trickyrich Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 Ok here we go, after much talking and boasting in the WhatIf III GB chat, I’ve finally plastic where my mouth is and started building “The Beast!” As we all know the WhatIf III GB didn’t get up, missed by that much, but I just couldn’t let such a good idea go unbuilt.........ask me latter next year as to how much of a good idea it was! This will be the first of two grand builds using the He-177 as a base, the second WILL be the “Amerika” bomber! For those that hadn’t seen the chat, this was a “Zwilling” version of the Heinkel He-177 Grief, a three (tripe DB-810 or six DB-605’s) engine monster designed for long range anti-shipping duties. Fitted out with advanced attack radars (nose and tail), guided munitions, and for the up close and personnel stuff a pair of 50mm cannons! Due to my very limited free time this will probably be quite a slow build and build updates only once a month, so please be patient. There will be a full story to go with this, as per all WhatIf’s and will be included in the final build photo.......or earlier if I’m too bored on shift. Ok lets go..... 1, do some crazy mock-up drawings so at least we have a plan to work to.... 2, then take two plain ordinary Revell He-177’s 3, measure up and cut (measure multiple times, cut, find unexpected gap, add filler and plastic plug,......figure out latter there was a better way to have done this the required no filler!! ) So the centre section is done but there will be quite a bit more added. I need a radiator for this engine, plus want to add a weapons pylon. So I’ll be adding a section behind the engine where the radiator will be housed, plus a “special weapons” pylon! Possible “mini nuclear carrier killer” missile or a heavier anti-shipping missile.......to be decided on and sourced. Have modified the rudders so I can fit the gun turret and radar radome, plus started putting together the control cockpit, will start the radar/weapons control cockpit once Santa has left! 4, admire handwork....and wonder what have I gotten myself into!! Just a couple of photos to show how big she will be.........rather large I think!!! Oh and there will be a couple of Junkers Jumo 004's to be mounted in the insides on the lower sections on the cockpit area, just for more power! 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Procopius Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ur5g0l93F2g Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trickyrich Posted December 24, 2013 Author Share Posted December 24, 2013 Hmmm that is really scary! Where is that from? But I take it you like my craziness! No smilies as on iPad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Procopius Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 Oh, it's from a rather outré children's cartoon called Adventure Time. I think saying I'm impressed is putting it mildly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mottlemaster Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 Love the idea and will follow this one until takeoff. Are you going to mount the Fw190 on top like on the ju 88 führungsmaschine ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arniec Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 Nice Zwilling Rich. I am very impressed with what you have already done. Keep up the good work. I will do a What if as well, but that will be next year after all the GB's I am in. I am a regular builder of What if's, I build at least one a year. I have build a Zwilling more than 10 years ago, but that was in 1/48 and with some Tamiya Do 335's. Boy was that difficult to transport. I believe the wingspan was about 80 cm. Cheers, 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trickyrich Posted December 24, 2013 Author Share Posted December 24, 2013 Love the idea and will follow this one until takeoff. Are you going to mount the Fw190 on top like on the ju 88 führungsmaschine ? it was a though for the next one i'll build, the even bigger "Amerika" bomber version, but it has a home on a Junkers which I still have to finish. I have build a Zwilling more than 10 years ago, but that was in 1/48 and with some Tamiya Do 335's. Boy was that difficult to transport. I believe the wingspan was about 80 cm. thanks Arnold, that sounded big! I won't be moving this one around with luck but the wing span will make it one of the biggest I have..........until the "Amerika"!