All The spitfire questions you want to ask here

[gingerbob]

But of course a 2x4 doesn't measure 2 inches by 4 inches, either!

bob

[Max Headroom]

Right then a really stupid Spitfire question.

Would the cockpit entry hatch of a mk.1 fit onto an F.47?

Trevor

[Edgar]

back on topic, when during the mk.V run did metal ailerons become factory fitted?I think it was sometime during the Vb run or was it dependent on who actually built the airframe?

It's ever-so-slightly more complicated than that (surprise!)

The first airframe to get metal ailerons was Farnborough's R6718, and they reported favourably in November 1940.

266 Squadron was selected for trials by a serving unit, and had a set fitted to P9505; they also were very much in favour, and said so 21-1-41.

For some (bureaucratic?) reason things slowed down, the ailerons not being introduced, on the Mks. I & II until 17-7-41, under mod 319.

The RAF issued a general leaflet, 22-8-41, allowing units to replace the ailerons, themselves, but they must return the early version to the "contractor," and not do any work on tthem themselves.

As we know, from apocryphal stories, once word got out, pilots were jumping the queue, and going directly to Supermarine to get new items fitted, so it's really impossible to be hard-and-fast about which Marks and serial nos benefitted first.

Edgar

[Edgar]

Would the cockpit entry hatch of a mk.1 fit onto an F.47?

Allegedly.

[Black Knight]

My turn; Mk1, V and IX

Do the seat belts come over the top of the seats from behind or through a hole in the back of the seat?

[Max Headroom]

My turn; Mk1, V and IX

Do the seat belts come over the top of the seats from behind or through a hole in the back of the seat?

According to this site 'over the top'

http://spitfiresite.com/2010/07/anatomy-of-spitfire-cockpit.html

Trevor

[stevehnz]

Back to the subject of imperial measure versus metrics, which I believ came up with D-day wing stripes, 18" in 1/72 is 1/4" which is 6.35mm which is pretty damn close to 6mm Tamiya tape & thats close enough for me.

Steve.

[SleeperService]

I have a Brigade Models Spitfire T9 conversion in 48th. It came without instructions so my 'stupid' question is What kit or mark of Spitfire do I need to get the rest of it please?

[elger]

I have a stupid question! What are the seatbelts attached to in pressurised versions?

[Max Headroom]

I have a Brigade Models Spitfire T9 conversion in 48th. It came without instructions so my 'stupid' question is What kit or mark of Spitfire do I need to get the rest of it please?

If the instructions don't suggest a donor kit then a Hasegawa/Revell mk.IX will do. Whatever else is wrong with the kit I believe the wings are ok. All trainers were modified IX's bar one. That was/is G-AIDN which is an VIII so the ailerons need shortening.

Trevor

[Denford]

If the instructions don't suggest a donor kit then a Hasegawa/Revell mk.IX will do. Whatever else is wrong with the kit I believe the wings are ok. All trainers were modified IX's bar one. That was/is G-AIDN which is an VIII so the ailerons need shortening.

Trevor

... and given a retractable tailwheel and Vokes filter. 'Spitfire - The Story of a famous Fighter' gives a second Mk Vlll, conversion G-AKBD.

[Sean_M]

I have a Brigade Models Spitfire T9 conversion in 48th. It came without instructions so my 'stupid' question is What kit or mark of Spitfire do I need to get the rest of it please?

I am working with the Eduard IX. In some ways I think there is too much detail in the kit. I say this as a modeller. You need to glue 3 pieces together just to get the exhaust stubs. I suspect all of this is so that they could release various versions from the early IXc to the late IXe. Plus allow you to "superdetail" your kit with lots of add ons from them (engine, radio compartment, wing armament, etc). I have not seen or heard anyone fault this kit on errors as to scale or shape. There in lies a 2 edge sword. If your conversion was based on a donor kit that is slightly out then you may have matching problems and vice versa if your conversion is accurate and the donor kit is out.

I personally would look at the Eduard and go for a Late model as it would have been a lot of the late MK IX's that have been converted (especially in post war restoration). "Grace" is one example. I suspect either way you are in for a challenge and a bit of filler and sanding. As an after though while writing this the ICM kit may also be an option. Its's cheap and has loads of detail to make most single seat MK IX variants. I think you can pick one up for around £8 either in Ebay or directly from Poland.

I look forward to seeing a "Work in Progress". I suspect lots of us have thought about a 2 seat, but never been brave enough to venture there. Good Luck!

[gingerbob]

If I can find the Brigade kit, which I think I can, I'll scan the instructions for you.

bob

Edited January 15, 2014 by gingerbob

[Edgar]

My turn; Mk1, V and IX

Do the seat belts come over the top of the seats from behind or through a hole in the back of the seat?

I suspect it's another "It depends" answer.

The Sutton harness was designed to go through the hole in seats' backrest, but that was using metal seats; one man, who works on rebuilding aircraft (including Spitfires,) is adamant that there would have been too much strain for the plastic seat to cope, and he points out that you rarely, if ever, see any wear around that hole, where the belts would surely have chafed.

The Hurricane manual's illustration shows a "kink" in the seatbelts, where they did go through the back; there's no such kink in any Spitfire drawing.

There's a photo of a late-war IX, in which the retaining wire goes through the hole, but it's impossible to say whether the seat is metal or plastic.

