All The spitfire questions you want to ask here

[RichardPrice]

Does any one here have experience in using the Miracle Masks products ?

Opinions would be appreciated.

John

I used them on a Tamiya 1:32 Spitfire build and can heartily recommend them

[VivianWatts]

Hi guys,

For the distinctive copper pipes seen in Spitfire (I'd doing the Tamiya Mk IXc early), Tamiya specifies to paint them XF-71 green. I often see these unpainted in photos of warbirds and builds online. Does anyone know (Edgar?) whether these were actually painted on a wartime Mk IXc? Say Johnny Johnson's JE J?

Thanks guys

VW

[Edgar]

Copper pipes were supposed to be left untreated, except where rubber joints were to be fitted (so the paint would not be visible,) which were to have a coat of white enamel.

[davidelvy]

Does any one here have experience in using the Miracle Masks products ?

Opinions would be appreciated.

John

I used the 1/48 version. It made the process so much easier than Blu Tac rolls. Adhesion was good and although there was a little bit of paint creep in places I would put this down to lack of care on my part.

[Edgar]

A nice and easy question regarding Spitfire paintwork. For both an HFVII and a PRXI finished with PRU blue undersides, what colour are the undercarriage bays and inside of the gear doors.

Likeliest would be silver, or, later in the war, cockpit grey-green. After the factory was destroyed in 1940, Supermarine's airframes were manufactured in 25 different sites, and assembled in a further four (P.R. aircraft usually in a former bus garage in Henley.) It's likely that components would have been manufactured in batches, then taken from stores as required; covers (and that included the engine compartment) were originally supposed to be silver inside, and grey primer on the outside, so why would they have painted the insides (already carrying a finishing coat of silver or green) with another colour finishing coat on top? (Paint stocks were not infinite.)

The wells colour is an old vexed question, but there are (or were ) examples of late-build airframes (e.g. XIX & 22) with green wells, and, since the interior colour changed from silver to green, at some time in the war (MH434 has/had a green fuselage interior,) it would seem that Supermarine considered them to be internal areas, so early airframes should have been silver, when manufactured.

[Sean_M]

I used the 1/48 version. It made the process so much easier than Blu Tac rolls. Adhesion was good and although there was a little bit of paint creep in places I would put this down to lack of care on my part.

I am also making masks using the same 810 Oramask. I got fed up because masks I paid for an ordered never arrived from Miracle Masks. There is a learning curb and I am happy to share what I have gleaned. There seems to be a culture of secrecy about mask making. I am happy to share what I know. There is a topic on cutters. just PM me.

P.S. Here is the post http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234937967-craft-robvinyl-cutter-and-masking/

As always Britmodeller people are happy to help each other. I am just about to start my Tomahawk IIB masks. The Spitfire Mk1-V are done with roundels. Just waiting for logo etc and will be packaging them for sale. Sorry for digressing off the Thread!!!

[VivianWatts]

Copper pipes were supposed to be left untreated, except where rubber joints were to be fitted (so the paint would not be visible,) which were to have a coat of white enamel.

Thanks Edgar!

[Simon Cornes]

Likeliest would be silver, or, later in the war, cockpit grey-green. After the factory was destroyed in 1940, Supermarine's airframes were manufactured in 25 different sites, and assembled in a further four (P.R. aircraft usually in a former bus garage in Henley.) It's likely that components would have been manufactured in batches, then taken from stores as required; covers (and that included the engine compartment) were originally supposed to be silver inside, and grey primer on the outside, so why would they have painted the insides (already carrying a finishing coat of silver or green) with another colour finishing coat on top? (Paint stocks were not infinite.)

The wells colour is an old vexed question, but there are (or were ) examples of late-build airframes (e.g. XIX & 22) with green wells, and, since the interior colour changed from silver to green, at some time in the war (MH434 has/had a green fuselage interior,) it would seem that Supermarine considered them to be internal areas, so early airframes should have been silver, when manufactured.

Many thanks Edgar. The airframes in question are MD111 and PL775. I have been looking at some decal sheets on line and I think that I am inclined to go for interior green wheel bays and silver/natural metal insides to the doors and legs. Would that stack up do you think?

Simon

[Sky Pilot]

I have a question which, no doubt, many of the BM brethren will be able to answer. The instructions for the "new" 1/48 Airfix Spit Vb show (in the cockpit insert assembly) the rear 1/3rd of the cockpit area walls as having a plain aluminium finish whereas the remainder of the cockpit walls are finished in a cockpit green. Would this, in reality, be correct ?

I have also noticed that , although shown in the instructions, a small locating lug at the bottom of the IP bulkhead does not exist on the plastic - but a suitable socket is cut in the appropriate place in the plastic. This is no great problem as far as the build is concerned. It's just WELL! - disappointing. But I suppose that's Airfix for you

COME ON LADS - sort yourselves out - End Of Gripe

[Edgar]

There's a lug on the bottom of mine, which would be easy to (mistakenly) remove if I were to cut the bulkhead off the sprue from the fuel tank side.

