1/72 - Cessna 180/185 & U-17A/B Skywagon by Kovozávody Prostějov (KP) - released - Red Roo Models Cessna 185 correction set

[Space Ranger]

For details of 180/185 changes from year to year, see here:

https://www.skywagons.com/cessna-skywagon-year-changes

[Smudge]

On 21/01/2014 at 07:12, Homebee said:

Kovozávody Prostějov (KP) is to release a family of 1/72nd Cessna 150/152/180 & U-17 Skywagon kits

 

So, it's been over eight years waiting for these little Cessna's  Still no sign of the 150 /152. I wonder if I'll ever see them in my lifetime? Or before my eyesight fails me or I end up in a Home.

 

It's a shame that they seem to have some errors and quality issues. It is also disappointing to read the negative comments and to get the feeling that these little kit's may not be well received.  Of course it is only fair to note the errors. This is how things improve and it drives the standards up. Plus of course, they point me in the right direction when it comes to building and getting things as correct as I can. But, I think it's only fair to balance these issues by pointing out; who else is making 1/72 General Aviation subjects in injected plastic, that are easily available from mainstream suppliers, in the UK/Europe? Errr.........nobody.

 

I hope the sales will be good, and encourage the release of some other similar General Aviation subjects. (Cessna 150/152, Piper Tomahawk, Grumman Cheetah, Cessna Caravan etc etc...)

 

I have received my first three boxing's, and I'll still be getting the fourth, the 'red one'. Although the decal options are fairly ok, I do hope that we might see some enterprising aftermarket sheets. I'd love some Alaskan bush planes or the sort of thing that @follasha and the like are doing on the Khee-Kha site. I'm afraid that doing my own decals is a bit beyond me at the present. Maybe these kits will encourage me to give it a go.

 

http://opland-freeman.com/khee-kha/kit005.htm

 

Cheers.

 

Edited August 19, 2022 by Smudge
Khee-Kha link

[Space Ranger]

7 hours ago, Smudge said:

who else is making 1/72 General Aviation subjects in injected plastic, that are easily available from mainstream suppliers, in the UK/Europe? Errr.........nobody.

VFRmodels of the UK is producing some fine models of such aircraft. They are 3-D printed, not injection molded, but include decals and, in some cases, optional parts. Give them a try.

 

Note: I have no connection with VFRmodels other than as a satisfied customer and a provider of suggestions and drawings for future releases.

[Homebee]

11 hours ago, Smudge said:

(...) But, I think it's only fair to balance these issues by pointing out; who else is making 1/72 General Aviation subjects in injected plastic, that are easily available from mainstream suppliers, in the UK/Europe? Errr.........nobody.

 

I hope the sales will be good, and encourage the release of some other similar General Aviation subjects. (Cessna 150/152, Piper Tomahawk, Grumman Cheetah, Cessna Caravan etc etc...) 

 

https://www.facebook.com/vfrmodels

https://vfrmodels.co.uk/shop/

https://vfrmodels.co.uk/

V.P.

[Smudge]

10 hours ago, Space Ranger said:

VFRmodels of the UK is producing some fine models of such aircraft. They are 3-D printed, not injection molded, but include decals and, in some cases, optional parts. Give them a try.

 

6 hours ago, Homebee said:

https://www.facebook.com/vfrmodels

https://vfrmodels.co.uk/shop/

https://vfrmodels.co.uk/

 

Thanks guy's. Although I don't seem to have posted any comments on the VFRmodels/Cessna 150 topic, I did see it. I checked out the web site and added a Cessna 152 to my 'Wish list' on Scalemates. It's worth noting that a lot of the models offered are now out of stock (and have been for some time) including the Cessna 150. I don't know if these will ever be re-released. They look like great little kits's. But, a lot of them do still have vac-form canopies, including the 152. I think that's probably why I haven't jumped in a bought a few. I just get a bit nervous about messing them up. 

 

I think, given the endless delay with the KP kit's that I might bite the bullet and give a VFR kit a go. I hope they re-release some of the sold out one's.

