Skyhunter66 Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Ok so I have been given two of the vintage Heller 1:48 Mirage 111 C/B which is great and gives me the opportunity to build both versions. I haven't built the wonderful Mirage before so need some advice if I may from Mirage experts?! Mirage 111c - the kit gives me the Vexin version - can anyone point me in the right direction for references of this machine? Also what are the camo colours - looks to be sand, brown on top and blue/grey undersides? Alternatively can anyone recommend any other good schemes/versions? Aftermarket - its an old kit so are there any aftermarket upgrades I can get for this kit? Mirage 111B - Cote d'Or - once agin what are the accurate colours for this machine Any help appreciated and many thanks Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Starting from the aftermarket, there may have been something done by some french company, might be worth googling. In any case, I'm sure there's aftermarket around for the more recent Eduard kit and these sets could be made to fit the Heller kit. SBS for example has a full set with cockpit and wheel wells. Colour scheme: the Vexin aicrafts were indeed in a sand/brown over blue-grey scheme. This is the scheme carried by the last Mirage III-C in french service. Other colour schemes will depend on what country you're interested in. The Mirage III-C entered service in France in a natural metal scheme with red flashes around the intakes and behind the canopy. These were later reduced in size. At the end of the '70s a number of aircrafts received the scheme more usually associated with the Mirage F-1, blue/grey over silver. And of course, the Vexin aircrafts had the desert scheme being based in Djibouti. Israel and South Africa originally received the III-C in the NM scheme with large red flashes. Later Israel camouflaged them in their standard 3-colour scheme of the day. Keep in mind that at some point Israeli Mirages received the same engine of the III-E with a different rear part. These aircrafts were later sold to Argentina. To build one of these, you need some additional bits that I don't know if are available as aftermarket. South African Mirages received a camo scheme with sand and green over a very light grey. Some received a grey low vis scheme at the end of their career. I don't know what colour scheme is proposed by the box for the III-B, anyway French Bs too started in NM with large red flashes, later reduced in size. Then they received a NATO scheme of dark green and dark grey over silver. The Israeli aircrafts started in NM and were later camouflaged... however I believe the camouflaged 2-seaters had the later exhaust. The South African aircrafts followed the same schemes of the single seaters, but I'm not sure they received the low visibility scheme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panoz Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 (edited) Having built the latest boxing of the kit (same one that you have) I remember that the decal options were:1) Mirage IIIC EC 3/10 "Vexin" in sand/brown over grey camo.2) Mirage IIIC EC 2/10 "Seine" in Mirage F-1 style blue grey over silver camo.3) Mirage IIIB EC 2/.2 "Cote d' Or" in bare metal.If you must use the kit decals then your options are limited.You could do the EC 2/10 aircraft in bare metal and the EC 2/2 trainer in Grey/Green over silver camo.Check the following link (in French but with loads of photos of camouflaged EC 2/2 IIIBs):http://forum.aviationsmilitaires.net/viewtopic.php?t=1769&p=95356 If you want to use aftermarket decals here is a very interesting Israeli aircraft from Guideline's IDF/AF book that still uses the original ATAR 09B engine with the characteristic petal exhausts. Edited January 30, 2014 by Panoz 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmatthewbacon Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Lucky man -- I think it's a nice kit. I can't help with the marking options because my boxing was even older, but if you want aftermarket decals, Berna make several of 1/48 Mirage sheets. 48-10, 20 and 101 for the single seaters, 48-34 for the IIIB. I used them on mine and they were very good to work with. You can see them all here: http://www.tonyshop.fr/achat/index.php?catid=523&start=0 Hannants also stock them, with a slightly more limited range currently available. I've got the full build of the IIIB here: http://www.uamf.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=256&t=8074 It should give you some idea of the tricky areas. I just did some scratch detailing around the cockpit -- no need for an aftermarket set if you don't have to... The biggest issue is the fit around the canopy. Bizarrely, my OLD canopy was the right width, but distorted. A nice BMer sent me a replacement to help me hit my deadline. When the one from Heller arrived (which I wasn't sure would ever show up...) it was clearly the right part, but they sent me both the canopy and windscreen, and they were significantly wider than the ones in the old kit. The current windscreen actually fits completely over the old one... Any advice I can give -- just ask.. bestest, M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Brown Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 I have that kit to build as an Australian jet using the Red Roo conversion. Eduard makes a photo etched set for it (48-128), and I picked up the Scale Aircraft Conversions metal landing gear because I'd read that the main gear struts are a bit weak, although from a load-carrying point of view, I'm not sure the SAC struts are going to be much of an improvement. I also have a resin seat from Hi-Tech, but I don't recall where I got it. Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyhunter66 Posted January 30, 2014 Author Share Posted January 30, 2014 Well a big thank you for all this help - lots of things here I hadn't considered and some great references which I really appreciate. The kits themselves are interesting in that they were given to me by the brother of the guy that used to do the instructions for Airfix and Heller kits so they include his drawings - wonderful piece of history I think. There is a also a Lancaster kit with what looks like the original technical drawings which are very interesting indeed and which I have decided to send back to Airfix for their heritage guys. Now the Mirage - I am liking the idea of the the 'B' as as a metal finish although I say that with some reservation! I had a nightmare with an F104 with Alclad a a year or so ago so I might see how 'clean' the build is first before I commit to this scheme as if any lesson I learnt during that episode the most important was a blemish free surface! . Hannants have some of the Tonyshop stuff which is useful and I think I may order that in - however the rest of the two kits are in good condition and I was delighted a few minutes ago when I found in the one box some etched parts and a complete set of metal wheels! For the C version I think I will stick with the Vexin version although part of me is thinking why not do two versions of the B. Anyway I hope you don't all mind me coming back to you for further help as I get going which i hope will be this weekend? thanks Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyhunter66 Posted January 30, 2014 Author Share Posted January 30, 2014 Lucky man -- I think it's a nice kit. I can't help with the marking options because my boxing was even older, but if you want aftermarket decals, Berna make several of 1/48 Mirage sheets. 