Andrew Jones Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Is this a bit like Spartacus? jonners No ! , I'm Gaston Marty. Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shane Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Alas, Trumpeter have only themselves to blame for the reaction to their new models. If their track record wasn't so appallingly "hit & miss", Im sure people would be more likely to hold off and wait before critiquing new releases. The fact is they dont give a "non-sunni" anyway, as Im sure it will sell well to those who dont know and/or dont care ( which is the majority of modellers). And yes, that is Trumpy-bashing, because they damn well deserve it. Jonners Probably terrified of internet heroes too. Shane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidelvy Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 No ! , I'm Gaston Marty. Andrew I'm Gaston Marty and so is my wife! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyL Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 He's not Gaston Marty...he's a very naughty boy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Kunac-Tabinor Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Probably terrified of internet heroes too. Shane I doubt it, as I said they don't care. And thats the shame. Still better to say what you think though. You never know someone might take notice. Jonners Gaston Marty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeVi Tophatter Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Alas, Trumpeter have only themselves to blame for the reaction to their new models. If their track record wasn't so appallingly "hit & miss"... And yes, that is Trumpy-bashing, because they damn well deserve it. Absolutely agree with this (shortened) post. As a 'born again modeller' with limited hobby time, I use this informative website to give more insight into a prospective purchase. I see that a lot of manufacturers make good kits, the issue is whether they make into a good scale model. The 1/72 Hobbyboss A-7 Corsair II family was of particular interest to me. A good kit but not a very good scale model, the infamous intake 'mistake' with the vast amount of accessible airframes and reference material abound cannot be explained away... Yes, 95% of the modelling community won't have an issue, as this will be a brand new, mainstream, affordable kit. 5% will have an issue due to various technical/detail aspects and will usually back up their opinions with much insight and imagery. These opinions are of great interest as they draw folks like me into the subject matter, while 'be thankful' and obvious 'What kit is perfect' posts don't. It's all in the details as some folks may say. Trumpeter/Hobby Boss may appear complacent at times as some of what they release has little to no competition or is just a better package for the aforementioned 95%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col. Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Well this may seem the unpopular opinion but I'm not buying a modern tooling that is full of mistakes just because the bits fit together well. Minor errors are one thing, the Tamiya Spitfire I has a couple issues that were fairly simple to correct in my opinion, in some cases unavoidable during the Cold War when there was nothing other than grainy photos taken during intercepts. Times have changed. We now know what shape and size a Tu-22 or Su-27 is. We even know the detailed differences between each sub-type of MiG-21 and there's a sellection of Warsaw Pact built machines in Western museums. A number of aircraft thought extinct are being resurected - Do-17 or Dh Hornet anyone? There's rapid prototyping and CAD programing, slide moulding and mixed media kits, we now have access to more information via the internet than was ever possible before. So far as I can see from this thread Trumpeter have no excuse for making a pigs bottom of this. When anyone who knows their way around the subject can easily find a photo to illustrate mistakes in the kit then Trumpeter should have been able to find those photo as well. The engine pods are a key feature of the Whirlwind and any error in those is going to have a massive effect on the overall 'look' of the kit. The whole aircraft is an unusual set of shapes in an era when aircraft were undergoing a huge change from biplane to monoplane design and a whole new set of construction methods yet were all following a similar set of lines. The result was quite distinctive and deserves to be done right. There, that's my opinion, everyone else is welcome to their own. I didn't buy the Trumpeter Vampire for the same same reason I didn't buy the Airfix Sea Harrier. I did buy the Trumpeter Wyvern for the same reason I bought The Airfix Lightning. These are the same reasons I'll not be buying a Trumpeter Whirlwind based on what I've seen so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurent Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 All we need now is someone to start drawing red lines on photos and this thread will be about complete . Red lines on photos can be useful if they're done on CAD photos before any tooling is done. Red lines can be understood by the designer who speaks only Cantonese or Mandarin also. See the KH 1/32 OV-10D topic on ARC... many of the