Grandslam & Tallboy bombs - what colour in 1945?

[woody37]

Hi guys,

I've seen pictures of the bombs in different colours, black and grey, green and grey too. Whatcolour would they of been in 1945?

As I've got a Tallboy conversion in the plan at some point, might as well roll them into one thread.

Thanks

[Selwyn]

Hi guys,

I've seen pictures of the bombs in different colours, black and grey, green and grey too. Whatcolour would they of been in 1945?

As I've got a Tallboy conversion in the plan at some point, might as well roll them into one thread.

Thanks

Bronze green for operational Live bombs, with red band around nose and eau de nil band around the centre of the bomb body. Standard colour scheme for all british HE bombs at that time.

Please note this is not Deep Bronze Green as used on modern British 1000lb. This colour came into use from 1964 onwards.

Selwyn

Edited January 19, 2014 by Selwyn

[bootneck]

Thread deleted as not relevant to the query. Apologies.

Mike

[Alex Gordon]

Edit:-For the sake of clarity the deleted post above showed a colour piccie of a replica atomic bomb as delivered to the residents of Nagasaki.Hopefully this addition will maintain the continuity of this thread.

Mike-confusion with enthusiasm is one of my odd things from time to time too.

That's Fat Man isn't it?

Tallboy and Grandslam look very different to that.

Big beastie innit?Photo from Wikipedia.

Edited January 20, 2014 by Alex Gordon

[bootneck]

Yep, apologies as I did not interpret the question correctly. I inadvertently mistook Tallboy for Little Boy etc.

cheers

Mike

[woody37]

So would the bomb colour still be bronze green?

Cheers

[John @ WEM]

Bronze green for operational Live bombs, with red band around nose and eau de nil band around the centre of the bomb body. Standard colour scheme for all british HE bombs at that time.

Please note this is not Deep Bronze Green as used on modern British 1000lb. This colour came into use from 1964 onwards.

Selwyn

There were at least 3 Bronze Greens in use during WW2--deep, medium, & light. Any idea which one we're talking about here?

[Selwyn]

There were at least 3 Bronze Greens in use during WW2--deep, medium, & light. Any idea which one we're talking about here?

John

Medium bronze green My error!

Selwyn

Edited January 20, 2014 by Selwyn

[justplanecrazy]

any humbrol number that comes close?

Nick

[chaddy]

The description I have is thus:

"Dark green body with pale green (anodised) tail; narrow red band and wider pale green band stencilled "TORPEX D.1" around nose".

[woody37]

Cheers guys,

Chaddy, that's interesting, most I've seen in scale have a light grey, but your description matches the profile in the warpaint Lancaster book.

[chaddy]

Cheers guys,

Chaddy, that's interesting, most I've seen in scale have a light grey, but your description matches the profile in the warpaint Lancaster book.

The description is from the Haynes workshop manual.

The colours given are bit generic though e.g. "dark green". I'd bow to Selwyn's medium bronze green on that, I think. Also on some photographs there seems to be a different colour band between the casing and the tail. However, this is the fairing that covers the casing/tail joint and I haven't read anywhere that it was painted differently than the tail.

It seems, according to above source, that the red band was narrow and quite close to the nose and the wider pale green (Selwyn's eau de nil?) was behind it. The Grand Slam example pictured in Hendon shows the red band but not the "pale green " stencilled band. The one in Brooklands has the red band in the location of the "pale green" band. If that makes sense?

There exists a close up pic of E W Weaver posing with a Grand Slam and both these bands can clearly be seen. Unfortunately the pic is not in colour.

[Steven Eisenman]

Green and aluminium/aluminum

[Selwyn]

The description is from the Haynes workshop manual.

The colours given are bit generic though e.g. "dark green". I'd bow to Selwyn's medium bronze green on that, I think. Also on some photographs there seems to be a different colour band between the casing and the tail. However, this is the fairing that covers the casing/tail joint and I haven't read anywhere that it was painted differently than the tail.

It seems, according to above source, that the red band was narrow and quite close to the nose and the wider pale green (Selwyn's eau de nil?) was behind it. The Grand Slam example pictured in Hendon shows the red band but not the "pale green " stencilled band. The one in Brooklands has the red band in the location of the "pale green" band. If that makes sense?

There exists a close up pic of E W Weaver posing with a Grand Slam and both these bands can clearly be seen. Unfortunately the pic is not in colour.

The colour scheme was not exclusive to the Tallboy /Grand slam.

The bombs were marked in accordance with current UK explosive regulations. The red band Indicated a live filling, the Eau de Nil band indicated HE fill and the type of explosive used was stencilled on the band in this case Torpex.

Regulations stated that the Eau de Nil band (the colour was specified) was to be placed at the widest point on the bomb body. Saying that wartime images show that this band tended to "wander" from around the middile to on to the Ogive! when it came to bombs like the 4000lb cookie with parallel sides that was usually taken as to be on or about the half way point.

