the willies up him. Do you happen to have any pictures of P for Peter? Cheers J Edited August 1, 2016 by Bristolhibby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan B Posted August 1, 2016 Author Share Posted August 1, 2016 That would be great. I've got the sketch he did of the nose art, I'll have to do some digging in the loft. He also gave a good account of pre D-day squadron life and life in the forward deployed airfields post D-Day in France and Holland. He was an engineer by trade and as such was deemed too "valuable" to be used in the front line. So he was drafted into the RAF. He went up a few times to listen to engines and to know what had to be tinkered with at times. Always fondly mentions the pilots flying like lunatics just to put the willies up him. Do you happen to have any pictures of P for Peter? Cheers J Well from what you say your Grandad was on the Squadron at the same time as my next door neighbour's Dad so they would have know each other for sure. I will have to ask to have another look at his logbooks to check for photos but I suspect not as that aircraft was lost shortly after the flight in which he earned his DFC. When I get a moment I'll ask for the stuff back and get some of it scanned. She'll be chuffed to hear that I've been chatting to you about your Grandad and her Dad. Duncan B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristolhibby Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 Well from what you say your Grandad was on the Squadron at the same time as my next door neighbour's Dad so they would have know each other for sure. I will have to ask to have another look at his logbooks to check for photos but I suspect not as that aircraft was lost shortly after the flight in which he earned his DFC. When I get a moment I'll ask for the stuff back and get some of it scanned. She'll be chuffed to hear that I've been chatting to you about your Grandad and her Dad. Duncan B If it helps his name was Ron Smart, his nickname was Stinker. I'm sure they would have known each other, as I'd imagine a pilot would have to get on quite well with his fitter. He told me of the time when the ground crew were moving to Holland and the new airfield getting attacked by Me 262s, which for him and his mates was the first time any of them had seen a jet aircraft in their lives. What an introduction to the new world! J 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trenton guy Posted August 2, 2016 Share Posted August 2, 2016 If you compare the fuselage shape of the Italeri kit with that of the very accurate Hasegawa kit, as I did, you will despair of ever making anything decent out of it. The Italieri is altogether too plump and rounded. If you accept the accuracy of the Hasegawa kit (except for that fairly easily corrected upper nose glazing clanger) then the Italeri is beyond all hope. Not a single line is what it should be. The Hasegawa kit can be converted to an early version (B,C,orD) but it is not for the faint hearted. The turret can be moved to the rear and the resultant hole forward skinned over, the rear fuselage depth adjusted, and all of the fuselage windows removed and covered over with new ones cut in and glazed as per the early configuration. Various Italeri parts help, such as all the fuselage glazing, the tail cone, the smooth engine cowls, assorted bits of armament. I actually won a best naval aircraft in a show with it ( it was marked as a Marine B-25D). I would never try it again! IMHO the best route to an early B-25 is the old Monogran snap-tight kit. It is a very accurate model but clearly lacking in detail. It will far easier to add detail from a Hasegawa kit than go the route that I did. These old kits remain surprisingly available on e-bay at reasonable prices. I picked a couple as I am planning to take my own advice while adding one of Jimmy Doolittle's Tokyo raid machines and a North African "sand and spinach" example to my collection. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan B Posted August 2, 2016 Author Share Posted August 2, 2016 If it helps his name was Ron Smart, his nickname was Stinker. I'm sure they would have known each other, as I'd imagine a pilot would have to get on quite well with his fitter. He told me of the time when the ground crew were moving to Holland and the new airfield getting attacked by Me 262s, which for him and his mates was the first time any of them had seen a jet aircraft in their lives. What an introduction to the new world! J I've spoken to my Neighbour and she was amazed and moved that we've been able to connect like this. I can get the logbooks back at any time and will copy it for you, it might take a bit of time before I can do that though but I won't forget, honest. She has asked for a copy of the nose art so she can put it in with her Dad's logbooks etc, she's, rightly, very proud of her Dad's RAF career (he stayed in right into the 1970's and flew all sorts of stuff, on one Battle Commander's course he flew Lightnings, Hercules, a helicopter and some other stuff that I can't remember right now). If you compare the fuselage shape of the Italeri kit with that of the very accurate Hasegawa kit, as I did, you will despair of ever making anything decent out of it. The Italieri is altogether too plump and rounded. If you accept the accuracy of the Hasegawa kit (except for that fairly easily corrected upper nose glazing clanger) then the Italeri is beyond all hope. Not a single line is what it should be. The Hasegawa kit can be converted to an early version (B,C,orD) but it is not for the faint hearted. The turret can be moved to the rear and the resultant hole forward skinned over, the rear fuselage depth adjusted, and all of the fuselage windows removed and covered over with new ones cut in and glazed as per the early configuration. Various Italeri parts help, such as all the fuselage glazing, the tail cone, the smooth engine cowls, assorted bits of armament. I actually won a best naval aircraft in a show with it ( it was marked as a Marine B-25D). I would never try it again! IMHO the best route to an early B-25 is the old Monogran snap-tight kit. It is a very accurate model but clearly lacking in detail. It will far easier to add detail from a Hasegawa kit than go the route that I did. These old kits remain surprisingly available on e-bay at reasonable prices. I picked a couple as I am planning to take my own advice while adding one of Jimmy Doolittle's Tokyo raid machines and a North African "sand and spinach" example to my collection. Thanks for the info, I managed to get a Hasegawa kit cheap and will attempt the back-dating, the worst thing that can happen is that I completely mess up the fuselage but will still have a decent set of wings, main undercarriage and all the other bits to use on something else, maybe the Monogram snap-tight kit. I really should make a start to this project soon as time is marching on. Duncan B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalea Posted August 2, 2016 Share Posted August 2, 2016 Let us know what you intend to do about the pilots back armour as I'm completely at a loss 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan B Posted August 2, 2016 Author Share Posted August 2, 2016 Let us know what you intend to do about the pilots back armour as I'm completely at a loss I'm not an expert on Mitchells so have no idea what you mean, sorry. Duncan B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalea Posted August 2, 2016 Share Posted August 2, 2016 Most warbird Mitchells you see are based on early post-war TB-25s, i.e. without armour plate. Most models are based on these. Pilots and co-pilots had back armour in wartime. Maybe this is the reason for the odd shaped bathtubs in the Italeri kit. The Hasegawa kit has a flight deck like an airliner. I'm still trying to find out what R.A.F. practice was. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan B Posted August 2, 2016 Author Share Posted August 2, 2016 Most warbird Mitchells you see are based on early post-war TB-25s, i.e. without armour plate. Most models are based on these. Pilots and co-pilots had back armour in wartime. Maybe this is the reason for the odd shaped bathtubs in the Italeri kit. The Hasegawa kit has a flight deck like an airliner. I'm still trying to find out what R.A.F. practice was. Thanks for explaining that, I didn't know. Duncan B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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