On-board Fire Extinguisher Colour?

[Navy Bird]

Hi Mates,

I'm continuing to work on my 1:72 Special Hobby Skua, and I've come across a fascinating part that they cleverly label in the instructions as "C17." I immediately searched on this term, as I would like to know what colour to paint it, and I keep coming up with pictures of this giant, bulbous grey aircraft without any propellers.

Now, this C17 part looks for all the world like a fire extinguisher (complete with hose and nozzle), and with those two fuel tanks between the pilot and the gunner, I think this would be a prudent addition. In Brett Green's build of Special Hobby's quarter scale Skua, he has painted this part a nice bright green (you can see it right next to the gunner's seat, scroll down to see the cockpit picture prior to closing up the fuselage):

http://www.hyperscale.com/2007/features/skuabg_1.htm

Is it a fire extinguisher? Is green the right colour? Or maybe it serves some other purpose...I suppose it could be an oxygen cylinder for the gunner, but the "nozzle" is moulded too long and narrow for it to be a face mask. Maybe it's a holding tank for the relief tube.

I also searched around for British WWII Fire Extinguishers, and found a few auction sites selling them. They all seem to be bronze in colour. I came across an aftermarket company that makes resin versions:

http://www.jjfpub.mb.ca/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=1342&category_id=2&vmcchk=1&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=6

These are shown in yellow, and I'm not even sure they are for an aircraft. Were fire extinguishers coded with different colours to indicate the types of fire they could be used on? Or is that a more modern idea?

As you can see, I know nothing about fire extinguishers, although I do have one in my studio. Any help, guidance, or pre-paid appointments with a psychiatrist would be appreciated!

Cheers,

Bill

PS. Oh, I forgot to state that Special Hobby says to paint this part "dark iron."

[Space Ranger]

I've always thought oxygen cylinders were green and fire extinguishers red, but this may be post-WW II US practice.

[LDSModeller]

Hi Bill

If its a fire extinguisher in a British aircraft, it may well be a Graviner extinguisher as in these

photos mounted on the forward bulkhead

Made of Brass, probably with with Meythel Bromide as the extinguishing agent.

Could be a tank for a relief tube for the gunner, which would make sense to have it there out of the

way. The gunner could swivel to use it

Hard to tell if it's an Oxygen Bottle, if its meant to represent one, Silver or Black are my pick for colours.

Hope that helps?

Regards

Alan

Edited January 9, 2014 by LDSModeller

[NAVY870]

Of that vintage it will be the coppery coloured item. Our Firefly still has one fitted in the rear pit and I've noted them in most

RN aircraft of the 1940's

[MilneBay]

I've always understood that the older ones were a brass colour - red being a post war thing.

[Navy Bird]

Thanks, guys. It amazes me how much collective knowledge of this stuff is on BM. I'm going to go with the idea that it is indeed a fire extinguisher, and I'll paint it in the brass/coppery colour.

I found these photos which show oxygen bottles from a Skua wreck. Note that there appears to be green paint on these. I'm glad I found this photo, too, as these are the same shape as the cylinder that is mounted to the pilot's rear bulkhead. I surmised earlier that this was an oxygen bottle, now I guess I know what colour to paint it!

http://tihlde.org/~ktsorens/flyvrak/osen.html

Cheers,

Bill

[Edgar]

Wartime pump-handle extinguishers were usually bronze/brass coloured, made by the "Pyrene" company, and filled with carbon tetrachloride, an ideal chemical for cleaning materials like uniforms, so the containers were often empty, when needed in a hurry. This led to the handle being wire-locked, with a lead seal, so that it was easy to see if it had been tampered with. Eventually it was (allegedly) found that the chemical had a nasty habit of turning toxic when combined with the user smoking a cigarette (phosgene was what we were told,) so the extinguishers fell into disuse. Post-war extinguishers were often army bronze green, very occasionally red.

Wartime oxygen cylinders were normally black, with white writing.

Edgar

P.S. Carbon tetrachloride was replaced, as a cleaner, by trichloroethane 1.1.1, which is what "Sprayaway" airbrush cleaner was made of, but that was banned when it was linked to the hole in the ozone layer.

Edited January 10, 2014 by Edgar

[Stonar]

Edgar, there was quite a hoo-ha in the early 30s, when these fire extinguishers were becoming numerous, not as to whether phosgene could be produced by the thermal decomposition of carbon tetrachloride but whether it was this rather than the other smoke and fumes of a fire that had actually caused the few reported fatalities.

I'm not sure smoking a fag was the likely cause of the phosgene generated, but rather the heat of the fire. I'm fairly sure it's not a brilliant idea to go fire fighting whilst smoking a fag anyway

Once again those years of studying chemistry have come in handy!

Cheers

Steve

[Edgar]

I think the solemn warning was aimed more at those who were forever helping themselves to the fluid, for cleaning purposes, leaving an empty (and useless) extinguisher, then lighting a fag while they did their cleaning; for a few years I worked in a company rebuilding Service lorries, and a fire extinguisher was a standard item in the cab, either fixed in a corner, or on the seat base. One of my tasks was to check the vehicles in, remove all of the tools and keep them in a store, while checking the extinguishers for content and refilling them, by hand, where necessary. As I didn't/don't smoke, the warning was not necessary, and, by the time I could afford an airbrush, Sprayaway was readily available.

Edgar

[Navy Bird]

Great stuff, as always Edgar!

May I assume then that that the Skua did indeed carry a fire extinguisher in the gunner's office? The moulded part looks much like the photo above in post #3, and from the comment in post #4 (extinguishers being carried in the rear of Fireflies and most RN aircraft in the 40s) I think this is a reasonable conclusion.

Cheers,

Bill

[BS_w]

WWII, US or french aircraft had fire extinguisher in natural brass or nickel plated.

In case of extingusisher for engine , the pipe had color coding according to the countries(red for french and german, stripes red/white for british,

not color for US, their a/c had not extinguisher in the engine compartment

the bottles had an another coding, in France, the red bottle contained hydrogen......

Edited January 11, 2014 by BS_w

[Iain Wyllie]

nt

Edited August 4, 2014 by Iain Wyllie

[Navy Bird]

Great information and nice photos! I found a picture of the kit's sprues that show the part(s) in question. I've highlighted them with my tentative identification. Did I guess correctly?

The fire extinguisher has what looks to be a more modern type of nozzle, maybe this should be removed? I'll be replacing the oxygen cylinder with a resin part that I have that's the same size and much more nicely cast.

I've also had a look at some reviews of the 1:48 scale Special Hobby kit of the Skua, and the "fire extinguisher" does not have the nozzle. In fact, it looks rather much like the photos posted by Iain and LDSModeller.

Cheers,

Bill