The tail unit was a seperate item and quite often looked different in photo's although normally the same colour this was due to the storage conditions of the items, the bomb and tail were of course stored seperately. Components stored outside would weather quite badly, If stored under cover they could be quite pristine.

Selwyn

Edited January 20, 2014 by Selwyn

[chaddy]

I've never seen any pics of Tallboy or Grand Slam bombs where the tail fin is the same colour as the bomb. The Tallboy had a No 78 type tail and the Grand Slam a No 82 type. These were made of light alloy (Steve has posted in the above drawing it was aluminium).

Despite what regulations may have said re the EdN band being placed at the widest point (largest diameter presumably), photographic evidence shows this was not the case for Tallboy or Grand Slam bombs. The band was very close to the nose as per Steve's drawing.

[3DStewart]

The description I have is thus:

"Dark green body with pale green (anodised) tail; narrow red band and wider pale green band stencilled "TORPEX D.1" around nose".

Anodising is a relatively expensive surface treatment used where a very durable and attractive finish is required on aluminium. While it's not impossible this was used, I think it's unlikely as both these qualities don't seem relevant to the intended purpose! Paint seems more likely. In the photo above the metal under the circular access hatch is visible, which I would expect with painting.

Stewart

[chaddy]

Anodising is a relatively expensive surface treatment used where a very durable and attractive finish is required on aluminium. While it's not impossible this was used, I think it's unlikely as both these qualities don't seem relevant to the intended purpose! Paint seems more likely. In the photo above the metal under the circular access hatch is visible, which I would expect with painting.

Stewart

The main purpose of anodising is prevent corrosion of aluminium alloys, not necessarily to provide attractive finishes. Since anodising aluminium alloys also increases paint adhesion for primers it would be logical that the tail might be anodised and then painted "pale green". I did not say that the tail was anodised to be pale green, although I agree that the statement I quoted from the manual can be read that way. Indeed it may be that is actually what is meant. To determine the actual finish we would need access to the contemporary specifications.

Edited January 21, 2014 by chaddy

[Work In Progress]

It would be crazy anodising a huge tail manufactured in a massive hurry for use in a few days on a one-shot mission. Complete waste of valuable time and wartime resources.

Run-of-the-mill bombs were made in huge numbers and left lying around in dumps for months or years. Tallboys and Grand Slams weren't.

Edited August 16, 2014 by Work In Progress

[chaddy]

It would be crazy anodising a huge tail manufactured in a massive hurry for use in a few days on a one-shot mission. Complete waste of valuable time and wartime resources.

Run-of-the-mill bombs were made in huge numbers and left lying around in dumps for months or years. Tallboys and Grand Slams weren't.

As I said without the original specifications or eyewitness accounts I doubt we can ever be certain of the exact finish.

However, I don't not follow your statement re "manufactured in a massive hurry".

Edited August 16, 2014 by chaddy

[Work In Progress]

The whole weapon was a crash programme done at tremendous speed once the decision to manufacture it had been put into effect. The first Grand Slam was only tested on 13 March 1945, and the last of the 46 to be used in anger was dropped just five weeks later, on 19 April.

The Tallboy programme was of slightly longer duration but still the lifespan of a gnat in terms of military ordnance: 8 June 1944 first use, 29 April 1945 last use, less than 11 months later.

This is in contrast to the normally expected storage life span of conventional iron bombs, outside the 'special weapons' category. They often hang around a long time, being manufactured for stock in much the same way as rifle ammunition or artillery shells, rather than for specific campaigns by special units.

Edited August 16, 2014 by Work In Progress

[chaddy]

100 Tallboy (Large), later renamed Grand Slam, bombs were ordered in July 1943. By the time production was stopped in the following September, nine casings had been produced. Production restarted in July 1944. Production was again halted, but development work continued on the original 9 casings produced in 1943, and completed by October 1944. Granted that due to delays a live bomb wasn't tested until 13 March 1945 and it was used immediately after that first successful test.

Since it took a month for molten Torpex to cool and set, and since all the Grand slams used in WWII were dropped in the period 13 March 1945 to 19 April 1945, then most, if not all, those bombs must have been available by the beginning of March 1945.

To me this describes a somewhat "mature" project, first ordered in 1943, with production stopped due to shortage of manufacturing capacity, but with development work continued on the available castings and completed by October 1944. A further, political, delay held up production, but once re-started the bombs were available by end of February 1945, subject to test. It has been recorded that the RAF were seemingly reluctant to test the live bomb. It was only after Frank Myerscough, a civilian with RAE Farnborough, offered to be the bomb aimer and take responsibility for releasing the bomb, that the RAF agreed.

This was not a crash programme done at tremendous speed, but a relatively long programme held up by other factors. The decision taken in July 1944 was not to manufacture it, but to re-commence manufacture. An example of a crash programme done at tremendous speed would be Upkeep.

Edited August 16, 2014 by chaddy

[magman2]

A few Photos .......

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