raised issues have been fixed or improved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike romeo Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Very disappointed. Canopy! Cowlings!! Prop blades!!! Looks nothing like a Beaufighter . . . regards, Martin 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Batt Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 The model at Nuremburg is a test shot/pre-production item, isn't it? So it is possible (isn't it?) that the designers might possibly be viewing these and other comments and making remarks along the lines of "nice one, hadn't picked up on that" or in other cases making some Cantonese comment relating to self-abuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Going by previous errors I don't think Trumpy are that way inclined, unlike Meng who take note and try to correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Eisenman Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Always look on the bright side of life, ladies and gentlemen. The kit will be reasonably priced. Roy Sutherland will have new, props, spinners, wheels and clear resin canopy. He may even have proper bomb shackles. So now the total cost for a "proper" Whirlwind will be as much as the CA kit (orginally? on ebay?) cost, and that everyone bitched and moaned they could not afford. So see, it all works out. Those who want a inexpensive kit that "looks like" a Whirlwind will have it, and those who want a bit more can have that too, at a price. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnarO Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Now I'm confused. Can you show me on a photo what a flap cam track looks like on the Whirlwind wing - and point out where I can see it on the CA models posted here. Getting a bit over my head, this. Shane This is how the flap cam tracks look like. And it's quite obvious no wing fillet on top of the wing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnarO Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Mr Sutherland was the Cooper Details Whirlwind. That was his kit. This Trumpeter kit wioll be a filed day for aftermarket. At its most basic level "it looks like a Whirlwind". I know, that's what I said. Or meant to say at least. Mr. Sutherland's CD kit was much more accurate than the preproduction Trumpeter one. Hope they take notice of constructive comments and update the production kit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgeusa Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Ya know, I will be getting this kit for a couple of reasons. One, I really like the aircraft, have the CA kit in stash. Two, I like to encourage manufacturers through purchases to make the odd planes rather than another decal variant of the Spitfire IX. (Of course, this doesn't really explain why I have at least 4 Eduard kits in the stash does it?) The Trumpeter kit will have its flaws like every other kit I have ever bought. How terrible they are remains to be seen. However, in my life, I am not sure how many Whirlwind experts will come into my office, see the kit on display, and then proceed to tell me exactly how it is incorrect. I bought the Spiteful and the ME 509 for the same reason. It is safe for manufacturers to build the popular planes. And, do any of those kits not have design flaws? It takes a bit of far reaching to produce a kit of a relatively unknown aircraft. I look at it this way, without this kit, there is only the CA kit around and that is not exactly perfect either. I would imagine whatever flaws it will have could be correctable. And, there will be two kits out there and if it sells well, some other manufacturer will produce another kit hopefully correcting the flaws of the previous manufacturer. Off my box now. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnarO Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 this plane seems to invoke more debate than the spitfire. please guys westlands don't have drawings there aren't any in existence all we can work to is photos looking at what I have seen its a whirlwind or very close. Well, it is a beautiful plane IMHO. There are around 40 or so GA drawings and some details available, as well as parts lists and repair manuals. Not all was lost during the flooding of the Westlands archive in 47'. These are now being used for reverse engineering a CAD model and production drawings for creating a full size replica. Any model kit company is welcome to make contact for a cooperation to make an accurate model kit. It is an ongoing project driven by volunteers, with support of AgustaWestland and others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