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleeperService Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 Awesome!! I'm so glad you're going ahead with this one. The centre section is a very clever piece of work. I salute you. As soon as I can clear the bench a bit I'll be off as well. But not as fast as you seem to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trickyrich Posted December 27, 2013 Author Share Posted December 27, 2013 I may have gotten off to a good start but progress is halted for the next three weeks........which is very frustrating! The centre section actually could have been done better, even after all the thought I put into it, it wasn't until I had cut everything up and started gluing that I realised there was a better way to do it........of well. One thing I sort of forgot about was the radiator for the centre engine!!! But after a wee bit of thought I have come up with a solution that will work plus help out on another issue that was bugging me. I’m already planning to modify the centre nacelle, by adding a longer rear section to it! This will allow me to fit a radiator for the centre engine, plus allow the fitment of a “special weapons” pylon just behind the centre set of wheels. For the moment I plan to keep the centre set of wheels as original....though this could change! Changing them would free up more real estate for weapons...but it probably it a wee bit under powered now and even though it is a wiff I'd still like to the be within the realms of possibility! Jockney asked about colour schemes, not too sure yet but I have a few ideas. Have a huge selection of reference books on Luftwaffe colour schemes, so might use them for some inspiration, but the scheme will be a bit wiffy. As it will be and anti-shipping version it will probably be mostly greys but not sure if it will be splinter, squiggles, or blotches. I guess as the build progresses along I’ll get a clearer idea of its final look of the beast, so guess as the build matures the appearance will change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col. Posted December 27, 2013 Share Posted December 27, 2013 Glad to see this one going ahead Rich. Nice start Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike romeo Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 Great idea, Rich! I really like the geometry of your Zwilling and I think it looks very plausible. regards, Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwaterous Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 this one will be a monster(ously sized thing). I'm looking forward to more progress Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trickyrich Posted January 11, 2014 Author Share Posted January 11, 2014 cheers guys, I'll be back home this time next week so I'll be hitting the work bench to get this further along, hopefully I might be at the stage of closing up the bodies (that does sound weird??) before I head back on shift. Have ordered some extra bits; - Quick Boost FuG240 radar dome, will become the basis for the radar domes on both beasts (two in this one, RHS nose and RHS tail, and RHS nose on the Amerika bomber). - RB Model 37mm Flak 43 L/60 Gun Barrels two of, these little brass beauties will be under the radar dome on the RHS. At only $1.50 ea just couldn't resist. I was originally thinking of fitting a pair of 5cm Pack 38's but weight and recoil killed that idea. A pair of Flak 43’s with Tungsten core shells will be plenty good against ships and subs! - Unicraft Henschel GT.1200 Guided Flying Bomb, just looks cool and will look even better under the special weapons pylon on the centre wing section. -Antares – Atomic bomb set – not sure if this beast will carry an Anti-Shipping (or Carrier Killer for that matter!!!) version or not, the Amerika bomber will. As mentioned earlier this will be a work in progress with the final configuration to be decided as we go along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan B Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Quite clearly mad, just the same kind of madness that the RLM appeared to suffer from in fact. It looks so very plausible that I'm surprised it never actually existed, maybe if they had got the He117 to work properly this would have been the end result? I'm looking forward to seeing the end result of this one. Duncan B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radleigh Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Subscribing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trickyrich Posted January 11, 2014 Author Share Posted January 11, 2014 Quite clearly mad, just the same kind of madness that the RLM appeared to suffer from in fact. It looks so very plausible that I'm surprised it never actually existed, maybe if they had got the He117 to work properly this would have been the end result? I'm looking forward to seeing the end result of this one. Duncan B I agree, when you think of some of the other paper designs, this is quite normal!! Sort of why I am trying to make it as "real" a possible but still a whiffy. From everything I have read on the He-177's the later models weren't all that bad. The original models up to and including the A3's had the older DB-610's (coupled 605's), which had a bad habit of catching on fire, more often than not while flying!! From the A5 series onwards they had sorted out the "fire" issues and a few others (they had planned it to be a dive bomber......frightening though being the pilot doing that!!!), and it wasn't a bad aircraft, though still a bit complicated. But by this stage strategic bombers were still very low on the list or priorities other than that of the “Amerika” Bomber. The airframe was strong and layout not too bad, going to four engines would have been the go, planned He-277 (or He-177B depending on what you read). But there was plans for an improved coupled engine the DB620 which was to have a pair of the new DB625 or 628’s (?). So this the seed for the idea for this build, new improved engines, with a mad RLM twist. I’m trying to keep it as real/possible as I can. The He-377 Amerika” Bomber though will be a little madder, oh and this one still has to have the Junker Jumo 004's fitted, needs a wee bit more takeoff power! Not shown in the drawing….a late requirement from the RLM procurements! