woody37 Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Hi guys, Building the Hasegawa Romanian Hurricane and the instructions call for Sky undersides with a single black wing (up to centre line). I just want to check that this is correct as some RAF aircraft had aluminium rear end, black wing and a white wing. Are the instructions correct before I slap some paint on? Difficult to get references for the Romanian aircraft. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Headroom Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Your best bet is to ask Radu (Biznan?) a member of this forum as he built a superb mk.I from the old Revell 1/32 kit for a modelling mag many years ago. Trevor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Hi guys, Building the Hasegawa Romanian Hurricane and the instructions call for Sky undersides with a single black wing (up to centre line). I just want to check that this is correct as some RAF aircraft had aluminium rear end, black wing and a white wing. Are the instructions correct before I slap some paint on? Difficult to get references for the Romanian aircraft. Thanks Neil your supposition is correct, Hasgawa have confused their RAF undersides. The Romanian planes were supplied early 1940, in standard RAF camp, so underside was white/black wing with aluminium under nose and rear fuselage/tail. [standard factory production scheme from Munich crisis pre war up to june 1940 when sky came in ] This is from memory, my Romanian Fighter Colours is in a box at the moment, but this was the same the Finnish Hurricanes. The black port wing the rest sky was from nov 1940-april 1941 IIRC. Note, for a Hase kit you will also need 5 spoke wheels and early DH Spitfire type prop, the kit one is the later small pointy Hurricane type DH spinner. edit - according to this http://modelingmadness.com/splfeat/kr/has48b.htm They supply the Spitfire rotol prop. Sprue 'Y'. Also wrong. The DH one from the old Airfix hurricane is the right early DH type BTW the only Romanian exception are 3 yugoslav built Hurricane which stayed in Yugoslav colours, 3 tone uppers sky like undersides, but they are planes number 13-15. Before you start pondering on doing one of these, they had fabric wings The British supplied 12 in total, and they were numbered 1-12. HTH T PS - check [or don't if you want a quiet life] the Hasegawa decals, there are a lot of little variations in the Romanian St Michael crosses. The book mentioned shows NINE variants. A lot of decals get them a bit wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 The Aluminium nose and rear fuselage *probably* only applied to aircraft completed with before the adoption of black and white undersides that would originally have been finished with Aluminium lowers. Aircraft completed after the adoption of the black and white scheme should be all black and white divided along the centre line. Probably! John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 No, the scheme I specified was the standard factory supplied scheme. early 1940 built plane, after the Romanian and Finnish [in the N**** serial blocks] Note white under starboard wing, but alu under nose/tail. Hmm, not very clear, but visible. edit - from Ducimus monograph, page 1 [of 2] of undersides, note bottom right drawing. hit google. Romanian planes. Yellow spinner, alu under nose, B/W wings. Note black port wing, alu under rear fuselage also 5 spoke wheel. Note later on, as in last pic, the planes got national colours prop stripes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody37 Posted February 23, 2014 Author Share Posted February 23, 2014 Thanks for some quick responses. Troy, I'm also building the Crois de Lorraine kit which includes the earlier propeller so I can use that. The Romanian one has yellow nose and rear fuse stripe which looks similar to the last picture (although can't see if it has a yellow nose but does have the rear fuse stripe). Trevor, just found the thread on this excellent build: http://forum.largescaleplanes.com/index.php?showtopic=6090&page=27 I notice Radu has used the smaller pointed spinner on his (sorry for the poor descriptions!), the alternative one I have from the French one is more bulbous than this. Is there another spinner variant then? Also, Radu uses the earlier exhausts which is a PITA as I've just bought some resin laters ones for it! Cheers, Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Neat build. Except for Grey-green inner tubes, insdie flaps and gear wells and radiator. Should be aluminium, see the preserved Finnish plane posted here often. Radu is pretty good on Hurricanes, but his MDC wings say that their is not a fabric covered wing root panel, which is wrong, as is the grey-green detail i mention. OK, 4 spinners. the one from the Croix kit is later DH type [for MkI] , no 2 in pic below, and Hurricane Rotol for MkII, no 3 What you want is a no.4 Airfix vs Hasegawa from http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234951195-148th-hurricane-mk-i-spinner/ Edit in new pics T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody37 Posted February 23, 2014 Author Share Posted February 23, 2014 Just found the smaller spinner in the box, so got the right prop. Just need exhausts and wheels now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Just found the smaller spinner in the box, so got the right prop. Just need exhausts and wheels now Please see edited post above. The hase one is good for Sea Hurricanes Mk I's and Middle East Mk I's post 1940, but not an early plane. These had the Spitfire type DH Props. The Hurricane DH type seems to be standard in the ME, maybe due to metal blades, and the weight was helpful on Sea Hurricanes to counter balance the arrestor hook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody37 Posted February 23, 2014 Author Share Posted February 23, 2014 I might do a compromise on the prop spinner unless I can get hold of one. It's a slippery slope getting an accurate build!!!! Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 you can....check your PM's 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leyreynolds Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 See MMP's Romanian Fighter Colours title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyverns4 Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Hi, From, Morosanu, T.T. & Melinte, D.A., 2010, Romanian Fighter Colours 1941-1945, MMP Books, White (Rainbow) Series No. 9111, Stratus, Sandomierz, Poland, pp. 192, ISBN 978-8389450-90-6. 