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Sean_M

All The spitfire questions you want to ask here

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Were all Spitfire Vs capable of carrying slipper tanks or was this capability restricted to Vbs and Vcs. Could somebody please tell me what was the capacity of the slipper tank provided in the "new" Airfix 1/48 Vb kit ? Could this tank be carried if an Aboukir filter was fitted ? Did the different sized combat tanks have standard shapes and fittings. I am currently limiting my interests to the Mk Vs.

Any information would be gratefully appreciated.

John

I don't mean to offend, did you try google John?

I put in 'Spitfire slipper tanks'

first hits

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234911912-spitfire-slipper-tanks/

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/41504-spitfire-mk-v-belly-tanks/

note

The fittings, for both tanks, were introduced from 25-9-42. According to the pilot's notes, the aircraft could only be flown straight and level, when fitted with the 90-gallon tanks; this did not apply to the 30-gallon tank. Both tanks had to be jettisoned in level flight. From this, it rather sounds as though pilots, if bounced, couldn't manouvre out of the way, if they had the large tank, but had to jettison it first, while they could break while carrying the 30-gallon tank, and jettison it at the first opportunity. From that, I'd doubt that the 90-gallon tank saw much combat use, in Europe, at least; in fact the V manual indicates that only the tropical fuel system was designed to use it.

Edgar

But the whole thread is fascinating.

The Va was made in very limited numbers, and I've never heard of tropical Va...

Others will know more, and maybe able to directly answer your questions, but some answers are in the above links.

also not directly related to your question, but probably of interest

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/57262-help-please-spitfire-drop-tanks/

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234955112-spitfire-slipper-tank-with-camera/

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234948710-fuel-slipper-tanks-on-spitfires/

http://www.rafcommands.com/forum/showthread.php?11494-Spitfire-with-drop-tank-s-was-it-ever-fully-utilised-in-cross-Channel-ops-in-43-44

A general point, the questions you ask are interesting, but in some ways distracting from what you are trying to do, which is build accurate models?

As I have suggested before, find a photo of the aircraft(s) you wish to model, and fine tune the details for the model from photographs.

This is not meant as criticism, more that it maybe easier from a research point of view, and too avoid perhaps getting bogged down in less relevant, to a model, details.

HTH

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The Va was made in very limited numbers, and I've never heard of tropical Va...

There was one- it was the trial installation for the tropicalization package. X4922. She may have been delivered as a Mk.I and then converted to Va, not sure without further cross-checking. There were even a handful of Mk.Is sent to Egypt (for training, not ops) and given Vokes filters, either before or (my guess) once there.

That question of wheel well versus leg well was in the back of my mind, but I didn't remember where the notion had come from.

John, once the fittings for the slipper tanks arrived, all subsequent Spits (and Seafires) had that capability. (There may be some exceptions, but as a general rule...) Each size was standard, though there may have been a slight mod at the front to clear the trop filter on one. They were unique to the Spitfire line, though. Later more typical drop tanks were sometimes used instead. While there was almost certainly (gulp) some retro-fitting on Vbs, perhaps in connection with the LF.V mods, in general earlier types were NOT subsequently modified to carry slipper tanks. There were also the Mk.II LRs, with the one fixed tank on the port wing, but the less said about them the better!

I agree with Troy- pick a particular subject then research IT to preserve modelling sanity, or else throw your lot in with the rest of us, dive in at the deep end, and accept that it will involve some intensive study- but be prepared for the consequences!

bob

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At the risk of a diversion: in Egypt they were removing the Vokes filters from Spitfires to fit Aboukir ones, so why should they fit them to Mk.Is? I suppose they would have plenty spare, and the performance penalty largely irrelevant. There were some Mk.Is in Egypt which were ordered by Turkey but diverted before delivery. I wasn't aware of any delivered specifically for training use but I guess that's a cue for ploughing through Spitfire The History again.

Edited by Graham Boak

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More than I expected- 28 or 29 (one recorded as lost at sea en route on Peter Maersk). Apparently for 73 OTU, around Jan '43.

Edit: most were struck off charge 27 July '44, probably the date of an officially "washing of hands". (A couple of others 1 Mar '44, perhaps cannibalized to keep others going?) Oh dear, I feel another research quest coming on...

bob

Edited by gingerbob

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I always thought that there only two ex Turkish Mk.1's that ended up in Egypt. Both were allocated impressment block serials (HB*** or HK***?) in exchange for some ex French Dewotine or MS types that the British took over after the fall of France.

