cuprar Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Hi all, as most of you know Gerard at Apron world Has been sold out for a while now and he no longer has time to make any more in the near future. Or so he tells me! I've been thinking who else can make some nice bits so I've been talking to Paul Gandy at PG MODELS. And this is what he has said Chris, My biggest group of customers are N gauge railway modellers, and after that, 1/144th scale aircraft modellers. I've had a stand at the IPMS Scale Modelworld for several years, previously with someone else and this last year with a stand of my own, which is why I made the AEC Mammoth Major Aircraft Refueler in time for the show in November which is mainly a model aircraft show. One of my late friends was Mick Bell who had been the MT Officer at RAF Waddington for a number of years. Mick was a keen military model maker and also an expert draughtsman. He did some plans of GSE which he scaled for me into 1/152nd scale. I've also taken a number of photos of some GSE at various open days in the 70s and 80s at RAF St. Athan. So, to answer your question, yes, I might well make some GSE, but it will be specifically equipment used by the RAF, and not for a while, and it will be in 1/152nd scale to be consistent with the other models in my range. I've started making a fuel trailer to go behind the AEC, then I want to make a Mexeflote powered raft for the Sgts Mess at 17 Port & Maritime Regiment, and then a Saracen personnel carrier for the railway modellers, as they want more stuff for the 1950s/early 1960s for the steam/diesel transition, which is a popular period for them. Once I've got that lot done, then I'll see about some GSE. P G Models is just me, so there's a limit on how much I can get done. So as long as you are prepared to wait a bit then yes, I can do some. I am limited by what I've got plans for, but if you have any equipment that you would particularly like to have then do let me know, and also it would help if you have or know of any plans and or dimensions and photos of what you want. Hope that's of use Paul Gandy P G Models So please does anybody have plans or do they have bits they would like to see be made available??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BA777 Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Yes, just about anything found on the ramp at an airport Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cuprar Posted January 4, 2014 Author Share Posted January 4, 2014 Yes, just about anything found on the ramp at an airport Hi Jas I need pics and names Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BA777 Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Ok, those containers that go in the cargo hold and those stairs as well and those truck mounted ones..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev1n Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 THis has been tried so many times before and civilian airport GSE just hasn't sold well enough for it to continue. After an initial burst of enthusiasm, people saying "oh yeah....gissit...etc" it just dies out. Why? Because GSE around an airliner with no open doors just doesn't look right. It may be a subconcious thing to many but after a while the idea of a closed aircraft with all the bits n bobs of ground ops around it puts people off. However.... (yes I know, I know, I keep bangin' on about it....well....somebody keeps asking the same question about GSE....) If....more modellers did what I do and opened the doors (and put some detail in the visible interiors), both pax and cargo and modelled an airliner as it is seen when on the ramp and then bought GSE in enough numbers to put around each model (and not just one set) then maybe somebody might come up with a consistently available range of civvie GSE.... Hang on....since I'm still the only 1 who routinely opens his airliners up and details them....if you lot started doing it I might lose my unique 1ness.... You carry on doing them the way you always have folks.... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leader3 Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Kevin is right in what he says. when an airliner is on stand and no activity around it then all doors are closed. the only thing that would be attached to an idle airliner would be a ground power unit. If you did make a model as Kevin does with the doors and holds open then you need some equipment around it. how do I know this! well I work at an airport on the ramp. keep banging on Kev im on your side. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leader3 Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 I was going to post some photos on here, but for some reason the way I use to do by posting a link don't work now. what am I doing wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev1n Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 the only thing that would be attached to an idle airliner would be a ground power unit. Unless its a biggie and the cable plugs into the nose gear leg, then even then a little hatch needs to be opened for the cable to plug into....come to think of it, I havent ever seen an airliner model done just like that - no extraneous gse, just a GPU plugged in... