chuckb1 Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 Stupid question time. Neville Dukes Spitfire ER220 with or with out wing strengthening. my research has ground to a halt. As we know Duke flew two Vb aircraft, I am building ER220 so with or with out is the question? Im doing fuselage and cockpit at the moment so not in too much of a rush on this question. Cheers Brendan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 ER220 was delivered to the M.U. 31-8-42, at least a month (16-7-42) after the stiffening mod went onto the production line. Given the grading of the mod (Class 2 = with immediate effect,) I'd say it was likely to have them (cue photo to show them missing.) Edgar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain Wyllie Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 (edited) When I painted the cover art for Osprey's Spitfire Mk V Aces, I was in touch with Neville Duke and one of my questions was about this. He sent me photos and one showed ER 336 with a German pilot, whom he had shot down in ER 220, standing in the cockpit. No strengthening appeared in the photo so I assumed that this also applied to ER 220.. Edited August 10, 2014 by Iain Wyllie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckb1 Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 Thank you chaps, Im getting there bit by bit with the build, this really is a quandry, Edgar says probably yes, as he says wait for the image showing them missing, just located an image and it looks like they are missing, however the aircraft is referred to as a Vc on the web page not a Vb Quandry, to remove or not remove, that is the question? Brendan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 Well, Iain's contribution sent me off to look, and, for what it's worth, I can't (yet) find a single photo of a tropical Vb with the strakes fitted. Edgar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckb1 Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 Edgar they are coming off, time for some sanding and polishing. I reached the same conclusion after trawling my resources and the net. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seawinder Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Okay, here are a couple of questions about Mk. Vb W3312 QJ-J. I've found a few photos of 92 Squadron Mk. Vs in which they don't seem to have either the IFF antenna wires or the gun-heating tubes coming out of the exhausts. Can anybody confirm this, especially with regard to W3312? Thanks, Pip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerbob Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Those of you thinking about Duke's, see my post 448 above- link to photo. Pip, I'm not sure when the augmentor heat was first fitted (Edgar will have a date, I'm sure) but I wouldn't expect to see them in Spring '41. bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Roberts Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 (edited) I believe gun heating tubes, if fitted, were sometimes removed in the tropics and the desert. Sorry, no hard reference other than observation and discussion with fellow enthusiasts. Common amongst RAAF Spitfires - leaves a hole in the cowl panel behind the exhausts if you can find a photo of your subject. PR Edited August 11, 2014 by Peter Roberts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckb1 Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Hi Ginger Bob, same image that I found. Also had one in a book of N Dukes aircraft parked up and from what I could see no strengthening strips. So off they will come tonight. Going to mask round them to avoid collateral damage and gently remove then polish the wing up again looks fairly easy to do. Cheers Brendan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Pip, I'm not sure when the augmentor heat was first fitted (Edgar will have a date, I'm sure) but I wouldn't expect to see them in Spring '41.It's never easy to decipher the mod ledger, but 420 "To provide additional heating for Browning guns," on the IIb & Vb, seems to fit, and it dates from February 6th., 1942. Edgar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Spitfire AB509, a Vb or Vc? I know it has clipped wings but what prop does it have? Thanks, Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerbob Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 AB509 was a Vc, and had the fittings for the slipper tank when built (it was a very early example so equipped). There's a photo if you search "Spitfire AB509" that is a bit fuzzy, but appears to be the late Rotol type- the one with the broad root. bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 AB509 was a Vc, and had the fittings for the slipper tank when built (it was a very early example so equipped). There's a photo if you search "Spitfire AB509" that is a bit fuzzy, but appears to be the late Rotol type- the one with the broad root. bob Thanks for that, it seemed to be alternatively described as a Vb or Vc so wasn't sure. I found the pic of it but as you say it's pretty fuzzy. Regards, Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Ok so my next question is are there any aftermarket markings for a 1/48 Spitfire Vb (I'll be making Airfix one) that feature D-day stripes? Had a look but couldn't find any. Thanks, Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doorgunner Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Hello, I cannot miss the occasion to do a (stupid) question and have a reasonable reply..... Some post ago it is talk about the two retractable underwing light that was on Mk I to V. I am building a full scale late Mk I instrument panel as per original drawing n° 30034 SHT 10H where many items are missing respect to early Mk Is (gunsight switch, ammeter, top tank fuel gauge, dual compass card holder....) and one of these is the switch for landing lamps (port and starboard). Am I miss something ? TIA Ciao Maurizio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerbob Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Hmm, danger, speculation follows, but perhaps the landing lamps were added somewhere along the way- I know that landing flares (2) were fitted initially, then reduced to one, then eliminated, so perhaps there's a relationship? bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 The big lever with the black knob is the control for dipping the lamps, and the black "flip" switch is for lowering them. As far as I can tell, the toggle switch is four-position, and I can read "left on" "right on" and "off," but not the bottom one, sorry. The flares were completely separate, and released via Bowden cables by a pair of pull handles down by the left side of the seat, out of view of your photo. Edgar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doorgunner Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Thanks a lot, my doubt still resist as why in a late Mk I and in Mk II drawing too, this switch (and I presume the whole light assembly) isn't fitted. At this point it disappeared very soon and do not arrived up to early MkVs? Is this to be considered a feature of early Mk Is as seen on the footage "the daily inspection of a Spitfire" ? TIA Maurizio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 The lamps were deleted, on all Marks, from 29-3-43 (the RAF received notification in February.) If the same basic drawing covered all instrument panels, on the early Marks, the provision for the switch would have been erased, by the drawing office, from the drawing from that date, so later copies wouldn't show them. The mod was "Class 4B & on repair," so the removal of the lamps would have been immediate on the production line, and also whenever an airframe went in for repair or maintenance. Edgar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seawinder Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Belated thanks, Edgar and others, for the responses to my question about the gun heating tubes. I'm still wondering about the IFF antenna wires. As I mentioned before, photos of 92 Sqn Vbs seem to show the fuselage mounting points, but not the wires. Am I (not) seeing things, or was the IFF antenna not always (widely?) employed in mid/late 1941? Thanks again, Pip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 It's always possible that the wires were disconnected and pulled back inside the fuselage. The I.F.F. had to be disconnected, and its connecter stowed safely, to avoid any possibility of the explosive charge being set off accidentally, during servicing. The charge could also be set off by concussion, so the set might even have been removed, together with the wires; if it remained, a tug on the wire could have pulled it off its shelf, or jarred it. Edgar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The wooksta V2.0 Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 Would I be right in assuming that conversion from "C" to "E"wing could be done at maintenance unit level, rather than send the aircraft back to the factory? I'm sure this question has been asked, or answered in a roundabout fashion but given the sheer volume of Spitfire threads it's like looking for the proverbial solitary piece of hay in a stackful of needles. Got some whiffs in mind but want a toehold in reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerbob Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 I think it called for a Supermarine working party, but they could do the work on site. bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The wooksta V2.0 Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 Thanks, Bob. Means I can crack on with the Ve and XIIe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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