Somewhere I have an Air International from the 70's that shows one of them and as far as I remember there was no tropical filter.

Trevor

Edit

See this link to the Airfix Tribute Forum about half way down.....

http://airfixtributeforum.myfastforum.org/viewtopic.php?f=410&t=34388&start=20

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Troy

Many thanks for your response. Actually I had already browsed the Britmodeller replies on the links that you provided. Nevertheless thanks. They were very informative but didn't quite provide what I was looking for. What I am trying to do is establish, as best as I can, a comprehensive list of the different and differing external features of RAF Spitfires. Initially I am restricting my activities to the combat Mk Vs - that's enough to start with. My intention is to model, where reasonably practicable, the different Mk V types and their versions. Once I know what to look for I can begin to search for suitable subjects.

Hope you can unravel what it is that I am trying to say.

John

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Spitfire Fabric Seatbelts

I have been searching for 1/48 spitfire fabric seatbelts and have, so far, found one source - HGW - who describe their product as "Sutton QK Harness (RAF Early)". Does anyone have experience of using these and just when did the later "?" type come into use.

I know that it could go without saying but - Thanks for any help.

John

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The Sutton M, K, QK harness lasted through the war, and just after; M & K differed in the length of the straps, while the QK's "thigh straps" moved rearward to become hip straps, but needed a strengthened seat, so was rare, and very late. The only non-Sutton wartime harness was the QL (used only on the XVI,) which had a fairly thin parachute-style box system, but remained a tan colour.

There should be no reason why you can't use a so-called "QK early (or late)" Sutton, on your model, if you keep the leg/hip/thigh straps coming over the middle of the side walls, and remember the right strap came through the slot in the seat's side wall..

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Atta' boy Edgar

Another one bites the dust.

Mega Thanks

John

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Initially, they were attached to the framework under the seat; when it was decided that pilots needed extra restraint by keeping their hips/bums firmly anchored in the seat (during negative G manoeuvres, pilots were being lifted up, and hitting their heads on the canopy,) the thigh-straps were moved back (Sutton QK,) and attached directly to the rear corners of the seat itself. This needed seats with a wall thickness of a certain dimension, so it's impossible to say whether a particular airframe would have had that particular combination, but not before 1944.

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Post 821 - 825 in this topic cover the undercarriage geometry for B and C wings. Troy posted a great pair of photos showing the difference (thanks Troy!)

Am I correct in assuming the E wing had the same geometry set up as the C wing? And if that is the case, the same "bulged" undercarriage doors?

PR

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Yes and no. The fundamental difference is early 'c' to... (sometime) used the splined oleo leg. Later the link type was used, which didn't change the angles of the leg, but did change the shape of the door and required a notch in the gear well "hole" where leg area meets wheel area. It isn't just a matter of adding the wedge to the door (cover)- the basic construction of the door was different. But there's no basic 'c' versus 'e' change. Remember that the 'e' armament was just a different armament installation to the basic wing, requiring a bare minimum of alteration.

(Note: there was also an intermediate leg, but we don't know enough about them yet to worry about it!)

bob

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So they (the shoulder straps) just go over the seatback/armour and then disappear? All those model kits had it right after all! :winkgrin:

bob

Edited by gingerbob

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So they (the shoulder straps) just go over the seatback/armour and then disappear? All those model kits had it right after all! :winkgrin:

bob

Well over the the seat back and over a roller and then down to a tensioner by wire for which the pilot has a hand control.High back and low back are different.

Edited by Mark12

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Thank you Bob and Peter, appreciate the information and photos.

Edgar, thinking about your information further, there was framework UNDER the seat? Please pardon my ignorance (now there's a phrase I could use a lot!) but I was only aware of attachments on the back of the seat. Are you referring to framework on the fuselage, under the seat?

PR

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No, on (the bottom edge of) the seat itself:-
30025SHT4GSuttonHarness_zps9e7da513.jpg

Edited by Edgar

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Gents. I have a specific interest in modelling 602 Sqn, being a son of the Clyde. Are there good, specific references online relating to 'Glasgow's own' and their aircraft?

Thanks,

Dave.

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I don't know of any websites, but Findlay's book is currently available for 65p + postage on Amazon and there's a dedicated museum on Sauciehall Street. (Spelling?) I suspect the museum will be able to put you in touch with decent sources.

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Is there any source of reference from which I can determine the wing types of individual spitfires (when manufactured) and whether the wings are full width, clipped or extended. It would also be useful to know what, if any, alterations were made to the original wings.

Any assistance and comments would be greatly appreciated.

John

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