All The spitfire questions you want to ask here

[Sky Pilot]

Spitfire IXc EN520 Photo Search

Could someone with access to the following - Spitfire Patrol, (Hutchinson, London, 1990), p. 111 - check for the possible presence of a photo of EN520 showing the upper wing and, if so, can the cannon blister be convincingly discerned as either an "early" (wide) type or a "late" (narrow) type ?

Any other alternative evidence would be greatly appreciated.

John

[Sky Pilot]

In the following extract from spitfire production records

EN520 IX 3972 R-R M63 FF 11-2-43 R-RH Cv IX 9MU 13-2-43 47MU 25-2-43 Wanderer 12-3-43 Gibraltar 24-3-43 Malta 1-7-43 Sicily 1-8-43 Engine cut abandoned N of Malta 12-8-43 SOC 13-8-43

does the italicised and underlined reference indicate the actual conversion performed - would it have been from a Mk V ?

John

[Edgar]

EN520 is listed as one of the Mk.V conversions to Mk.IX, carried out by Rolls-Royce, and, that early, it would have had a broad cannon blister cover.

[Sky Pilot]

EN520 is listed as one of the Mk.V conversions to Mk.IX, carried out by Rolls-Royce, and, that early, it would have had a broad cannon blister cover.

Many thanks for confirming my suspicion. I am planning to build the Eduard Spitfire Mk IXC (early) Weekend kit as a converted British subject in desert camo and felt that EN520 was a good as any.

Now ! To source some decals. There aren't many about. So far I have found some by Victory Productions from Hannants but they are a bit pricey (£20) but the sheets cover about 40 different Spits, providing enough stuff for four a/c.

Once again THANKS.

John

[Edgar]

Sadly, this is where I'm going to ruin your plans; fighters heading for Malta, in 1943, were not painted in desert scheme, but in Day Fighter Scheme of Dark Green/Ocean Grey, with Light Mediterranean Blue undersides.
EN534, on the other hand, was also a converted Vc-IX, did go to North Africa, so would have been in desert scheme, and was eventually flown, in Italy, by 232 Squadron, as EF-B (white 24" codes,) still in desert colours, with a red spinner. In case you're wondering how I've concentrated on this airframe, my initials are EFB, and I built one, years ago, for my father.

Edited January 20, 2015 by Edgar

[Sky Pilot]

Sadly, this is where I'm going to ruin your plans; fighters heading for Malta, in 1943, were not painted in desert scheme, but in Day Fighter Scheme of Dark Green/Ocean Grey, with Light Mediterranean Blue undersides.

EN534, on the other hand, was also a converted Vc-IX, did go to North Africa, so would have been in desert scheme, and was eventually flown, in Italy, by 232 Squadron, as EF-B (white 24" codes,) still in desert colours, with a red spinner. In case you're wondering how I've concentrated on this airframe, my initials are EFB, and I built one, years ago, for my father.

Having read your attempt at spoiling my fun and your interest in EN534, considering the close proximity of its conversion date to that for EN520, might I respectfully suggest that the camo schemes for both would have been the same - bearing it in mind that their intended destinations were the same.

I will, of course, appreciate your comments.

John

[Graham Boak]

The intended destinations were not the same - Malta was treated as a different theatre despite the supposed overall control of ME HQ. Malta had rejected Desert camouflage at a much earlier date. I'm not as confident as Edgar that the Spitfires headed for Malta at this date were in Day Fighter rather than Temperate Land, as many of the Spitfires on Malta do seem to have been in the latter, but that's a different matter from the use of the Desert scheme.

[VoyTech]

EN520 [...] would have had a broad cannon blister cover.

This is debatable!

Photos of EN464, EN526 and EN527 in early to mid-1943 show all of them with narrow blister covers, so I guess EN520 had narrow blister covers from the outset as well.

[JackG]

There was a thread about year ago with some discussion on EN520

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234947486-another-ed-spitfire-ix-late-colin-gray/

A web site has this aircraft based in Tunisia and had been flown by Colin Gray, so caption from there is incorrect?

http://www.spitfireperformance.com/spit9v109g.html

regards,

Jack

[Graham Boak]

That looks like a broad cannon cover on a fighter in the EN52x range, whatever its actual serial.

[Sky Pilot]

Spitfire Cowlings

Could someone please point me to the whereabouts of the reply, in this forum, showing drawings of the different cowlings evolved for spitfire engine upgrades. I have saved it somewhere and searched but can I find it ? NOPE ! Just the page number will do.

