Emhar 1:35 Mk.IV male - help needed

[lentorpe]

Hi all, I am building this thing but I find some details, er, hum, say, "suspicious" and sadly I am unable to find photo evidence, so I guess a site called "Britmodeller" will surely be the best place to ask for help.

1.- Is the rear muffler (I think that´s the thing's name) really over a roof hatch so that this would be impossible to open?

2.- The upper open "box" containing it... was it made of wood, thick steel plate, thin steel plate bent over itself? Are the kit pieces for this correct? Was it centered over the hull roof?

3.- Does anybody know with certainty if the upper rails are right as per kit instructions, or should them be reversed? What were their real measures? (maybe I would not ask this, because I have already ordered some 3.2mm evergreen angles)

4.- And those vertical pedestals on which they rest, were them also made out of angle beams? In what position, I mean the outer "elbow" facing frontwards & outside, for instance?

5.- Were the rails simply bent, welded, or riveted? Did they have any reinforcing plate?

6.- And now for something completely different, what about the box at the very, VERY rear, low? In my built kit it doesn´t reach the vertical insides of the track guards, there is some gap there on both sides... is this correct or should I snap it off and rebuild it???

Thanks in advance

[Killingholme]

1) no, because I've never seen a picture or a drawing which includes these hatches! I honestly don't know what they are supposed to represent, and can't say authoritatively that they don't exist, just I've never seen them!

2) metal with a turned-in edge on both the tanks I've seen. It is described as 'box for towing rope' on the general arrangement, but Mk.Ivs can be seen with allsorts of stuff on their roofs, including rather unwisely, petrol tins!

3) probably not- because they just don't fit on the Emhar kit! They should follow the contours of the hull and just clear the roof of the 'cab'.

4) no- they're quite complicated little assemblies- flat plate and a sort of 'holder'

5) Bent, I suppose. Never looked that closely! Would rule out welding on the basis of the technology available at the time. No need to add any weld beads on this kit!

6) That's the petrol tank. It's a box shape, but most seemed to have this 'burst armour' (or spaced armour in modern parlance) applied to the rear in two sloping plates. The box itself is hung from the rear plate and is not connected to the side sponsons except by two metal suspension arms. In the armoured guise, it's a complicated setup that Emhar hasn't even bothered attempting!

If you're taking detailing this kit seriously, you've got a big job on your hands!!!

good luck...

Will

Edited March 28, 2014 by Killingholme

[Nobby57]

Fantastic pictures and a good explanation Will...not my period, but a good response.

[lentorpe]

Will... Will you marry me?

Now, seriously, THAT´S A RESPONSE, man!!! Many, many thanks. I suffer from the asking syndrome, so...

7.- What Museum is that?

8.- Any photo detailing the way the chains of the unditching beam get under the tracks?

9.- The chain seems to be attached to the top and bottom plates on the beam, but on the right side it runs at the back of the beam while in the left side it runs at the front. Any logical reason for this, it simply doesn´t matter, a restoration error?

10.- If you have been right in front of the thing, seeing it with your very eyes safe from photo colour distortion... Was it khaki / ochre as in the front and top views? Or ex-Green as it appears in the rear views? Reliability in any case? True WWI paint, or post-war use?

Oh, I am not at all a serious detailer - just an OOB guy with itchy moments. For instance, after reading your 1. response and seeing the photo, I know the left roof hatch will be gone. But MAYBE the one on the right side will remain as an artistic license or a field modification... it simply looks cool. Or maybe I will put a rope there. Maybe I will cut the exhaust pipe short as in your photos, or maybe i will keep it proud and long as seen in other examples (possibly Mk.V not IV)... you guessed it, it is cooler that way

I still wonder how did they manage to bend those rails (your photos clearly confirm they are bent) without wrinkling the compressed part of the rail... of course this is not the type of part one would cast... but this is futile lucubration.

Thanks again, and many greetings

[Killingholme]

No probs Ientorpe, it's nice to see an increase in interest in WWI tanks. We can but hope manufacturers take notice that serious interest in modelling these beasts is increasing!

7) Belgian Military Museum in Brussels. It's called 'Lodestar III'. I don't have many more photos because I had a school group with me at the time. Not much time for clicking when you're shouting "No Jimmy, that howitzer isn't loaded. So stop climbing on it..."

8) I'm afraid not, it's not an easy shot to take from the ground! I think the 'stirrup' would probably just bolt to the sub-structure of the track. If I was designing it, I'd put a rod through the track and secure the stirrup to that- but I have no idea how they did it in reality. There is a good 3-4'' gap between the track surface and the side of the tank- certainly enough for a hand to reach through. Wouldn't fancy that job on a muddy tank sitting at an angle and under fire!

9) Worth noting that all the undtiching gear was added by Army central workshops or even by individual tank battalions in France, so there could be variation on how it is fitted. In my photos The right hand side are bolted to the tracks for use, and are secured in the travelling position on the left- that accounts for the difference.

10) Bowny-green.... Seriously, this tank is wearing original WWI paint, but has faded significantly. Good illustration of this is the fact that those stripes were once red/white. I don't think there is any consensus on the colour of WWI tanks, the records describing it only as 'service colour'. Modern interpretations seem to be a brown or khaki colour. If anything my photos have put a yellowy-tone to the images due to artificia ight. For example. this photograph of the same tank under natura lighting conditions appears much more grey- https://www.flickr.com/photos/hansderegt/6908995716/in/photostream/

I imagine clearer answers to these questions and more are to be found in the archives, but I certainly don't have the experience to dig through them. Perhaps someone will do a 'modelling the MK.IV tank' book to coincide with the centenary?

BTW, a good book to get hold of is the Crowood British Tanks 1915-1919 by Fletcher. The Osprey books are quite nice little introductions too.

Edited April 2, 2014 by Killingholme

[lentorpe]

I would have supposed you were a teacher - because of the clarity in your explanations. Good to see they STILL allow children to go to Museums and see all sorts of "disgusting violent military killing things". Any teacher doing so here in Spain would find himself in trouble unless the chosen War Museum was about our civil war and specifically the atrocities commited by one (and only one) of the two sides... Don´t get too upset with those little beasts.

The link you provided is broken, but googling "Brussels Lodestar tank" rendered a lot of images and webs.

And you are right - it is time for a modern, accurate, state-of-the-Art Mk.I-IV-V. Hey, they have just released a Char 2C !!!

Risking to become boring, let me thank you once again.

Greetings.

[jimbob1974]

Hi Lentorpe

I hope this is not too late to help but I've been looking at some of my books although it has no photographs a good book is The Boilerplate War by John Poley (first ones were built from boilerplate as the Royal Navy had a monopoly on armour plate) as it describes how the tanks were built also a bit about how undiching beams were used. If you do have an interest in WW1 tanks other very good books are The Ironcalds of Cambrai by Bryan Cooper and Cambai 1917 by Bryn Hammond. there is really not a lot of good photographic reference about on the net from the time. Fantastic pics killingholme. if you ever get an chance Bovington Tank museum has a very good collection of WW1 including "Little Willy" and "Mother"

[lentorpe]

Horrible, scary exam in less than one month - so you are not at all late

Thanks for the blbliography. When it is all over (sigh) I will try to locate those books.

Greetings

Edited April 14, 2014 by lentorpe