48-10, 20 and 101 for the single seaters, 48-34 for the IIIB. I used them on mine and they were very good to work with. You can see them all here: http://www.tonyshop.fr/achat/index.php?catid=523&start=0 Hannants also stock them, with a slightly more limited range currently available. I've got the full build of the IIIB here: http://www.uamf.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=256&t=8074 It should give you some idea of the tricky areas. I just did some scratch detailing around the cockpit -- no need for an aftermarket set if you don't have to... The biggest issue is the fit around the canopy. Bizarrely, my OLD canopy was the right width, but distorted. A nice BMer sent me a replacement to help me hit my deadline. When the one from Heller arrived (which I wasn't sure would ever show up...) it was clearly the right part, but they sent me both the canopy and windscreen, and they were significantly wider than the ones in the old kit. The current windscreen actually fits completely over the old one... Any advice I can give -- just ask.. bestest, M. Thank you - this is really helpful. I had a quick look at your build and it has definitely given me inspiration and I will keep referencing it over the forthcoming weeks. I was particularly struck by the way you mated the fuselage - fixing the wings first and it makes complete sense! Chris Having built the latest boxing of the kit (same one that you have) I remember that the decal options were: 1) Mirage IIIC EC 3/10 "Vexin" in sand/brown over grey camo. 2) Mirage IIIC EC 2/10 "Seine" in Mirage F-1 style blue grey over silver camo. 3) Mirage IIIB EC 2/.2 "Cote d' Or" in bare metal. If you must use the kit decals then your options are limited. You could do the EC 2/10 aircraft in bare metal and the EC 2/2 trainer in Grey/Green over silver camo. Check the following link (in French but with loads of photos of camouflaged EC 2/2 IIIBs): http://forum.aviationsmilitaires.net/viewtopic.php?t=1769&p=95356 If you want to use aftermarket decals here is a very interesting Israeli aircraft from Guideline's IDF/AF book that still uses the original ATAR 09B engine with the characteristic petal exhausts. Oh this is a tremendous reference so many thanks. I haven't even scratched the surface as yet! Thanks Chris Sorry another quick question - do any of the Eduard canopy masks fit this kit? thanks Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozothenutter Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 just noticed this topic...building this atm, how are you getting on? one really troublesome parte is the wing, it needs shimming on the inside to get the upper surfaces up to the fuselage, this will aslo get rid of the pancake look the top surfaces have......this creates big holes though in the main wheel wells, i'm filling them up with scrap card (very tedious), but may go with resin wheel wells for the second one. do NOT fit the cockpit/wheelwell assembly to the cockpit side, leave loose while joining the front fuselage halves, and then centre the wheelwell (mine is a little crooked) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyhunter66 Posted March 15, 2016 Author Share Posted March 15, 2016 just noticed this topic...building this atm, how are you getting on? one really troublesome parte is the wing, it needs shimming on the inside to get the upper surfaces up to the fuselage, this will aslo get rid of the pancake look the top surfaces have......this creates big holes though in the main wheel wells, i'm filling them up with scrap card (very tedious), but may go with resin wheel wells for the second one. do NOT fit the cockpit/wheelwell assembly to the cockpit side, leave loose while joining the front fuselage halves, and then centre the wheelwell (mine is a little crooked) Hi - sorry I just spotted this! Yes I finished it 2 years ago now but I had quite a few issues with both kits. This is the result which given the problems and age of the kit I was happy with! Its a bit dusty but here you go. How did yours go? chris 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don McIntyre Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 How do the IIIB parts fit? Is the nose separate or did Heller mold different fuselage halves? I've seen the kit on eBay a few times and I've been tempted... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyhunter66 Posted March 16, 2016 Author Share Posted March 16, 2016 How do the IIIB parts fit? Is the nose separate or did Heller mold different fuselage halves? I've seen the kit on eBay a few times and I've been tempted... part fit is reasonable and the nose is separate - ok for its age I would say but the glazing was pretty awful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fernando Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 I have that kit to build as an Australian jet using the Red Roo conversion. Eduard makes a photo etched set for it (48-128), and I picked up the Scale Aircraft Conversions metal landing gear because I'd read that the main gear struts are a bit weak, although from a load-carrying point of view, I'm not sure the SAC struts are going to be much of an improvement. I also have a resin seat from Hi-Tech, but I don't recall where I got it. Ben Hi, Ben, It has always struck me as odd that the RR conversion uses the IIIB kit as donor... perhaps to compensate for the longer front fuselage? Anyway, the Kinetic kit has made that conversion obsolescent. Possibly the exhaust is better than that in the kit, though. FErnando Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozothenutter Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 Loooool....serves me right for not checking thread age.... Still working on mine...making things fit etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisov Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 And theres a 'D' coming from Kinetic Cheers Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmatthewbacon Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 (edited) Doh... wrong thread... M. Edited March 24, 2016 by cmatthewbacon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Russell Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 H odd that the RR conversion uses the IIIB kit as donor... perhaps to compensate for the longer front fuselage? Exactly right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacificmustang Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 Advice? Ditch one . Seriously Eduard and Hobby Boss both make beautiful IIIC's Both kits will make up lovely from the box without need for aftermarket, and they can easily be sought second hand Why put yourself through the pain of the POS heller kit Bruce 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 Exactly Bruce !! spot on advice...way to go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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