 

Cheers.

[Space Ranger]

7 hours ago, Smudge said:

I think, given the endless delay with the KP kit's that I might bite the bullet and give a VFR kit a go. I hope they re-release some of the sold out one's.

He has re-released some of the sold-out kits. But his new ones seem to be in such demand that he has little time to devote to the older ones. And I have done my best to keep him busy with suggestions for new ones!

[Giorgio N]

On 8/16/2022 at 8:18 PM, CarLos said:

 

Another proof of the lack of care put in this kit is in the next photo. You don't need to measure the alternative wing tips to be sure that they are not symmetric (and I have "old KP" kits with sharper details).

 

 

This picture tells a lot of the frustration I have with many KP/AZ kits ! Yes, I understand that several in their range are short-run kits and shouldn't be compared to kits grom the big companies but others have made short run kits with higher quality plastic parts for many years. Even Ventura kits from the '90s featured parts much better looking than these!

I'd be interested in a 1/72 kit of these aircraft but should I really buy such a low quality product? Yes, it's a kit in plastic and may be simpler than a vacform or resin kit but really, should I reward the manufacturer for issuing something like this? Personally this time I'd rather save my money, maybe at KP they will at some point realize that in 2022 there are modellers who expect better than that, even from a short-run kit

[KRK4m]

On 6/17/2022 at 2:45 PM, Homebee said:

Box art & schemes - expected in July 2022

 

- ref. KPM0232 - Cessna C-180/185 Skywagon

https://www.kovozavody.cz/produkt/cessna-c-180-185-skywagon/

 

 

In addition, my southern neighbours stubbornly promote their own version of history and geography. Do you remember Curtiss H.75 from the Etampes airport in Africa (France, don't you tremble at your feet?). Or the Albatros C.III from the non-existent Mokotowka airfield?

This time, colleagues from KP located the (non-existent) American Research Hospital in Warsaw, and Cessna N1649Z (since 1986 SP-FBD) was given to Poland as a gift to the American Institute of Paediatrics in Prokocim, which - as a district of Krakow - lies almost 300 km south of Warsaw.

I think such mistakes are becoming a tradition for KP and AZ .

Cheers

Michael

[Smudge]

1 hour ago, KRK4m said:

Cessna N1649Z (since 1986 SP-FBD) was given to Poland as a gift

 

@KRK4m Is there an issue with the lettering on the fuselage side?

 

The markings seem accurate in most respects. I think I might 'do' this one. It seems quite an interesting story, and nice markings, too.

 

http://samolotypolskie.pl/samoloty/653/126/Cessna-185-Skywagon2

 

Thanks.

[JFM148]

As long as KP/AZ keeps doing injected models (hate resin kits) of obscure subjects nobody else will ever do, they will be in business and I will be buying their models.  The same goes to other small companies like Mach 2 (curiously, not as criticized as KP/AZ). 

[Jack Torrance]

Good day from Spain,

For the last years, KP/AZ become one of my favourite model brand ( also Airfix), so i dont understand why people from this blog are so judmental.

Is possible that these kits have some issues, but for me not suppose any problem.  I have built some of their models out of the box and i enjoyed to much.

For me KP/AZ have a very interesting selecction of subjects and liveries with good prices.

As modellers, we should be happy to have the possibility of choose a kit from KP/AZ. They are doing a great effort to offer us a big selection of new releases every month.

As commented, for me the main problem with this company is to choose what of ther kits buy, because i like most of them.

You also should think that for an average modeller, this kits are more than good.

If commented issues are a big problem for you, just dont buy it, but please, think twice before posting so negative comments.

Many thanks for all.

[KRK4m]

8 hours ago, Smudge said:

 

@KRK4m Is there an issue with the lettering on the fuselage side?

 

The markings seem accurate in most respects. I think I might 'do' this one. It seems quite an interesting story, and nice markings, too.