TIA

John

[Troy Smith]

Spitfire Cowlings

Could someone please point me to the whereabouts of the reply, in this forum, showing drawings of the different cowlings evolved for spitfire engine upgrades. I have saved it somewhere and searched but can I find it ? NOPE ! Just the page number will do.

TIA

John

Hi John

if you mean the different types of Mk IX cowling?

source page is this

http://spitfiresite.com/2010/04/spitfire-mk-ix-xi-and-xvi-variants-much-varied.html

that was on page 36 of this http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234952528-all-the-spitfire-questions-you-want-to-ask-here/page-36

or did you mean something else?

[Sky Pilot]

Troy

On the button again, Thank you.

Might I, cheekily , ask if you know what the profile - domed/flat, depth, round/square edged - is of the cover/plate shown on the top of the "initial Mk IX cowling produced by Rolls-Royce" (item (2) in the cowling drawings".

John

Edited January 22, 2015 by Sky Pilot

[gingerbob]

Bulgy. There's a fuzzy photo in the Spitfire Site link, and a bit of searching should turn up some better ones.

bob

[Portamus]

Greetings chaps... having just read through the majority of this thread.. I am sure I will find my answers here!

I am looking to build a particular set of Spitfires that my grandfather flew, firstly in 9 Sqn SAAF, and then later on in 145 Sqn RAF.

In 9 Sqn, he flew MA 504... Which I am aware of being one of the specially modified SHFs. He always spoke fondly of this machine, and always regretted having lost the photographs he had of it. Needless to say, when he passed on, I inherited his logbooks, and a briefcase of his personal effects, including a pic of MA 504.

I have been on the Spitfire site, and traced as much as I could of the aircraft, that it was build as an IX (T) tropical filter, and that its was built at CB. I am fairly certain it had the later narrow type of cannon blisters. Pictures show for certain that it had the early type rudder, but I am not 100% certain that it had the early type elevator config. The scanned pic that I have, may indicate that it had the later type elevators... a very similar configuration to the Spitfire VIII that is preserved at the South African Military museum.

I have just managed to find an Eduard Spitfire IXc (late), by pure luck. With my limited resources/knowledge I would assume that this kit would provide a good base for representing MA 504?

The second Spitfire I would like to build, would be a VIII he flew in 145 Sqn. ZX-V... which I believe may have been JF 274. I have managed to get hold of some copies of 145 Sqn war diary, and matching the sorties in his logbook has lead me to this belief. According to the Spitfire serial site, it was the first production VIII... which leads me further to believe that it may have had the extended wingtips. My grandfather often spoke a Spitty that he flew with 'beautiful extended wingtips'... he made a few remarks in his logbook about his beloved ZX-V. Would the aircraft have appeared in a scheme similar to this VIII? http://www.asisbiz.com/il2/Spitfire/LFVIII-RAF-145Sqn-ZX.html

I have 2 scans here of his sitting in a Spitfire about to go and fly, and then of him on take off.. apologies for the large pics.

Can anyone confirm a little more about these Spitfires? I am patiently waiting for Eduard to release a VIII in 48... and will most likely borrow the extended wingtips from my ICM kit, if indeed his favored VIII was JF 274, and that it did have extended wing tips.

Thanks in advance!

Aristide

[Sky Pilot]

Can someone please tell me how to identify the Spitfires which were actually built as Mk Vs before being converted to Mk IXs. Also, are there any photos which clearly show the initial cowling fitted during the Mk V to Mk IX conversions.

TIA

John

[Graham Boak]

The intention was that the Mk.VIII was to have the extended tips, and they were fitted with the high-rated Merlin 63. Without a picture, one should never say never, but it would be astonishing if KF274 did NOT have the extended tips. They were not removed from production before some considerable service experience.

[Sky Pilot]

Sadly, this is where I'm going to ruin your plans; fighters heading for Malta, in 1943, were not painted in desert scheme, but in Day Fighter Scheme of Dark Green/Ocean Grey, with Light Mediterranean Blue undersides.

EN534, on the other hand, was also a converted Vc-IX, did go to North Africa, so would have been in desert scheme, and was eventually flown, in Italy, by 232 Squadron, as EF-B (white 24" codes,) still in desert colours, with a red spinner. In case you're wondering how I've concentrated on this airframe, my initials are EFB, and I built one, years ago, for my father.

Edgar

I am interested in your comment about EN534 as it provides me with an alternative to EN520. So far I have not been able to locate any decals for EN534 and now wonder if you had to build up the squadron and serial codes.