12 Hurricanes delivered in Dark Earth and Dark Green upper surface in 'A' & 'B' patterns. The lower surface was finished thus, port wing black, starboard wing white meeting at the center line. The fuselage rear of a line drawn across the rear of the inner flaps was aluminium dope, as where the tailplanes. At least one photo, P. 40, and a plate P. 47 shown Hurricane No. 2 with a sliver dop lower cowling panel as well. From the spring of 1941 the engine cowling, undersurface of the wing tips and a band encompassing the fuselage ahead of the fin were painted yellow to follow Axis regulations. The spinner was painted 1/3 yellow, 2/3 black. Some also had two, (or possibly three, (national colours?)), coloured band applied cord-wise on the propellor blades HTH! Christian the Married and exiled to africa, with his reference library! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Test Graham Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Troy, I haven't seen the evidence for Hurricanes with the large-diameter spinner as used on Spitfires with DH props. A few Hurricanes had DH props before the war, as did many in France, but are you saying that these had the same blades as the Spitfire with a smaller spinner? In that case what was the difference between the blades? As I understand it, the key point about the late-1940/41 Mk.I/DH combination, that differed from 1939/40 examples, was that they had the constant speed version of the DH prop rather than the two-position variable pitch ones, but I know of no difference between the props and spinners of the two versions. I suspect the lack of Rotol propellers on Middle East fighters was simply a matter of limited production. The DH prop was also standardised on overseas Spitfires, which turned out to be a mistake, but we are drifting from Romanian examples.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Hi Graham No, the early DH prop fitted to Hurricanes was the Spitfire type, and slightly too large, and a little blunter, and was fitted to export planes as well, see pic of Romanian above. eg 85 sq May 1940. EDIT - in the Ducimus Camo and MArkings on Hurricane. Page 58 - N2358, 73 sq, Spitfire type DH, dated may 1940 Page 61 - N2479, 56 Sq, Hurricane type DH, dated April 1940 So, it seems the Hurricane DH came in earlier than I thought. The specific DH Hurricane spinner, seen in the Middle East and on Sea Hurricane I' s They have oil splash rings fitted as well which make the spinners look smaller. AFAIK the blades are the same. The early examples were 2 speed, but a constant speed unit conversion developed in early 1940 and fitted in time for the BoB, and does not change the spinner. The difference is better seen in the Science Musuem Spitfire and Hurricane, Note the visible back plate, and blunter shape more here - http://www.primeportal.net/hangar/mark_hayward/supermarine_spitfire_mk1a_p9444/index.php?Page=1 The Hurricane has been fitted with the Hurricane unit, as was used by a training unit [there is a photo on here of L1592 on Horse guard parade in DFS markings, the current scheme was done when restored by Hawkers in the mid 50's] Note sharper profile, and lack of visible backplate more pictures here http://www.primeportal.net/hangar/mark_hayward/hurricane_mk1_l1592/index.php?Page=1 This is what the not very clear drawing I posted above shows. if anyone knows any more of the details about this please add to this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Test Graham Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Thanks, which presumably means I don't need all the Quickboost props I've bought... However, in the first book I picked up (Crowood) I found both types in the Battle of France, so the dedicated Hurricane style was available that early too. Now to look at the Airfix Mk.I to see which spinner they provided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Hi Graham I just edited my post to say the same thing, which I'd not noticed before, so thanks for making me look again! perhaps they were introduced on the prorduction line in the N**** series, from the two serials I mention above. cheers Troy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody37 Posted February 25, 2014 Author Share Posted February 25, 2014 On the pic above, the Hurricane spinner looks closer to the No.2 shape in the diagram earlier Troy. A little confused what is what now!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Neil I just typed up a response, hit the wrong key and *&(*^(%(&%&$ went into the void. damn. I re- found this 10 page rambling thread of Romanian Hurricanes http://www.worldwar2.ro/forum/index.php?showtopic=1857&st=0 note denes = Denes Bernad http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/432733.Denes_Bernad It seems the planes were from aug and sep 1939 http://www.worldwar2.ro/forum/index.php?showtopic=1857&st=105# L2077, L2078, L2085, L2093 to L2097, L2104, L2112 to L2114 to Romanian Air Force 8 to 9.39. meaning built with fabric wings, but getting metal ones before delivery, as all the pics show metal the thread is 10 pages, and rambles and bitches a bit but has some useful pics. In the case of the spinner these Now, depspite my comments on the Science Musuem exhibits, it looks like there might be a 3rd early type of DH prop fitted, as the preserved Finnish plane has a similar/same spinner shape as the Spitfire, but no visible backplate. from http://www.pienoismallit.net/galleria/referenssi_1536/ from a modelling point, use the Airfix spinner and prop [the Hasegawa blades are skinny] and fill the backplate line. 3 DH spinner types? oh no.... I used to think there was just one ....then 2 now 3? crikey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Test Graham Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 The preserved Finnish machine also has an oil spill ring, which was not present on early Mk.Is, and supposedly only added because of the oil leaks from the Rotol spinner. I suspect this entire fit is a bodge, not necessarily ever an operational fit and certainly not an "as delivered" case. I'd stick with the two kinds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Eisenman Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Someone screwed with the prop amd spinner on the Finnish Hurricane.... What oil ring? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Test Graham Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 If it ain't an oil spill ring, then it's a spinner baseplate. Troy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody37 Posted February 26, 2014 Author Share Posted February 26, 2014 Very useful thread guys, Thankyou for the replies Think I'm understanding now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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