[Edgar]

I am inclined to go for interior green wheel bays and silver insides to the doors and legs. Would that stack up do you think?

I don't see why not (and silver, never natural metal.)

[Mark12]

[Simon Cornes]

I don't see why not (and silver, never natural metal.)

Thanks Edgar, I'll go with that. The photo above shows how subjective the matter is. Its in colour but is that showing gear bays in the underside colour? As you say, it depends on the point in time when the picture was taken.

Simon

[Mark12]

Simon,

This is a period PR XI colour image.

What you see on your monitor and what I see on mine, and the high res original, may be different.

This particular aircraft has PRU blue undercarriage bays, undecarraiage legs and inner faces of the gear doors.

The comparison you should make is the area of the silver main wheel against the adjacent PRU blue of the inner face of the gear door.

For the record a quick check on the movement card shows no accident or combat damage that might have resulted in repairs/replacement and consequent repainting in service.

Edited February 25, 2015 by Mark12

[Simon Cornes]

Thanks for that Mark and I agree your interpretation. OK so my PRXI will have PRU blue bays, doors and legs and my HFVII will have interior green bays, silver insides to gear doors and u/c legs. Unless someone else comes up with something compelling to the contrary!!

Thanks again,

Simon

[Troy Smith]

I have a question which, no doubt, many of the BM brethren will be able to answer. The instructions for the "new" 1/48 Airfix Spit Vb show (in the cockpit insert assembly) the rear 1/3rd of the cockpit area walls as having a plain aluminium finish whereas the remainder of the cockpit walls are finished in a cockpit green. Would this, in reality, be correct ?

yes,

see

http://spitfiresite.com/2010/07/anatomy-of-spitfire-cockpit.html

The aircraft serving as our subject is Supermarine Spitfire Mk. Vb BL628 YO-D, recently completed by Avspecs Ltd in Auckland, New Zealand. Due to the fantastic quality of the restoration work which took full 30 years, the cockpit of this Spitfire conforms almost entirely to wartime production standards. For this reason, the following photographs can serve as reliable reference to the cockpit layout of the production Spitfire Mk. V.

[Mark12]

Here are few more period colour shots to discuss. All taken at Hullavington circa 1946.

Mk V.

Mk IX.

Mk 24.

Seafire Mk 46.

[Sky Pilot]

Mark 12

I do like the colour shots. They will come in very handy.

[Sky Pilot]

Troy

Many thanks for your confirmation and the Spitfiresite link. Its quite amazing just how "busy" the Spitfire cockpit was.

John

[Sky Pilot]

There's a lug on the bottom of mine, which would be easy to (mistakenly) remove if I were to cut the bulkhead off the sprue from the fuel tank side.

Edgar. Many thanks for your response.

Regarding the lug on the bottom of yours ( ) I believe that, as you suggested, I must have mistakenly removed the said lug when I cut the bulkhead from the sprue - SILLY ME!. But it shouldn't affect the build.

Hope this is a useful warning to future Airfix Mk V builders.

I suspect that you are about to or have already built the Mk Vb kit. If so, what are your views on the colour of the cockpit seat frame ? The instructions specify Humbrol No 62 "Leather" but it doesn't look right - too light - were the frames really that colour ? Reminds me of Brahn' boots at a weddin'.

[Edgar]

There wasn't, really, A colour, since the mixture of paper and resin + heat seems to have given a whole range of reds:-

Edited February 25, 2015 by Edgar

[Sky Pilot]

That's what I was hoping you would say Edgar. I shall darken the colour somewhat - to a dark brown.

Edited February 25, 2015 by Sky Pilot

[Sky Pilot]

Off topic I'm afraid but how long does it usually take for purchases from Eduard to be delivered in the UK ? I ordered some overtrees two weeks ago.

It's OK folks. I have the answer (2 weeks). I've just received my Spit MkVIII overtrees. IMHO they are impressive.

While I'm at it I have another question.

I am hoping to add a set of harness/seatbelts to the Airfix Vb cockpit. However, the slot at the top of the armour plating behind the pilot's seat is very narrow - about the thickness of a scalpel blade. Its position is shown on the plastic but, because of its narrowness, I am apprehensive about cutting the opening to reasonable accuracy without doing a bodge job. I'm sure that someone here who has done this successfully might be able to give some advice.

TIA

Edit : It's alright Chaps I've done the slot - with a No 11 scapel blade and a steady hand.

Edited February 28, 2015 by Sky Pilot

[maltadefender]

I'm planning to build John Dundas's Mk.Ia X4586 as it was during the battle with Helmut Wick. All depictions that I've seen are for plain Sky undersides without roundels - but on 28 November 1940 would it not have had a black port wing and roundels?

[Edgar]

The black port wing was not ordered until an A.M.O., dated 12-12-40; roundels were reintroduced in August 1940, by way of a memo, dated 11-8-40, directly from Air Ministry H.Q.