593jones Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Maybe we can hope for an Airfix 1/48 Whirlwind in 2015 that will knock the CA and Trumpy kits into a cocked hat. In the meantime I will be buying at least one Trumpy Whirlwind. I do belong to the 'Well it looks like a (insert type here) to me.' class of modeller. Also I do like Trumpy kits, so I'm a little prejudiced. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad-M Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 (edited) Seems to me that the CA kit didn't get the front portion of the canopy correct either. It's nice to have choices though isn't it? I can either buy the Trumpy kit and build it, buy it and fix the perceived errors, or not buy it at all. But that's just my opinion. Brad Edited February 1, 2014 by Brad-M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Jones Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 This is how the flap cam tracks look like. And it's quite obvious no wing fillet on top of the wing. That's a excellent photo that shows the complex yet subtle blend of shape from the almost slab-sided area beneath the canopy to the rounded fuselage behind the wing trailing edge, note the very small trailing edge fillet where the shapes translate. I'll probably buy at least one of these to convert to a Merlin engined Whiff , so accuracy for that needn't be 100% , { or even a Griffon engined version ? } Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Bradley Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Welcome to Britmodeller, Gunnar. I read with great interest the article in February's Aeroplane magazine about the Whirlwind Fighter Project, and I was very impressed with the work you are doing as part of that. I hope it comes to fruition. I'd suggest to anyone who might doubt Gunnar's credentials would do well to acquire a copy of Aeroplane to read up on the project, and check out their website at www.whirlwindfighterproject.com - I'd suggest these chaps have more stuff on the Whirlwind than anyone on the planet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnarO Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Welcome to Britmodeller, Gunnar. I read with great interest the article in February's Aeroplane magazine about the Whirlwind Fighter Project, and I was very impressed with the work you are doing as part of that. I hope it comes to fruition. Thanks, Paul! And thank you for your kind words. It is an exciting project and progress is looking good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleeperService Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 That's a excellent photo that shows the complex yet subtle blend of shape from the almost slab-sided area beneath the canopy to the rounded fuselage behind the wing trailing edge, note the very small trailing edge fillet where the shapes translate. I'll probably buy at least one of these to convert to a Merlin engined Whiff , so accuracy for that needn't be 100% , { or even a Griffon engined version ? } Andrew That's a rather interesting What-If Andrew. If you do it you must share. I think that many of the Trumpeter kits seem to be 'Curates Eggs' maybe a blessing in disguise.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beermat Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 (edited) this plane seems to invoke more debate than the spitfire. please guys westlands don't have drawings there aren't any in existence all we can work to is photos looking at what I have seen its a whirlwind or very close. As Gunnar says, there are some Westland drawings. Yes, this model is similar if you compare it with some photos but there is a lot more to work with than that - and one would have thought a model company would do more than they appear to have done to use these primary sources (not just from AgustaWestland).. Until a couple of years ago these resources hadn't been gathered in one place or turned into anything useable. It just took a lot of effort, and a talented chap like Gunnar, to make that the case. We at the project are open to offers from model manufacturers. Edited February 2, 2014 by Beermat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazdot Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 I appreciate what you are saying beermat and I apologise for offence caused. I am just astounded by the level of ambivalence towards this kit . I'll keep my own counsel and decide when it's released wether to spend .my hard earned on it . but unless you alreadyvhave one in the stash or want to pay ebay prices this may be the only game in town. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beermat Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 (edited) Yes, I do see your point! No offence caused. I know I am new to this forum and I shouldn't just go wading in there being negative. Incidentally, in terms of shape the Airfix 1/72 is still good. There is an article in a 1974 Airfix magazine that hows how Westland GA's were used, and even re-prints a couple. What they didn't have was profile data for the complex areas - one of our team unearthed an unconventional but reliable source in a 1938 Westland drawing intended for their own model shop, giving profile data for a 1/24 scale model for use in a wind tunnel. Propeller blades - I spent time in Farnborough and elsewhere piecing together the shape of a dH dp54409, a blade not used on anything else. Gunnar now has them modelled. I suppose I over-reacted to Trumpeter just then guessing at them and expecting us to part with cash for that. Its like watching the news, or anything.. as soon as it's a subject one knows, one sees how much is being made up. Still, yes, it is the only game in town. By the way, the aftermarket wheels by Baraccuda are good - (we did forward some some Dunlop data). Room now for a lot more aftermarket stuff perhaps? Edited February 2, 2014 by Beermat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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