Duncan B Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 I know this is a heartbreaking situation, but I am amazed at how Instantaneous our culture has become. The area in which the search should be conducted has not even been clearly defined. History has shown how easily it is to not be able to find things in the vast expanse of the ocean. Think of how many times searches on all sides of WWII were conducted looking for entire fleets, having a general idea of where they should be, and not being able to locate them. Hopefully, the crash site will be located. But, given the total area that needs to be searched and the resources dedicated to it, luck more than anything else, will be the main player in the crash site discovery. If it has crashed at sea: I know some of the "Seabed Worker" vessel and ROV crew involved in the hunt for the Air France A330 and it took them 18 months solid searching to locate the wreckage. They had the advantage of knowing roughly where to look to start with. The Ocean surface is a vast area that can be covered reasonably quickly but the seabed is equally vast. Sidescan sonars etc can only search very borrow corridors and even then won't see everything. Without knowing where to start the search looking for a needle in a haystack is child's play by comparison. However maybe something per planned has happened: I find it hard to believe that there aren't satellite tracking systems fitted to aircraft, my car has one. It is totally independent of the other systems on the car, I can't switch it off and it is well hidden. There would be no way of finding and disabling one fitted somewhere in a 777. This story just gets stranger and stranger, I hope the aircraft and people turn up unharmed and some deal can be done to set them free. Duncan B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swordfish fairey Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 I have to worry what anyone would want an intact airliner for if it has been stolen and has landed somewhere..............Smudge 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuck Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 If it has crashed at sea: I know some of the "Seabed Worker" vessel and ROV crew involved in the hunt for the Air France A330 and it took them 18 months solid searching to locate the wreckage. They had the advantage of knowing roughly where to look to start with. The Ocean surface is a vast area that can be covered reasonably quickly but the seabed is equally vast. Sidescan sonars etc can only search very borrow corridors and even then won't see everything. Without knowing where to start the search looking for a needle in a haystack is child's play by comparison. However maybe something per planned has happened: I find it hard to believe that there aren't satellite tracking systems fitted to aircraft, my car has one. It is totally independent of the other systems on the car, I can't switch it off and it is well hidden. There would be no way of finding and disabling one fitted somewhere in a 777. This story just gets stranger and stranger, I hope the aircraft and people turn up unharmed and some deal can be done to set them free. Duncan B It would be nice to think the passengers and crew are alive and well even if being held hostage. But although i am no techno expert surly with all the electronic gizmos, ie smartphones, wifi cameras , laptops, etc etc that would have been on board that flight, then surly if high jacked some message would have been transmited as to the aircrafts where abouts . That is why I fear it was all over in a flash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robvulcan Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Its hard to believe any plane could be lost so successfully as this even a little Cessna but a 777 is ENORMOUS. to the point I felt compelled to take this photo for I who has loved planes all my life and regularly go to airports to watch airliners never realized until recently how massive they are.. Here is a 1/200th scale Vulcan and a 777 both are the same scale and the engine is bigger than the entire nose section of the Vulcan MASSIVE.... I thought the Vulcan was big but its just a bit large really. How the hell can you loose a plane that large. I guess compared to the Ocean its but a pixel on the monitor. Hope the people are safe and the 777. I was shocked at the size difference the 777 is epic. Cheers Rob and once again thoughts to the people involved Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dads203 Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Latest news states the onboard reporting system was disconnected and that the aircraft flew in north west direction for a further 7 hours. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-26591056 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robvulcan Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Such an odd story this. Has any other incident in aviation ever bore any similarity to this one ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Vor!!! Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Flight 19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robvulcan Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Flight 19 How could I forget that one (smacks head) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawty82 Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Flight 19? Is that the old US Navy training flight lost in the Bermuda Triangle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pte1643 Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 To touch on what Duncan said... How is it even possible to turn off your tracking and reporting systems, etc in a PASSENGER aircraft? There is an obvious advantage in a Military environment. But in an airliner??? There shouldn't even be a switch. ... I may have over simplified that a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dads203 Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 To touch on what Duncan said... How is it even possible to turn off your tracking and reporting systems, etc in a PASSENGER aircraft? There is an obvious advantage in a Military environment. But in an airliner??? There shouldn't even be a switch. ... I may have over simplified that a bit. Possible Hijacking with someone who knows the systems on the aircraft type? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eng Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Ok, suppose the current info is accurate and the jet was off-track, now flying an unplanned route, not communicating, but tracked (partially maybe) on military radar in Malaysia, the question I have is why wouldn't you scramble a couple of Hornets to go see what's going on? I find this whole thing deeply disturbing, mainly from the point of the poor passengers, crew and families, but also the constant release of info that is subsequently retracted or contradicted. I cannot help myself from suspecting the whole truth isn't being told. I've worked on commercial airliners all of my working life, and been on and around the 777, and the disappearance of this aircraft with no trace at all is very hard to grasp. Eng Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eng Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 "There shouldn't even be a switch." I agree but pretty much all aircraft systems have a circuit breaker that can be pulled for troubleshooting, isolation for component changes/repair and I couldn't ever see this being done away with. I believe the 787 and possibly the A380 now have "virtual circuit breakers" rather than old fashioned mechanical pull to trip CB's. Eng Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnT Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Looks like they are saying that they have concluded someone on board switched all the comma systems off deliberately while changing course and flying on several hours Does not look like Malaya authorities ATC Air Force etc cover themselves in glory here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Jones Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 This question was asked on BBC News this morning , " How can the aircraft transponders be turned off ?", the answer was that they are often turned off when the aircraft is on the ground to stop the signals overpowering an airports systems , so it would be quite easy for any knowledgible person to turn them of in the air. I have to worry what anyone would want an intact airliner for if it has been stolen and has landed somewhere..............Smudge I also read a speculation where the aircraft is hi-jacked,landed in a rogue state, armed with a nuke and detonated over a soft target , sounded so plausible it was frightening, just speculation however. Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xffw45343tg Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 My flying instructor once told me that modern airliners have undocumented switches that allow them to squawk 7500 without using the usual transponder controls. None of the circumstances whereby changing the transponder is not possible make pleasant contemplation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheshiretaurus Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 I find it hard to believe that there aren't satellite tracking systems fitted to aircraft, my car has one. It is totally independent of the other systems on the car, I can't switch it off and it is well hidden. There would be no way of finding and disabling one fitted somewhere in a 777. To touch on what Duncan said... How is it even possible to turn off your tracking and reporting systems, etc in a PASSENGER aircraft? There is an obvious advantage in a Military environment. But in an airliner??? There shouldn't even be a switch. ... I may have over simplified that a bit. As a commercial pilot I would not want to have any electrical component on the aircraft that I could not disable or cut the power to in the event of an in-flight fire. This is why there are circuit breakers on everything. On a car the situation is different in that if a fire starts you are able to stop and get out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybookcase Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 What would be it's range after it turned round? i.e. what countries could it reach? BB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheshiretaurus Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 What would be it's range after it turned round? i.e. what countries could it reach? BB This map is on the Wikipedia article Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Vor!!! Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Get me Bond Moneypenny I've a job for him 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobby57 Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 (edited) Very sad and perplexing. Your illustration ^ shows how hopeless it all seems Cheshiretaurus, and now they're considering pilot suicide...how more depressing can it get? Edited March 15, 2014 by Nobby57 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 All I am going to say is remember the Korean 747 and the Iran Air A300! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobby57 Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Nothing is ruled out Paul, but I think the various military systems would have picked up on anything like that. But what gets me is the Malays have intel, but are fudging it all around...first the aircraft goes tens of thousands of feet higher, turns westward, descends then rises again...was there a catastrophic failure in the cabin? Experts say impossible due to the various systems back up, but I'm wondering now, what do the Malays actually know, and what is the likelihood of an explosive device being planted in the nose gear well. Sorry to speculate...I don't normally do this when lives are lost, but this must be one of the greatest mysteries of all time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobby57 Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 I've just read this on MSN...'The missing Malaysian airliner was deliberately diverted and continued flying for more than six hours after losing contact with the ground, Malaysia's leader said.' Oh dear...very odd! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzn20 Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Ever had the idea we are not getting the full story? All this info from radar, satellite , comms etc. is sneaking out drip, drip a week later. That info was all there at the time. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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