John

[Edgar]

As I was working in 1/32, I needed 3/4" letters (24"/32 = 3/4") and found the right size and style in Letraset (Helvetica Medium) & Mecanorma (Univers 67) pressure-sensitive lettering, and, as I couldn't find white, I used Peter Cooke's method of spraying matt white (I must stress that it has to be matt paint) on the fuselage, first, then lightly burnishing the letters into place; after spraying the camouflage colours, the letters were removed by Sellotape, leaving the white to show through.

Use gloss white, and the letters won't release, without a helluva struggle. This system also works for other colours, especially Sky; if you find white letters, you won't need to go through that rigmarole, of course, and, in 1/48, we're talking 1/2" or as near 12.7mm as you can get.

According to Peter Moss, in 1970, Rolls-Royce Mk.V conversions to Mk.IX were: AA873, AB196, AB197, AB456-460, AB501, AB505, AB507, AB508, AB511, AB522, AB525, BR138-143, BR369-371, BR621-640, BS271-290 (of these 273, 335, 336 were temporarily mis-lettered as "BF" but eventually renumbered correctly; "BF274" remained wrongly marked throughout its service) BS335-354, BS530-559, EN112-121, EN239-258, EN351-370, EN515-534, EN551-583, EN628-637, ES107, ES291, JK429, JK463, JK535, JK620, JK659, JK668, JK762, JK769, JK795, JK840, JK860, JK880, JK949, JK979, JL106, JL107, JL109-111, JL132, JL159, JL163, JL165, JL172, JL217, JL223, JL234, JL239, JL347, JL349, JL351, JL353-356, JL359, JL361, JL364, JL366, JL369, JL370, JL372, JL373, JL385, JL395, MA298, MA329, MA357, MA645, MA646, MA648, MA651, MA655, MA657.

Vickers-Armstrong did EN843, EP499, EP615, ER126, ER713, ES185, JG722, JG739, JG936.

Although conversion from extended tips was relatively easy, "standard" wingtips were not introduced to the VIII production line until August 1944

Edited January 23, 2015 by Edgar

[Beard]

As I was working in 1/32, I needed 3/8" letters (24"/32 = 3/8") and found the right size and style in Letraset (Helvetica Medium) & Mecanorma (Univers 67) pressure-sensitive lettering, and, as I couldn't find white, I used Peter Cooke's method of spraying matt white (I must stress that it has to be matt paint) on the fuselage, first, then lightly burnishing the letters into place; after spraying the camouflage colours, the letters were removed by Sellotape, leaving the white to show through.

Use gloss white, and the letters won't release, without a helluva struggle. This system also works for other colours, especially Sky; if you find white letters, you won't need to go through that rigmarole, of course, and, in 1/48, we're talking 1/2" or as near 12.7mm as you can get.

That's a useful tip. I shall use it when I get round to doing a FAA Mk1 or a ASR Mk2 which, I beleive, used yellow codes.

Thank you.

(edited for clarity.)

Edited January 23, 2015 by Beard

[Sky Pilot]

Edgar

I mistakenly assumed that you built EN534 in 1/48, which is my scale. So I am back to square 1. Ah well Nil Desperandum.

John

[Sky Pilot]

Hey Bob

Who are you calling Bulgy ? How can you possibly know my shape ?

Actually I was referring to the cover (or whatever) shown on the drawing of the initial cowling produced by RR for the early Mk IVs - not the barely perceptible rise in front of the windscreen. It is shown just in front of the extension piece fitted by RR. I have found one photo which shows this but not at all clearly. The piece appears to be more like a plate but it's impossible to determine its dimensions.

Bear with me lad. I'm getting there - slowly.

John

A thought :- Could the affected cowling be that which I have just seen referred to as the "carbuncle" cowling ?

Edited January 23, 2015 by Sky Pilot

[Flavio]

Hi all,

please I would like to know what is the object visible in the rear part of the cockpit; this seems very common on early MkI Spitfire.

Thank you

Flavio

[gingerbob]

Probably wrong, but I think that's the voltage regulator, before it became the cylindrical thing on the back of the headrest.

John, Yes, I think "carbunkle" cowl, and I was referring to the scabbed on "bulgy" things on the aft upper corners. I'll see if I can rustle up a decent image.

bob

[Work In Progress]

Can someone please tell me how to identify the Spitfires which were actually built as Mk Vs before being converted to Mk IXs.

This is a fallacy. It was the orders and production slots that were converted from Mk V to Mk IX, it was not a case of completed aeroplanes being partially dismantled and modified.