Sean_M Posted December 20, 2014 Author Share Posted December 20, 2014 can anyone help with Tamiya or Mr Hobby color codes, I am about to do the lettering on my Mk I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 can anyone help with Tamiya or Mr Hobby colour codes, I am about to do the lettering on my Mk I Sean have a look here http://scalemodeldb.com/paint very exhaustive database on model paint. By lettering I presume you mean codes, which are Medium Sea Grey the Tamiya 'match' is XF-83. How good it is I don't know. Eduard don't give a mr.Hobby match, but I presume the Gunze on the Spitfire IX instruction sheet is C361 also worth a look http://www.cybermodeler.com/aircraft/spitfire/spitfire_profile01.shtml HTH 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sky Pilot Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 Depending on ones point of view this may or may not be a stupid question - I have heard it said that there's no such thing. When were the last Spitfire IIbs built. I have read, somewhere, that those built after May 1941 were fitted with metal ailerons - which is my immediate point of interest. However, I have also read that IIbs were built between January and March 1941. As I am planning to do a Mk Vb to IIb conversion it would be very convenient if I could retain the Vb's (metal) ailerons. Any advice or "polite" suggestions would be appreciated. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 The IIb was being produced through to July 1941, e.g P8701 which went to 303 Squadron 4-7-41. Any IIb which survived past the (nominal) May cut-off point would probably have had them retrofitted, anyway, such was the mad scramble to have the old type replaced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VoyTech Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 While I can't comment on the metal ailerons on Mk IIBs, I don't think P8701 ever joined 303 Sqn. According to my data the Spitfire was delivered to Northolt on 14 (not 4) July, just missing 303 as the squadron left for rest. P8701 was allocated to 306 Sqn and used by them until mid-September 1941. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 Which (again) is at variance with what's in "Spitfire the History," and (presumably) what's On the aircraft movement card. Fairly academic for the questioner, though, since, either way, it's well into his required timescale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 Possibly it was allocated to 303 but arrived too late at Northolt? I get the impression (possibly extrapolated from too few cases and selective memory) that the Polish units weren't too bothered about the paperwork when swapping aircraft between themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sky Pilot Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 Edgar Many thanks for the information supplied re Spitfire IIbs built after May 1941. Would I be pushing my luck by asking if you could provide the serial number blocks for such aircraft ? I am hoping that I can locate the 1/48 decals for one of these IIbs - preferably british. John P.S. Thanks for your response to the topic that I raised earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kallisti Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 My database agrees with Edgar that 303 received it on 4th July Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sroubos Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 (edited) Ok, pretty stupid question coming up Ever since I got hold of the new (well, new-ish) MkI from Airfix, I've wanted to do a double-build with the Tamiya MkI. However, to keep things interesting I've decided to deviate slightly from the manuals. I've got a nice FlevoDecals sheet with The Netherlands' Prince Bernhard's personal MkIIa on it. He always was a playboy, but I didn't know he had his own personal fighter aircraft! In any case, back to the question. I have the Airfix series 2 kit which can of course be built as a MkIIa, but I thought it would be cool to do that one as the early MkI that's also in the box, and use the MkIIa parts on the Tamiya to build that one as Ben's plane. Now my personal knowledge of Spitfires is limited and strangely enough the Airfix manual is not very clear on which parts to use on the IIa, but I think all it needs is the Coffman starter and the Rotol prop with the more rounded spinner. I'm not sure about which underwing oil cooler to use though, nor am I clear about the exhaust stacks. Can somebody clarify? Edited December 21, 2014 by sroubos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beard Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 I think the oil cooler on that sprue is for a mkV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 If the oil cooler intake shows as a complete circle clear of the wing. it is a Mk.V. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beard Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 Hopefully I can answer your second question too... I think the exhausts aren't for a MkII. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerbob Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 Right, for a Mk.II you'd want the round(ish) stacks, not the fishtails. (as a general rule, natch!) bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VoyTech Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 Which (again) is at variance with what's in "Spitfire the History," and (presumably) what's On the aircraft movement card. Fairly academic for the questioner, though, since, either way, it's well into his required timescale. 1. Totally agree that it's not important for the original questioner! 2. I daresay "StH" is at variance with what's on Aircraft Movement Cards in quite a few places. My data comes from: a. transcript of the Movement Card for P8701 done by a friend (so, admittedly, I can't guarantee it's any more correct than "StH"), b. 303 Sqn ORB, which was very detailed and generally credible at the time (quoting all sorts of flying, including fligh testing of new aircraft on arrival with the unit, not just ops). My database agrees with Edgar that 303 received it on 4th July Is your database based on any other source than "StH" or its web-available transcripts? Possibly it was allocated to 303 but arrived too late at Northolt? I get the impression (possibly extrapolated from too few cases and selective memory) that the Polish units weren't too bothered about the paperwork when swapping aircraft between themselves. Possibly. The transfer of a number of Mk IIB's from 303 to 306 in July 1941 has not been recorded in their Movement Cards. As regards your impression, I think it might be based on widespread cliches and what's been published in books/magazines rather than on any actual documentary data. Having done some research into Spitfire allocations (about 1500 of them) to Polish units I'd say they weren't any less bothered about between-unit movement paperwork than RAF units in general. The 303/306 case of July 1941 is an exception rather than a rule. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean_M Posted December 22, 2014 Author Share Posted December 22, 2014 I am on a mission (as you know) to make paint masks. I note looking at Eduard Royal Class pdf things are pretty much standard but then the “S” curve under the cockpit on the starboard side is more pronounced. http://www.dilipsarkarmbe.co.uk/johnson.htm This looks like to be similar IR Gleed Mk Vb. Did the pattern change? I know some IX’s were meant to be V’s http://forum.europeanaf.net/showthread.php?18884-Spitfire-Vb-W-C-Ian-R-Gleed Again the Nose on the MK I is different and the like goes almost straight down. On the Ml V it is more slanted cutting through the D access panel. I hope I am making sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerbob Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 Sean, one thing to consider is that the wing-fuselage fillets and (I think) cowlings were fitted "naked" (at least at Castle Brom) and painted in place. That could account for some variation between cockpit and wing, and obviously on the cowl. bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sky Pilot Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 I have the following questions regarding the Spitfire B wing :-a) Were fabric covered ailerons ever installed on B wings fitted to Mk I and Mk II Spitfires. Did the B wing on Mk Ib Spitfires house just two cannons or two cannons and four machine guns.Any advice would be appreciated.John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 I have the following questions regarding the Spitfire B wing :- a) Were fabric covered ailerons ever installed on B wings fitted to Mk I and Mk II Spitfires. Did the B wing on Mk Ib Spitfires house just two cannons or two cannons and four machine guns. Any advice would be appreciated. John John you don't seem to keep track of the answers or linked threads given. Metal ailerons only came in summer 41, so before that all Spitfire had fabric ailerons. the very first cannon armed planes in summer 1940 had only 2 cannon, but they tended to jam. This is in Price- Spitfire Story which is a recommended purchase. The few of these planes were withdrawn, and i ahve never seen a photo of one. when the problems had been iron out IB's ended up with 92 sq in November 1940, pics are in Price book, and these have the outer guns. Also, in this thread started by you - http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234971865-148-spitfire-mkvb-to-mkib-conversion/ I posted a pic R6923 IB later converted to VB, as this photo shows. Slightly narrower underwing bulges to a standard VB Photos are in 'The Spitfire Story' by Alfred Price, including an earlier one of R6293 with a black port wing and what look like a mk I oil cooler, on page 79 on my copy. The outer wing gun panels are clearly seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean_M Posted January 4, 2015 Author Share Posted January 4, 2015 what angle should I set the elevators for a parked position on the ground? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kallisti Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 I believe the elevators show be shown sloping downwards when parked - at least thats what I've always done. Gravity would tend to pull them down, which would make the stick flop back toward the instrument panel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 (edited) I've seen a comment - not sure of the source or how widespread the practice was - that when not in use the stick was taken back and a loop of seatbelt held over it to keep it back. This meant the elevators were parked trailing edge high. There is a good reason for not doing the reverse. Leaving the elevators dropped - trailing edge down - has them in the high lift position so a strong gust of wind would lift the tail and sent the aircraft dancing. With stick back any wind would add downforce to keep the tail on the ground. This would be even more relevant to lighter aircraft such as the Tiger Moth. I suggest a trawl through photos of service aircraft. I must admit not previously noticing any trend. Edited January 4, 2015 by Graham Boak 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tbolt Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 (edited) I've seen a comment - not sure of the source or how widespread the practice was - that when not in use the stick was taken back and a loop of seatbelt held over it to keep it back. This meant the elevators were parked trailing edge high. There is a good reason for not doing the reverse. Leaving the elevators dropped - trailing edge down - has them in the high lift position so a strong gust of wind would lift the tail and sent the aircraft dancing. With stick pack any wind would add downforce to keep the tail on the ground. This would be even more relevant to lighter aircraft such as the Tiger Moth. I suggest a trawl through photos of service aircraft. I must admit not previously noticing any trend. There's certainly plenty of pictures of parked Spitfire with the elevators in the down position, maybe they only held them up if high winds were expected, just like parking an aircraft into wind, which you would think would be right for a tail dragger. The P-47 control lock is engaged by pushing the control column forward, which I guess is why we see them with the elevators down most of the time. If the aircraft is parked into wind with the elevators locked in the down position, this will help keep the nose of the aircraft down, though this probably isn't a benefit for a tail dragger, but don't lock the elevators up on a nose wheeled aircraft! Edited January 4, 2015 by Tbolt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 All spitfires were supplied with this locking device, and it was normally stowed to the right of the seat (where you can't see it.)When not in use, the elevators had a maximum droop of around 23 degrees, remembering that, when parked, the tailplane wasn't level to start with.Drooped elevators were very common, largely because the pilot would push the stick forward before getting out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattlow Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Edgar Item C is locking the rudder...? Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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