The Patrick Stephens book, on the Airfix Mk.I, shows the belts coming over the back.

On a drawing of a late Seafire seat, the hole is shown as being where the seatbelts pass through, but it's a metal seat, and late Seafire seats had blocks of wood, as bracing, between the back and the armour, which would have caused any belt to jam as the pilot turned to look behind.

On early seats the thigh straps were attached to the seat frame; on later (strengthened) seats they moved back to the corners of the seat itself, and became hip-straps, so maybe the shoulder straps were no longer essential for keeping the pilot down in the seat, so they could then come through the hole. Paperwork is not just delightfully vague, on this point; it's totally non-existant.

Edgar

[Edgar]

I have a stupid question! What are the seatbelts attached to in pressurised versions?

During the war, they went through a sealed hole in the pressure bulkhead, in the same way as the control cables went through; post-war (on the XIX,) they dived down behind the seat (after passing through a bracket on the headrest,) and were attached to the crossbar at the bottom of the seat bulkhead.

Edgar

[Sean_M]

T9 - Have a read http://modelingmadness.com/review/korean/gb/earst9.htm

and

http://www.modelingmadness.com/review/allies/gb/reyt9.htm

[gingerbob]

I was a bit optimistic about finding the Brigade kit- I'll have another look later... My goodness I need to finish "my" room so I can get organized!

bob

[Black Knight]

Sorry for tardiness; I lost this thread and just got back to it.

Thank you chaps for the answers about seat belts.

about metric/imperial;

the USA is not totally non-metric; or wasn't. My '78 Cadillac Coupe and '80 Oldsmobile Cutlass both had a mixture of UNF, UNC and metric bolts and nuts. Both were built in the US for the home market. And one couldn't be sure just where one would find which type of bolt/nut. eg the rear axle, diff and suspension had all three. The gear box also had 'bicycle' thread bolts in it. [1/4 20]

my favourite timber yard sells wood lengths by the 'metric foot', sheet by the square foot or full sheet by metric size. When I need something cut the saw man dials the millimetre size into the saw setting then reads it back to me in imperial! I just say 'aye, thats right'

[Seawinder]

Here's another question. With regard to the undercarriage down indicators, Edgar posted this to another current thread: "The 'undercarriage indicator rods' were deleted 11-8-44 (29-3-43 on the IX, according to the RAF's instructions.)"

So, what marks had the indicators? What about the XII? Were the rods reinstated near the end of the line?

Thanks,

Pip

[Edgar]

Unfortunately, you're into "prove me wrong" territory, with this one; removal of the rods was considered to be within the capability of the squadron personnel, and how-to leaflets were issued (February 1944 in the case of the XII.) That means, if you can't see them, they were probably already taken off.

Edgar

[Seawinder]

Unfortunately, you're into "prove me wrong" territory, with this one; removal of the rods was considered to be within the capability of the squadron personnel, and how-to leaflets were issued (February 1944 in the case of the XII.) That means, if you can't see them, they were probably already taken off.

Edgar

Thanks, Edgar. I'd infer from that that the "Wheels up when indicator flush" stencil might well have remained even though the rods were removed?

Pip

[Peter Roberts]

Ok, I'm a bit confused now. I have been reading about the restoration of Spitfire Mk I, P9374. The internal finish applied to this plane is silver with a green cockpit area. My understanding is that this was a finish applied sometime during Mk V/Mk IX production, and that earlier build Spitfires were green on all interior surfaces. Or was the all green preceded by silver and green on the first few builds? (not going to get into the shade of green! )

PR

[Peter Roberts]

Edgar, picking up on your comment re: seat belts. On the first Spitfire builds, those with metal seats, do you know if the thigh/lap belt anchor was to the seat corner or to the frame?

PR

[Edgar]

Thanks, Edgar. I'd infer from that that the "Wheels up when indicator flush" stencil might well have remained even though the rods were removed?

Unlikely, since the redundant hole was plated over, so why go to all that bother (which would need some paint retouching,) and leave the (also redundant) stencil untouched?

Peter Roberts Edgar, picking up on your comment re: seat belts. On the first Spitfire builds, those with metal seats, do you know if the thigh/lap belt anchor was to the seat corner or to the frame?

Judging by a photo of K9942's cockpit, in "Flypast" January 2001 (copies available, but not on here, due to copyright considerations,) the straps were attached to brackets welded(?) on the inside of the corners of the seat.

Ok, I'm a bit confused now. I have been reading about the restoration of Spitfire Mk I, P9374. The internal finish applied to this plane is silver with a green cockpit area. My understanding is that this was a finish applied sometime during Mk V/Mk IX production, and that earlier build Spitfires were green on all interior surfaces. Or was the all green preceded by silver and green on the first few builds? (not going to get into the shade of green!

Most internal areas, like the fuselage, doors/covers, wing interiors were silver, at first, with only the cockpit interior, engine bearers and firewall in grey-green. Late in the war (still don't know exactly when) all interiors went over to green, possibly due to a pressing need for aluminium in general construction, rather than paint manufacture. This can be seen with Hurricane and Typhoon wheel wells being silver, while the Tempest went over to green.

Edgar

[Peter Roberts]

Thank you Edgar, interesting that the seat belt attachments were on the inside of the seat.

Re: interior colors, interesting to see the differences over time. I wasn't aware of this with the early builds.

Appreciate your response, thank you.

PR