L1750 Hurricane DZ-Z - cannons!

[GrzeM]

Dear collective knowledge!

I've found pretty interesting memoires of R.L. "Dick" Smith including such part:

"Early in July 1940 I noticed a Hurricane in the hangar with tubes sticking out of each wing, and asked the Engineer Officer, P/O Ford, what they were. “20 mm Cannons” I was told. At this time cannons were dead secret and normally would have been at the Experimental bases at Martlesham or Boscombe Down. This aircraft was L1750, Squadron letters DZ-Z, and it had two cannons, which were cocked and fired by a tricky procedure, I think the system was called ‘Eureka’."

http://www.bbm.org.uk/SmithRL.htm

Smith describes also another, this time 4 cannons armed Hurricane, V7360 DZ-C. The most intesresting is the fact, that Smith has really effectively used both these planes in combat.

What else we know about these planes? From modeller's point of view? Wings fabric or metal? Propeller Rotol or DH? Hub? Fin in front of tailwheel or not? Armoured windscreen? Drawing of the cannon gondolas is in the '70s book about modeling BoB airplanes, but nothing else...

This new Airfix kit is soooo tempting!!!

Grzegorz

Edited March 21, 2014 by GrzeM

[Troy Smith]

Grzegorz

L1750 would most likely be early production standard, and probably have the DH type propeller retrofitted. I'd guess it to be the same part as Airfix specify in the VY-G 85 sq boxing.

they are not to hand, but there are drawings of the cannon gondolas on the Bentley Hurricane drawings.

http://www.albentley-drawings.com/drawings/hawker-hurricane-mk-i/hawker-hurricane-mk-ii/

Just visible at the bottom left of the sheet, front and side view shown.

V7360 is a much later plane, and would be BoB standard, blunt rotol, armoured screen [look fro similar serialed planes] and from the description, would have a layout similar to the 'C' wing, infact it sounds like a prototype for the C wing.

i think there are pics of BoB era 151 sq Hurricanes, which would give an idea of the squadron code letter style and application, [it varies a lot between squadrons]

HTH

T

[Edgar]

When built it had a Merlin II, and could be dived at 3800rpm, which hints at metal wings (fabric production ended in September 1939.) It's doubtful that the Merlin II would have survived until September 1940, though.

By wartime the underwing serials would, of course, have gone, and the undersides, by the time of L1750 finally being used, should have been Sky.

Edgar

Edited March 21, 2014 by Edgar

[Test Graham]

Mason states that V7360 as the first available Merlin XX airframe, and thus a Mk.II.

The photograph above appears to be of a fabric-covered wing, and this is so stated by Mason with close-up pictures (p50 Aston edition). L1750 was first flown by Lucas on 24th May 1939 which only just post-dates the first set of metal wings flown on 28th April 1939. Incidentally Mason states that the last fabric-wing set left Brooklands in March 1940 (his previous Macdonalds book). In view of Edgar's comments on dive speeds, it is relevant to note that the metal wing, although originally considered for the Hurricane from 1935, was prioritised for the dive-bomber Henley. The prototype was built with fabric-covered wings but concern was expressed about the possible effects of damage from ground fire at high speeds.

Edited March 21, 2014 by Graham Boak

[tango98]

Some info from the C.G. Diagram No.379 (Special loading for Firing Trials with full fuel load dated 2nd August 1940 for V7360 which oddly, identifies it as a Hurricane Mk.I while all other documentation relating to this aircraft correctly, as noted by Graham, identify it as a Mk II):

Merlin III engine

Rotol airscrew

Mass-balanced elevators (necessary when metal wings fitted)

Metal wings

Front and rear armour

Self-sealing tanks

Cheers

Dave

Edited March 21, 2014 by tango98

[Test Graham]

If it has a Merlin III, then it is a Mk.I, and Mason is incorrect. It is in the middle of a batch of Mk.Is. However, it does appear in Mason's list of Langley flight tests as a Mk.IIC 5/12/40 , so he is at least consistent. He refers to a first flight of V7360 around 10 July, whereas the first prototype of the Mk.II was P3269 11/6/40. That's a bit close. Perhaps it initially flew as a Mk.I but was re-built before December?

incidentally, another cannon-armed aircraft was P2640, but this is said to have transferred its wings to V7360. P2640 went on to be tropicalized and serve in the Middle East. V7360 was PB.O with 46 Sq when Rabagliati claimed a Bf109E on 5.9.40. A Merlin XX would certainly have helped... with 4 cannon the Hurri was a bit overloaded for dogfighting.

[theplasticsurgeon]

Try this site to look up where they're built, and their original build spec.

http://www.k5083.mistral.co.uk/APS.HTM

[GrzeM]

Thanks a lot for all these informations! As a few Poles flew in 151 squadron I have two photos of this unit Hurricanes (P3320 DZ-Y and V7434 DZ-R), both with quite big and thick code letters. Seems it was the style of that squadron so I may assume that DZ-Z had similar lettering too.

I wonder what should the top of the wing look. Could it have standard gun-covers? It is possible, as these covers were aligned with internal wing construction elements. Altering this could be difficult and probably unnecessary, as the cannon itself hung under the wing, not inside.

So the conversion of Airfix fabric-wing Hurrie seems to be very possible!

Thanks again for all the info and pictures! These years are soooo cool for WWII RAF enthusiasts! So many cool models, even those never unavailable in reasonable quality. And more are coming!

[Colin @ Freightdog Models]

Freightdog will make it easier for you, we make the conversion for L1750 (20mm cannon and five spoke wheels), it will be listed on our website soon. Thank you!

Colin

[Lazlo Woodbine]

Hi

Do a google search for 'Spirit of North Weald News December 2013' , there is a page on the cannon armed Hurricanes with a couple of conjectural profiles.

See here http://www.eppingforestdc.gov.uk/index.php/out-and-about/north-weald-airfield/docs-spirit-of-nw?download=2331:spirit-of-north-weald-news-issue-12

Gary

Edited March 22, 2014 by Lazlo Woodbine

[tango98]

Gents,

Regarding my earlier post regarding V7360 being a Mk II, I was in error and had I read the letter from HQ FC to the OC of 151 Sqn of 16 August 1940 and other documents correctly I would have spotted my mistake (see last line of opening paragraph of this letter transcribed verbatim below).

“A trial installation of four 20 mm. guns is being carried out in a Hurricane II. This will have continuous feed with 100 rounds per gun. In the meantime, in order to give an early opportunity of assessing the value of the four gun installation, and (obviously a typo for an) interim scheme has been carried out in a Hurricane I.”

Dave

Edited March 23, 2014 by tango98

[GrzeM]

Thank you, Gary, very nice profiles of both cannon-Hurricanes in this magazine!