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leader3 Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 (edited) Now that's better this is an AKE it is a standard cargo and baggage container. here it is seen on an A380. slightly better picture same container same aircraft. Edited January 7, 2014 by leader3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leader3 Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Standard GPU connection. this is a Boeing 777-300 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev1n Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 great refs - although I would like to see where on the 777-300 it actually is in relation to the nose gear leg ...and with open cargo bay doors on a model, I could use a huge number of those containers (and the tug and trolleys to go with them ...not to mention a loader....and the rest....) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev1n Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Kevin is right in what he says. when an airliner is on stand and no activity around it then all doors are closed. the only thing that would be attached to an idle airliner would be a ground power unit. If you did make a model as Kevin does with the doors and holds open then you need some equipment around it. how do I know this! well I work at an airport on the ramp. keep banging on Kev im on your side. ty for coming out with me here What is also worth mentioning is that an idle airliner also has flaps and things drooping with the power off, even tho' a gpu might be plugged in..... so anybody who builds one without doing the droppy things can't get away with saying "it's parked for the night".... sorry guys n gals..... and btw Leader3....my name does not have an 'i' in it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timo Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Hi Chris Glad to hear that Paul might add civil 144 GSE to his products. Towbarless aircraft tugs might be a popular GSE item for airliners with doors closed. Pics below of a couple of examples seen recently. Cheers Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cuprar Posted January 7, 2014 Author Share Posted January 7, 2014 Hi all , thanks for the pics and they should come in handy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George D. Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 What is also worth mentioning is that an idle airliner also has flaps and things drooping with the power off, even tho' a gpu might be plugged in..... Evelators and inner and outer ailerons are indeed drooping, for certain aircraft types, on cold and dark a/c on the ground after a while. But Flaps never droop on power off with only exception being the inner LE slats of the 727. As I worked at Hellinikon airport as ramp supervisor for 8 years I have been near planes daily... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich2010 Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 I'm currently scratch building a Houchin GPU (which despite being designed/ measured/ built off Houchin's measurements still looks a bit too big for 144th). I've also got on the go an Airfix 737-200 with baggage doors open, front pax door open with a scratch built interior. I'll have some steps (or jetway - haven't decided yet) and some figures milling around. (I used to work at airports as a ramp eng - I used to love milling around waiting for a push back.) I've got many, many such scenarios spinning around my head for different kits that I've got. I want to do a US Navy Nightingale loading stretchers. I want to do a TNT 737 unloading containers using an FMC. The ultimate would be a Guppy unloading a new fuselage section. I recently got hold of a Flying Fish push back tug (for more money than I would tell the missus) - it was good, but they seem to be like hens' teeth. In my opinion, a fantastically done model just sat on a bit of blue paper doesn't look right. In real life I've never seen an airliner parked without chocks either! And always on Tarmac/ concrete. Ps - Kev, is there any chance you post a couple of pics of your completed interiors - 5000+ posts is a lot to search... Also, Preiser do some 144 scale ramp workers in a variety of poses. Can't seem to find those either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev1n Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 I'll have to go find some suitable pics (or take some up to date ones) but sure I can do that rich. Don't forget the 737-200 had integral stairs which slid out from a flap under the forward pax door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev1n Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Evelators and inner and outer ailerons are indeed drooping, for certain aircraft types, on cold and dark a/c on the ground after a while. But Flaps never droop on power off with only exception being the inner LE slats of the 727. As I worked at Hellinikon airport as ramp supervisor for 8 years I have been near planes daily... As you say...what droops depends on the aircraft type - airbus widebodies are noted for it and the l/e slats on the 707 and 747 were often seen partially out when parked. Also on many aircraft the rudder could be deflected and the tail wing flaps on the DC9/MD80 series were not linked so one could be up, the other level. As ever, go look at photos and as many as possible when building Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev1n Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 here's a trio to be going on with... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George D. Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 As you say...what droops depends on the aircraft type - airbus widebodies are noted for it and the l/e slats on the 707 and 747 were often seen partially out when parked. Also on many aircraft the rudder could be deflected and the tail wing flaps on the DC9/MD80 series were not linked so one could be up, the other level. As ever, go look at photos and as many as possible when building From what I know and have personally observed (photographs with different examples may well exist) I agree for the 707. Haven't seen any such case on a 747. Apart from the surfaces that can be moved from the wind, here are some cases I remember well. All airbus series have their inboard and outboard ailerons dropped. B737 series... Well... 85% of the planes I handled were 737s (classics to be honest -300/400) and many night stopped in Athens, I've never, ever seen any of them with any of the control surfaces out of position during a night stop... B767 series. Both inboard and outboard ailerons and elevators droop after about 30mins of hydraulics cut-off. B757... Solid as a rock, like the 737 mentioned above. B727... Classic inboard LE slats droop. Sometimes during normal turn around too! We had to be very careful walking under or near the LE of the wings. Tristar, Inboard and outboard ailerons. MD8x, As you said, especially the elevators would take any position you can imagine... Usually full up with the 3 trim tabs alternating down-up-down or v.v. Rudder was also sensitive to winds. It is in my plans to build an airline during ground handling... But for now I lack experience, resources and space to start such a project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leader3 Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 (edited) Sorry kev1n hope i got this right. airliners will only have the flaps deployed on the ramp if there was a check needed. it does happen but not that often. as for Leading edge flaps these bleed out when pressure drops same with ailerons. a 777-300 with doors open just for you kev i do not have a larger picture of the location of the GPU connection but i will post one later. and again a A380 with the doors open and a bonus of a Houchin power unit close by. i will add some more soon Edited January 8, 2014 by leader3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich2010 Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Don't forget the 737-200 had integral stairs which slid out from a flap under the forward pax door. Yes they did didn't they. If my memory serves me correctly all classics did (not worked on NGs). I vaguely remember Jessica mentioning that -100s had a rear set too, that had a multi-folding action with the door hingeing from the bottom. Challenge accepted... Also, to enter the droopy flaps debate, I can't ever seem to recall a crew leaving a plane with its wings dirty. I think it's in the post-landing routine to makes flaps 0 - although it has been a while since a handed my ID back. It tended to be an engineer doing it if the crew reported a fault. From what I remember, at full flaps on the majority of a/c they would get in the way of baggage activities and the like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev1n Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 747s do have, on occasion, deflected rudders when parked Dont confuse the flaps themselves with the little aerliron things, usually found mid-trailing edge of the wings, usually behind the inboard engines on 4-engined types - these often dangle a bit, and the flaps on tail wings are also noted for drooping when parked. Yes they did didn't they. If my memory serves me correctly all classics did (not worked on NGs). I vaguely remember Jessica mentioning that -100s had a rear set too, that had a multi-folding action with the door hingeing from the bottom. Yes the 737-100 did have a slightly larger rear left pax entry door with integral stairs attached to the inside of the door, which opened downwards...if I can find the pic, I built a model of one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich2010 Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Most will allow their rudders deflect depending on wind direction. Beam-on wind will deflect the rudder accordingly. Headwind won't deflect it at all. 146/ RJs tail planes at rest were always deflected downwards. Something in the back of my mind is telling me that on shutdown the procedure is to disable control surfaces - you can't have a clumsy F/O nudge the control column whilst reaching for his Red Bull and potentially knock someone over outside. It's obvious but the smaller the plane the closer the wings to the ground! Before attaching a tow bar, the steering is bypassed with either an integral switch or a pin/ ribbon for the same reason. Safety always wins! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobgpw Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Just to add the view from the Tower, after landing most aircraft will raise flaps during taxi in from the runway. It tends to stop stuff being thrown up at them by the undercarriage or engines. During snow and ice conditions we might see after landing flaps at an intermediate setting due to accumulation of slush and ice. Best let the guys with the de-icing fluid treat them before retracting them. Any GSE models will also need to be covered in dents, scratches and touch up paint jobs, unless being modelled in "factory delivered" spec! Don't forget the honey wagon either, mmmm... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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