 

 

Actually, I do not have this kit (I would prefer to buy a U-17 boxing), but the inscription on the door (on both sides) should read AMERICAN RESEARCH HOSPITAL IN POLAND (not in Warsaw). Hope no problem there as there are some photos available even on the internet.

Cheers

Michael

 

 

 

[Ed Russell]

2 hours ago, KRK4m said:

there are some photos available even on the internet

 

Unless there are better quality pictures than these around, one can see how they might have read the bottom line to be Warsaw, especially picture #7

On close inspection, the bottom line looks like two words in picture #5 but more like one word in #6 and #7. Given such doubts, one should look for more information. 

http://www.samolotypolskie.pl/uploads/Products/product_653/Cessna_185_Skywagon_05.jpg

http://www.samolotypolskie.pl/uploads/Products/product_653/Cessna_185_Skywagon_06.jpg

http://www.samolotypolskie.pl/uploads/Products/product_653/Cessna_185_Skywagon_07.jpg

[KRK4m]

And you did not manage to find these, Ed?

https://geekweek.interia.pl/historia/news-cessna-185-bandera-usa-w-srodku-zimnej-wojny,nId,4417455

https://pfmrc.eu/topic/65644-cessna-185-skywagon-bez-kompromisów-relacja-z-budowy/

Cheers

Michael

[Ed Russell]

17 hours ago, KRK4m said:

you did not manage to find these

No but the first one is quite conclusive. I would guess KP did not find that one either. If I do this one I can easily print up a replacement decal.^^^^

The second thread goes along fine until the last page - ouch! That must have hurt his feelings!

 

^^^^ Edit - From the post below it seems the lettering is correct so I don't need to fix it.

[TheyJammedKenny!]

Ah, poor Mr. Muzikant.  He's largely a one-person operation, I think.

[Dennis_C]

22 hours ago, JFM148 said:

As long as KP/AZ keeps doing injected models (hate resin kits) of obscure subjects nobody else will ever do, they will be in business and I will be buying their models.  The same goes to other small companies like Mach 2 (curiously, not as criticized as KP/AZ). 

Problem is that they started with better quality than Mach 2, but their recent hasty releases are at Mach 2 level. 

I personally assembled their Vultee Valiant (good plastic details, a PE fret, no distortion on canopy), Fairchild Argus (again decent fit, transparencies not so good), HueyCobra (excellent kit from higher quality molds). Now I'm finishing the Chipmunk - this one clearly had a lot of quality issues - sink marks, scratched surfaces + a very thick canopy + mistakes and bad colors on decals.

And looking on the photoes of sprues of SF.260, L-159, this Cessna - I see these are worse then Chipmunk.

It's okay if we just take the fact KP/AZ are down to Mach 2 quality. But sorry - I do not want to blow vacform canopies myself, borrow or buy another set of decals with right colours, etc. I would just buy something else where I would be able to assemble a good model more or less OOB.  

[Smudge]

Yes. it is a shame that after eight years of research and development, the final product appears to have been rushed out at short notice 

 

Still, like I stated, I've got four of 'em and if I can find (or even make!) some interesting decals/schemes I'll probably get a couple more. I'll get some floats, skis and tyres from Khee Kha (maybe even a 180 for comparison). For me, they are a reasonable option to get some General Aviation stuff to build.

 

Oh, and no worries on the 'American Research Hospital In Poland' inscription. The decals are correctly worded. In fact, all the decals for this aircraft look spot on, including the name on both sides of the cowling etc.

 

Cheers.

[Dennis_C]

1 hour ago, Smudge said:

Still, like I stated, I've got four of 'em and if I can find (or even make!) some interesting decals/schemes I'll probably get a couple more.

Just wondering - what's your impression of the molds quality? Same problem as on photoes above? Are transparencies that bad or distortion not huge?

[Dutchplanes]

I don't know where you'r talking about. It's good short run, better than Mach 2. The wheels in the picture are 10 - 15 times larger than the 1/72 ones, so the V-shape hole is very prominent. In real life I had to put my spectacles on to see it.
I see no other deformation, and if so, I am a modeller, I can fix it.

 

Edited August 22, 2022 by Dutchplanes

[CarLos]

23 hours ago, Jack Torrance said:

 

If commented issues are a big problem for you, just dont buy it, but please, think twice before posting so negative comments.

 

 

Jack, I've been a great supporter of AZ/Legato/KP - I have in my stash more than 70 of their kits, and some in multiples! They made a lot of very good kits, both short run and from metal molds, but it is a general consensus that their molding quality is nowadays worst than before - in some case much worst! So far, I remember to comment negatively on their Tiger Moth (fortunately Airfix came to our rescue!), the Miles Hawk Major and the Cessna 185. These three have in common the fact that they are subjects that have special appeal to me, so I tend to be more picky. And I've done what you suggested - not buying - because I was able to take a look at the plastic of some others (namely the Zlin Z-37 and the SF-260 light-years behind the quality of Eduard). 

 

Before I used to buy AZ/KP blindly, without first looking at reviews or even taking a look at photos of the plastic. I remember the deception I felt when I acquired the Piper Super Cub, after the excellent quality of the similar L-4 Cub. And no, the Super Cub is not a bad kit, but the comparison with the previous kit puts if way behind.

 

I think it's fair to point to others what is good and what is bad in a kit. Of course it's just my opinion, but I tend to provide support for my words. And it's up to the others to value or not them (I don't think of the "average modeller" when I comment, I think of the things important to me). As a member of Britmodeller I feel more solidarity with my fellow modellers, and many of them pointed out limitations of kits appealing to me. I like to know what I buy beforehand, even if for me some limitations are not important.

 

On 8/21/2022 at 6:33 PM, JFM148 said:

As long as KP/AZ keeps doing injected models (hate resin kits) of obscure subjects nobody else will ever do, they will be in business and I will be buying their models.  The same goes to other small companies like Mach 2 (curiously, not as criticized as KP/AZ). 

 

Are you kidding? Just look for the threads on Mach 2' VC-10!


 

[Patrik]

Though I fully support your point of view, @Giorgio N and @CarLos, it is in my opinion a futile struggle. Some time ago, AZ/KP adopted a clever business model, which personally I may not like, but which evidently works well. Otherwise they would not have been with us for that long. Unfortunately, it is us, modellers, who keep their business model viable, so in fact we should be complaining about ourselves.

As for your words @Jack Torrance, I think as it if fair to praise well-done job, it is fair to make negative comments about crappy one. Especially if caused by sloppy work and especially when substantiated by clear evidence.

Edited August 22, 2022 by Patrik

[JFM148]

1 hour ago, CarLos said:

Are you kidding? Just look for the threads on Mach 2' VC-10!


 

Here is a well known modeller with what I consider an objective review.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkHafJLUazU .  No, it is not something from the well known brands, but Magna Models kit is a little bit hard to find....Soooo,  if you want to build a 1/72 injected VC-10...😉    What I like from Mach 2 is the implicit honesty of the guy.  He shows you what you're going to buy.  No need for any complaints. He actually doesn't care.  Even his website doesn´t work properly...and he knows it.   It is like a small cult.

 

I don't understand why such critic reviews on KP/AZ when it is basically a small company almost craft size.   This is a niche market going back from Cold War times.  Even compare it to Special Hobby is not fair/accurate.   Just makes no sense to me at all... 

[Cammer625]

Some of their kits are good some aren’t. It’s good when people critique a kit so you can look at it and decide whether to lay the cash down or not. You can still make a choice, no one is making you buy or not buy. Some companies have higher quality than others. Unfortunately, these guys are a real mix and you just never know what you’re getting.  And they don’t show their sprues much anymore prior to sale and someone puts it up for all to see. So the comments and sprue shots in this thread are very helpful in your decision making process. 

[Ed Russell]

5 hours ago, Smudge said:

no worries on the 'American Research Hospital In Poland' inscription. The decals are correctly worded.

Excellent news.