noelvt Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Taking full advantage of my stupid question quota! What are the pair of tanks/bottles on the port side of the fuselage aft of the pilot's bulkhead, and what color were they? I've seen green, white, silver, and grey. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 They're the compressed-air tanks, used for blowing down the flaps, firing guns, etc. Normally they were silver on early airframes, but might have changed on later Marks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeSmith Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Thank you Bob, but I suspect this device was not a voltage regulator. According to some sources "....on early Spitfire it was mounted low on the back of frame 11, directly behind the pilot's seat [thus not visible]. Starting in the N30xx series this was repositioned higher on frame 11, appearing low in the rear transparency, and from N32xx it was mounted more higher, directly behind the pilot's headrest". In addition on some Spitfires both devices are installed: Flavio Hi Flavio The silver object visible under the rear cockpit glazing is the undercarriage (chassis) hydraulic system fluid reservoir. This location of the reservoir is only applicable to the early hand pump operated installation. The hydraulic system fluid reservoir was relocated to the firewall with the introduction of the engine driven hydraulic pump. You can make out the filler cap centre top of the tank. Obviously not commonly seen as the manual hand pumps were done away with quite quickly. Hope this helps. Joe 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Roberts Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 That is very interesting Joe, thanks for the info! I am wanting to do an early Spitfire so will need to incorporate this. It looks like it is attached to the rear section of the canopy with two bolts (?). I presume this would be plumbed to the pump? PR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Swindell Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Joe What a name for this thread - Any relation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sky Pilot Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 (edited) This question might have been asked before - in which case I can't find it (sorry). The Spitfire type LF IX - not "LF IXc" or "LF IXe" - was otherwise know as the IXB. Does this denote that the wing type was "b". Similarly does the type HF IX denote the "b" wing type ? John Edited January 28, 2015 by Sky Pilot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 This question might have been asked before - in which case I can't find it (sorry). The Spitfire type LF IX - not "LF IXc" or "LF IXe" - was otherwise know as the IXB. Does this denote that the wing type was "b". Similarly does the type HF IX denote the "b" wing type ? John No. I've got to go and no time to search IIRC there are threads on this, but the 'IXB' is a red herring, no Mk IX ever got the B wing, the B wing was inferior to the C wing, why waste time making a IX with a B wing? PS EDIT - http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234963779-spitfire-b-wing-conversion/ and bob post below Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerbob Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 "IXB" was front-line shorthand for the new version with "low" rated engine. HFs and LFs could be found in 'c' (proper designation HF/LF.IX (no suffix)) and 'e' flavors. As far as I know Troy is correct that there were NO, and I mean NO 'b' winged 2-stage Merlin Spitfires, or Griffon for that matter. Rolls Royce did, however, convert one Mk.I ('a' wing) as a Merlin 61 testbed, but it would be a stretch to call it a "Mk.IXa"! (There was also the first Mk.III prototype converted to test the 2-stage Merlin.) bob 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sky Pilot Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 (edited) So, from the above and elsewhere, IX and LF IX are synonymous i.e the "c" is silent. EDIT: And where, for example, LF IXc appears it means what it says. As you have said elsewhere Troy : - See, makes perfect sense! Oh, BTW, thanks for your help. John Edited January 28, 2015 by Sky Pilot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Not quite: Mk.IXB and LF Mk.9 are synonymous, the latter being official the former unofficial but contemporary. Adding a c to the official F Mk.IX or LF Mk.IX or HF Mk.IX is a postwar habit of enthusiasts, and isn't strictly necessary but it is sometimes helpful. LF Mk.IXe is official. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flavio Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Hi Flavio The silver object visible under the rear cockpit glazing is the undercarriage (chassis) hydraulic system fluid reservoir. This location of the reservoir is only applicable to the early hand pump operated installation. The hydraulic system fluid reservoir was relocated to the firewall with the introduction of the engine driven hydraulic pump. You can make out the filler cap centre top of the tank. Obviously not commonly seen as the manual hand pumps were done away with quite quickly. Hope this helps. Joe Thank you very much Joe! Flavio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Work In Progress Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Talking of Spitfires, as I know nothing about them, and have never made a model of one, but does anyone know what happened to the Spifires outside RAF Uxbridge and RAF Northolt, as I rememer them when I was young in the 70's and early 80's until they replaced them with replicas "They" were the same aeroplane, Mk 22 PK624, which was first at Uxbridge4, then at Northolt. For the last couple of decades it has been with TFC at Duxford for long term restoration (unless it's moved in the last couple of years, but I as far as I know it's still there) . http://fighter-collection.com/cft/tfc-aircraft-directory/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhantomBigStu Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 As it's a bob year, would like to do a few Bob spitfires using the 1/72 Airfix, for a reason I rather avoid doing the in box scheme Dw-k, I know xtradecal do brian lanes Qv-k which is one I will be doing but what else is out there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerbob Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 As it's a bob year, would like to do a few Bob spitfires... Good man! bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Work In Progress Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 (edited) http://www.hannants.co.uk/product/X72117has four B of B Spitfires on it, same number of Hurricanes and a Blenheim, Defiant and Gladiator from the B of B too. Edited January 31, 2015 by Work In Progress Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sky Pilot Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 I have, so far, been unable to locate any Mk IXs fitted with Aboukir filters like those for Mk Vs. However, I have read that two modified versions of the Aboukir filter were fitted, as standard, to Mk IXs. One of these, the smaller (shorter) version was fitted to early Mk IXs whilst the larger (longer) version was fitted to later Mk IXs. Is this correct ? If so, was this practice continued with subsequent marks of the Spitfire. May I also ask when and by whom were the Spitfire pointed wing tips first fitted ? All responses would be appreciated. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 (edited) Look on this site for the RAAF unit defending the Nile Delta. Probably use "Aboukir" as a search term. Sorry, I don't recall the unit, but a photo has been published more than once. I don't know about two different versions on the Mk.IX. The pointed wingtips were first fitted to the Mk.VI, on the production line. Then the Mk.VII, then the Mk.VIII. They could be fitted to the Mk.IX but this was rare, if at all. Edited January 31, 2015 by Graham Boak 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magpie22 Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 No. 451 Squadron RAAF. Corsica 1944. Overall Medium Sea grey. There has been some discussion re those colours before. Others disagree. MA466. BQ-S MH324. BQ-E Note that outer cannon fairings have been removed on MH324. Magpie22 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 I'd agree MH324 is overall MSG, but MA486/BQ-S looks to be standard high altitude scheme, Med Sea Grey over PRU Blue, note difference between side cowl panel and undercowling. also seen on Mk VII's and PR X , note fighter windscreen. see here for more on this http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/29201-spitfire-mkx/#entry316812 Something for the weekend sir? a load of interesting pics here for sunday perusal http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?83999-Spitfire-Odds-n-Ends 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beard Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 I've been making an Airfix Mk1 as the example that the French bought in 1939 and need some advice about the airframe colours. There's a distinct lack of photographs of it and AZ would have you paint it in DE/DG with aluminium undersides. What do you knowledgeable folk reckon? Ther Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Sounds right. I don't see them bothering with black/white undersides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beard Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Sounds right. I don't see them bothering with black/white undersides. Thanks Graham, aluminium it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerbob Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 May I also ask when and by whom were the Spitfire pointed wing tips first fitted ? Graham was right for production, but the pointed wingtips originally were associated with the proposed "Mk.IV" Griffon Spitfire. They then were carried over to the pressure cabin development, and were first seen on X4942 the pressure-cabin prototype (or Mk.VI prototype), which was first flown on or around 4 July '41. They were on Mk.VI and VII, early VIII, and the first few Mk.21s (prototypes and first production). Although I'm sure an exception can be found, they were not normally used on Mk.IXs. bob 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sky Pilot Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 (edited) Graham I found this on another thread : copied from another forumQuoted from Morgan and Shacklady's Spitfire book. This all they have written up about the Aboukir filter"The large Vokes tropical intake was not well liked by the services and it was not long before unofficial modifications began to appear, the most successful and designed and installed by that most resourceful team at No. 103 MU Aboukir. They trimmed the filter back to a much smaller unit, one that was more efficient and drag reducing. It was named the Aboukir filter and the Vokes Aero-Vee, fitted to the Mark IX Spitfire, was based upon this local modification. Supermarine was quick to appreciate the lower drag of the modified intake and they tested a number of hand-built units on two VC's and a Seafire Mk. II. The test comprised speed runs with the normal temperate intake, the normal tropical and Aboukir. The VC's were EF541 and JK940 and Seafire NM977, the former with Merlin 45's and de Havilland hydromatic propellors, the latter with Merlin 46's and Rotol Jablo. The new type of cowling was infinitely better of the three tested and there was a weight reduction of 20 pounds. Another bonus was that with the filter element removed the Aboukir could be used as a normal temperature intake." End of quote. Funnily enough, Reply #843 above shows two a/c (MA466 and MH324 - both Mk IXs) fitted with what look like Aboukir filters (as per the Mk Vs). Also, Reply #844 shows MD124 (a Mk VII) fitted with a small (short) filter. Could the second a/c shown be a Mk V ? Moving on to the Mk IX kits, The Eduard 1/48 Mk IXc Early kit artwork shows an a/c with a small (short) filter whereas the artwork for the Late kit shows an a/c with a larger (long) filter. Were both of these filters based on the Aboukir ? If so, which of these was the Aero - vee ? Might the Freightdog Aboukir filter conversion set be compatible with the Eduard kits ? Any opinions/corrections related to the above would be appreciated. John Edited February 1, 2015 by Sky Pilot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 (edited) #844 shows the standard temperate air intake for a Mk.IX in the upper photo, and the Aerovee intake in the lower photo. Neither are the Aboukir fit, which can be seen in #843. The lower aircraft in #844 is captioned, correctly in my opinion, as a PR Mk.X. Although some Mk.Vs had six-a-side exhausts, none had two radiators, pressurised cockpits, 4-blade props, deeper nose for enlarged oil tank, the later "Mk.XII" tail nor retractable tailwheel. The quote from STH is clearly a distorted summary being doubtful in chronology and detail. "Infinitely better" is journalistic hyperbole and the Aboukir filter cannot have been 20lb lighter than the temperate one (or better performing). The comparison with the Vokes filter is presumably what was meant and as such much more believable. Incidentally, JK940 was not delivered until late March 1943, which was four months after the appearance of the revised tropical intake on JF275 the second prototype Mk.VIII - the first JF274 having a much larger fairing presumably over a standard Vokes filter system. I suspect the "they tested" was not Supermarine but RAE Farnborough, JK940 having been equipped with a tow point for glider tug trials there, and these trials can only have followed long after the design of the Aerovee. Just what its relation was to the Aboukir I know not, but it will have needed some redesign to cope with the increased airflow of the more powerful engine. A measure of this can be seen by comparing the temperate intakes of the Mk.V and Mk.IX. Edited February 1, 2015 by Graham Boak 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts