Steven Eisenman Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 (edited) As long as discussion has begin based on limited pictures and there are both "it looks like a Whirlwind" and "there are problems", just sayinmg the nacelles look screwd. Not bowed/egg shaped enough on the sides. And the canopy looks totally messed. Keeps going up to where it meets the wind screen, as has been pointed out. Spinner look quite odd, make that crappy. Bit too pointy and the cut-out for the blade is just wrong! Oh well, built the Copper Details, and got a CA in the stash. Found these in my files.. seems based on Westland documents Edited January 31, 2014 by Steven Eisenman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beermat2 Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 (edited) It might just be a trick of the light, of course - but the fillet appears to run the length of the upper wing/fuselage junction. This is wrong - the Whirlwind in fact broke the aerodynamic rules of the time by having a slight acute angle at some points along this junction, with no continuous fillet. What is visible from underneath is a flaring of the fuselage profile towards the trailing edge, which can be described as a fillet. You can see it in section '6', top-left in Steven's GA image. However, the plan view in these drawings is utterly wrong in showing a fillet extending laterally beyond the fuselage width. These were re-drawn from Westland sources, perhaps - but the Westland (and RAE) drawings we have do not show anything like this. The profile here is a complex shape, tending towards 'slab sided' ahead of this point. Trust me, this was the cause of much headscratching and midnight oil burning a while back, and we are confident in what we now have. The profile of this model does look wrong here, though to be fair the flaring/fillet aft of the trailing edge doesn't look as wrong as that plan view. I would upload a picture, but the uploader crashes my laptop. My laptop's fault, I'm sure. Edited January 31, 2014 by Beermat2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Eisenman Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Here are underside pictures, rare as they are. These are the 4+ drawings, for comparison. Been said Westland drawings don't exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beermat2 Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 (edited) Yep, flared fuselage aft of the trailing edge. From underneath its essentially a fillet. The 4+ drawings, showing this extending beyond the fuselage width, just perpetuate an inaccuracy. I wish I could upload - instead, please look at http://naca.central.cranfield.ac.uk/reports/arc/rm/2603.pdf - and check the drawings. That fillet aft of the wing is a local straightening of the fuselage curve, and doesn't extend further laterally than the maximum width of the fuselage. This is supported by Westland ones that we have access to (SOME do exist). For what its worth, Westland drawing CS.252 shows it. Also the AP - AP1709A Vol.1 Sec.7 Chap.1 Fig.1. Also the 2 Westland wind tunnel models we have. But this isn't the issue Gunnar spotted. The apparent inaccuracy (one of them) in the model is the continuous chordwise 'fairing' of the wing/fuselage junction, on the top surface - if that's what it is. EDIT - the more I look at this, the worse it gets. Where are the characteristic flap cam tracks on the trailing edge? The spinner cut-outs have no shape to them, and the spinners themselves are apparently based on Spit DH ones. A bit of Googling would have found our own research into this. And those blades.. ouch. Edited January 31, 2014 by Beermat2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Batt Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Is it just my eyes, or is the rear of the nacelle slightly off? The kit seems to be a continuous curve, while the real thing seems to have a sharper radius at the bottom and then a brief section where it is actually straight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazdot Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 so are we now saying this is a lemon? I must admit as a layman I would buy this because to me it looks like a whirlwind but you guys are very quickly putting me off 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Vor!!! Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 The kit isn't even out yet but already its ruined in the eyes of some . Last time it was Airfixs Hurricane that got ripped apart Why not wait till its out and being reviewed and then make your mind up. Amazing how many EXPERT model designers we have on Britmodeller 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 There are faults with every kit, but to me it looks like a Whirlwind and 99% of the people who see my completed kits in the display case won't even know what it is anyway, so I'll probably be getting one 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Vor!!! Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 I will buy one and I hope a lot of other people do . Id like to know what kit is perfect 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Jones Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Interesting that one opinion is that the nacelles are too barrel shaped , whilst another says they are too slab sided , surely they can't both be right . I think i'll reserve any further judgement until the kit's in my hand. PS. the canopy will need replacing as it doesn't look to arch enough above the pilots head. Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beermat Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 (edited) It's not about being an expert kit designer. But some people know what a Whirlwind looks like, and surely they can comment? Whirlwind prop blade - ..and spinner. Go compare. Not saying 'don't buy it', just be aware that the accuracy isn't what it could be - based upon these pictures, at least. Edited January 31, 2014 by Beermat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Eisenman Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 (edited) Before we go off into "can't comment..because...." This Forum's Purpose: The Rumourmonger In memory of Matt Roberts - aka The Rumourmonger.What kits have you heard about from the manufacturers, your mum's cousin vinny, or in a dream you had the other night? Post your thoughts, requests for confirmation, or just baseless speculation here... just don't argue about it! Edited January 31, 2014 by Steven Eisenman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Eisenman Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 (edited) Larger and brighter images. And a very interesting comparison. This is worth a look. http://barracudacals.com/gallery/index.php/Classic-Airframes-1-48-Whirlwind---by-Calum-Gibson---New-South-Wales-Australia Edited January 31, 2014 by Steven Eisenman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnarO Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Didn't mean to start an argue, was just disapointed with what I saw in the pictures. The CA kit is quite good, and now a chance at getting a new nice Whirlwind in 1/48. Sad to see all the errors on the preproduction model, and I do know quite well what a Whirlwind should look like. Had it only been of the same quality as the box art. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radleigh Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 so are we now saying this is a lemon? I must admit as a layman I would buy this because to me it looks like a whirlwind but you guys are very quickly putting me off The kit isn't even out yet but already its ruined in the eyes of some . Last time it was Airfixs Hurricane that got ripped apart Why not wait till its out and being reviewed and then make your mind up. Amazing how many EXPERT model designers we have on Britmodeller There are faults with every kit, but to me it looks like a Whirlwind and 99% of the people who see my completed kits in the display case won't even know what it is anyway, so I'll probably be getting one I will buy one and I hope a lot of other people do . Id like to know what kit is perfect You said it all for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shane Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 EDIT - the more I look at this, the worse it gets. Where are the characteristic flap cam tracks on the trailing edge? The spinner cut-outs have no shape to them, and the spinners themselves are apparently based on Spit DH ones. A bit of Googling would have found our own research into this. And those blades.. ouch. Now I'm confused. Can you show me on a photo what a flap cam track looks like on the Whirlwind wing - and point out where I can see it on the CA models posted here. Getting a bit over my head, this. Shane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert RN Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 The kit isn't even out yet but already its ruined in the eyes of some . Last time it was Airfixs Hurricane that got ripped apart Why not wait till its out and being reviewed and then make your mind up. Amazing how many EXPERT model designers we have on Britmodeller I;d wait to see what Roy Sutherland has to say on about the kit, he at least has some expereince as a kit designer. Most of the rest you can disregard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnarO Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 I;d wait to see what Roy Sutherland has to say on about the kit, he at least has some expereince as a kit designer. Most of the rest you can disregard. I don't think this is about kit design, it's more about accuracy to the original. A lot of manufacturers makes highly accurate models, this is just not one of them. I think Mr. Sutherland will agree, the old Cooper Details kit is by far more accurate than this. Although it needs a lot more work to finish it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Eisenman Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 (edited) I don't think this is about kit design, it's more about accuracy to the original. A lot of manufacturers makes highly accurate models, this is just not one of them. I think Mr. Sutherland will agree, the old Cooper Details kit is by far more accurate than this. Although it needs a lot more work to finish it. Mr Sutherland was the Cooper Details Whirlwind. That was his kit. This Trumpeter kit wioll be a filed day for aftermarket. At its most basic level "it looks like a Whirlwind". Edited February 1, 2014 by Steven Eisenman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Jones Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 All we need now is someone to start drawing red lines on photos and this thread will be about complete . Andrew 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazdot Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 the problem here is that I want to be able to build it easily (not shake and bake but not half a tube of filler either) and I want to be able to afford it. right now it looks like the only affordable in production version available and I will.be buying one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilneBay Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 All we need now is someone to start drawing red lines on photos and this thread will be about complete . Andrew We are all Gaston Martys now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Kunac-Tabinor Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 We are all Gaston Martys now Is this a bit like Spartacus? jonners Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazdot Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 this plane seems to invoke more debate than the spitfire. please guys westlands don't have drawings there aren't any in existence all we can work to is photos looking at what I have seen its a whirlwind or very close. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Kunac-Tabinor Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Alas, Trumpeter have only themselves to blame for the reaction to their new models. If their track record wasn't so appallingly "hit & miss", Im sure people would be more likely to hold off and wait before critiquing new releases. The fact is they dont give a "non-sunni" anyway, as Im sure it will sell well to those who dont know and/or dont care ( which is the majority of modellers). And yes, that is Trumpy-bashing, because they damn well deserve it. Jonners 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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