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weemanreturns

Avro CF-105 Arrow (Again!)

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Hello out there. I am nearing completion of the Hobbycraft 1/72 Avro Arrow (first issue), and it has been a real labour of love (and frustrating). I have searched all sites for advice along the way, and made numerous modifications to the kit following various scale drawings, of which there appears to be a lot of conflict. I have now finished the mods and got what looks to me like an Arrow. It is not perfect, but it is close enough for me. I cannot post any pics as I am still trying to finish it the best I can. One thing that intrigues me though is the 'absence' of navigation and landing lights. If there are any on the prototypes, where are they positioned. I have looked at a lot of photos and drawings but cannot find any. Maybe I am looking too hard. Has anyone out there got any ideas?

Regards

WEEMAN

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There are navigation lights on small fairings at the end of both wings. There appear to be two nav lights on the trailing edge of the fin above the rudder. Production examples would have had two landing lamps on the front undercarriage leg. This info from "Avro Arrow. The Story Of the Avro Arrow From It's Evolution To It's Extinction", Organ, Page, Watson,Wilkinson, Boston Mills Press, 2000, ISBN 1-55046-047-1.

HTH
Andy

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Love the Arrow! The starboard wingtip navigation light is visible in this photo:

Arrow-earlyflight.jpeg

And the two vertical tail lights above the rudder are shown in this drawing:

rudderx61.gif

And the nose gear light is here:

nosegearx62.gif

Not the best pix, but I hope it helps!

Cheers,

Bill

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Just found this one, it's from the full-scale replica built recently, but it seems to match the nose gear drawing above.

DSC_0033a1.gif

Cheers,

Bill

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The 'replica' has numerous issues with it. Taxi lights were never fitted to the 5 operational aircraft or the first MK2 (RL*206).

This is the forward landing gear from RL*206. Note lack of taxi lights.

Dsc_0182_zps13807789.jpg

The navigation lights were on the tips of the wings and on the vertical fin.

Edited by DavidWinter

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Thanks, David. Good information to know! Were the landing lights planned for production? I thought the drawing was correct, especially from this photo where I "thought" I was seeing the two landing lights above the oleo scissors.

Avro_Arrow_11.jpg

Any idea what those two bright spots on the nose gear right at the bottom of the gear door are? I see now upon a closer look that they aren't large enough or in the right position to be the lights shown in the drawing. What am I seeing there? I don't recognize anything there in your photo - maybe it's just some trick of the light and my brain (fried from breathing too many Mr. Color fumes)! :)

Also, if you know the colour (if any) of the lights on the tail that will come in handy for my Arrow model when I get around to building it. Thanks!

Cheers,

Bill

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There are three small circular cut out areas of the inside of the gear door frame. It's just part of the frame design.

Nope, not there, I mean below the bottom of the gear door and above the oleo scissors. Two bright spots that look like they are on either side of the nose gear strut, or either side of the other part that looks like a big shock absorber.

Cheers,

Bill

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Nope, not there, I mean below the bottom of the gear door and above the oleo scissors. Two bright spots that look like they are on either side of the nose gear strut, or either side of the other part that looks like a big shock absorber.

Cheers,

Bill

Trick of the light I think. I've had a good look at a lot of photos of prototypes and cant see taxi/landing lights on any of them. With regards to tail lights I think the top one should be red, it certainly appears darker in contemporary pictures

HTH

Andy

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Many Thanks to all who have replied to my original query. You have helped me tremendously with you photos, drawings and comments. I thought it was strange that I couldn't see any landing lights on the prototypes. Now I know they were never fitted. Completely missed the navigation lights on the wingtips (aren't they small!) and on the tail. There is no suggestion of either on the kit. I will now be able to carry on with my quest.

Best Regards

WEEMAN

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There is no suggestion of either on the kit. I will now be able to carry on with my quest.

Best Regards

WEEMAN

There's little suggestion of anything to do with the Arrow when it comes to the first issue of that kit.

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Hi 'John R'. I did indeed read your posts,and that was what really inspired me. I had read a lot of posts on the merits of the various 're-incarnations' of this kit. Having already bought the 'original' issue kit, I decided to 'have a go'. Firstly because I like a modelling challenge (the contrail 1/72 TSR-2 is one instance!), and secondly because I 'CBA' buying the latest version. I never take pics of kit builds because I am basically lazy. I took aboard some of your mod comments. I widened the fuselage as you did, but put inserts in the outside edges, rather than cut the fuselage in half in the middle. I am also opening the front cockpit and have basically 'sort of' detailed it. I had to scratch build a new windscreen though. I lengthened the fuselage by cutting it at the start of the weapons bay, and adding an insert, as I decided that the weapons bay on the kit was too short. Other than that, most of the mods were similar to yours. I found some confliction with various scale drawings, so I took the easiest option and used those I found that closely matched the kit the best. I must say I am sure my finished effort will look nowhere as good as yours, but to me it looks like an Arrow, and that is good enough for me. I am still trying to finish it, but we have adopted a 'kitten cat' and he thinks he is more important than my modelling at present, so I have to choose my moments. Many thanks for your reply.

Best Regards and take care.

WEEMAN

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Hi 'DavidWinter'. Couldn't agree more. I think that goes for quite a lot of kits. I have YET to find the perfect kit. But, I ask myself, would I, or other modellers, REALLY want that? There is something pleasantly 'masochistic' about carving up a kit in an attempt to make it look more accurate, and put our own 'stamp' on it. As I said, I like a challenge, and the Hobbycraft 'Arrow' (first edition) is exactly that. Many thanks for your reply

Best Regards

WEEMAN

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I have YET to find the perfect kit. But, I ask myself, would I, or other modellers, REALLY want that? There is something pleasantly 'masochistic' about carving up a kit in an attempt to make it look more accurate, and put our own 'stamp' on it.

I am a lucky man - my entire stash consists of imperfect kits! Hope to see some finished pictures of your Arrow!

Cheers,

Bill

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Hi 'DavidWinter'. Couldn't agree more. I think that goes for quite a lot of kits. I have YET to find the perfect kit. But, I ask myself, would I, or other modellers, REALLY want that? There is something pleasantly 'masochistic' about carving up a kit in an attempt to make it look more accurate, and put our own 'stamp' on it. As I said, I like a challenge, and the Hobbycraft 'Arrow' (first edition) is exactly that. Many thanks for your reply

Best Regards

WEEMAN

A bit of a challenge is one thing but sheer incompetence/carelessness/'couldn't care less' on the part of the manufacturer is another.

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Hi 'JohnR'. I know what you mean. There appears to be a lack of the 'grey matter' with some model manufacturers. I can understand to a point the lack of detail in some areas, such as cockpits, u/c and weapons bays, as sometimes the cost of making moulds to include these could be prohibitive. What I cannot understand is why go to the trouble of producing a kit if the basic dimensions are incorrect. That will inevitably affect sales. There are however numerous scale drawings of the same aircraft which contradict each other, which is a problem. But there are also hundreds of aircraft in museums, or at airshows to obtain measurements. Having said all this, I am still thankful there are manufacturers that produce these kits, regardless of total accuracy, as per the 'Arrow' in question.

Best Regards

WEEMAN

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Hi 'NavyBird'. Ha Ha. Nice one!!. I think I should have been more specific and said 'I have yet to find a kit that doesn't need any modifications, add-on's or decal sheets'. Of course any kits we buy will need one or the other to satisfy our needs.But, heck, we are modellers. People years ago had nothing like the range of kits we have today, so I for one am very thankful.

Regards

WEEMAN

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