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan B Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 IIRC there is one of the coupled DB engines at Cosford, I remember seeing it many years ago anyway. As you say, 4 single engines would have been better, politics as much to blame for that not happening as anything else. Duncan B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trickyrich Posted January 21, 2014 Author Share Posted January 21, 2014 ok so off shift and time for an update. Seeing as i’m still in the half planning stage I started working on a lot of the smaller bits while the brain was planning. As you can see there is lots to do, plus the moulds for this model must be getting a little worn as there is quite a lot of flash on various bits. The engines are all sorted for the moment.....though this is another plan for those. The centre wing and pylon are still a bit of an issue just not sure of the look I’m after, I need to have a pylon plus somewhere for the centre engine radiator to go. This is where I’m at for the moment, I am open for any ideas or suggestions, I need the have a radiator and pylon plus enough room to clear undercarriage and ground! I haven’t cut the wing so it’s no drama if I change my mind! Oh and I doubt if anyone can guess the donor part used, it’s Airfix (that was their popular colour for this time), German, and very unusual, actually someone I see has done an amazing and lovely looking wiffy using two of these models..........hmmm something to add to the planning list ......anyway back to the subject! The cockpits are nearly sorted, the port side will remain pretty much standard, the Starboard is modified for a radar operators position, nearly done with the basics with that one. Got some lovely brass Flak36/37 barrels, plus the resin radar cone, may have to make some copies as I need three, just bought this one for sizing and planning. It’s starting to look something now, will be impressive when done. Some planning alternatives; Fit the 37mm’s in each nose instead of twin mount, more space but would interfere with main cockpit layout. Counter-rotating props.......hmmm interesting Junkers Jumo 004’s, not sure of location offset/one under each nose, don’t want wing mounted for this version. Engines Turbo/Supercharged, big turbo exhausts stacks like P-38’s, will have to look at engine layout to see how they would fit. Oh and this arrived while I was away....very nice, will go nicely with another resin 1/48 Ju-388 I have coming...that makes 3 now! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Heath Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 (edited) I only just came across this. What an awesome project!! I love your drawing and the work you have done on it so far. Was this ever even a paper plane or is it just from the working of a fevered brain? Is the doner kit for that centre section an Airfix Blohm & Voss BV 141? actually someone I see has done an amazing and lovely looking wiffy using two of these models Do you mean this: Edited January 21, 2014 by Nigel Heath 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trickyrich Posted January 21, 2014 Author Share Posted January 21, 2014 Haha very good! Yeah that's it, I have seen that wiffy but the other one I've seen has the twin engines and a single centre pod. Looks very normal for a wiffy, a bigger and more powerful Fw-189! Oh it was just an idea from my own twisted mind, hopefully it turns out ok. The "special" weapons arrived today, will post pics on tomorrow's update! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JD tiger 1 Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Thats some impressive work should look fantastic when its done. really nice job on makinmg the central engine. The Amerika Bomber what a beast. (ashame about the over heating problems) I was thinking of doing the He 177 A-6 the kit you have but I am also thinking of the revell 1/72 Fw 200 C4 Condor which is it to be? hmmm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trickyrich Posted January 29, 2014 Author Share Posted January 29, 2014 Thats some impressive work should look fantastic when its done. really nice job on makinmg the central engine. The Amerika Bomber what a beast. (ashame about the over heating problems) I was thinking of doing the He 177 A-6 the kit you have but I am also thinking of the revell 1/72 Fw 200 C4 Condor which is it to be? hmmm. thanks for that, I am having a bit of fun with this. The Revell 177 is a nice model, though the moulds are starting to show their age a bit now, flash and such. Is the Condor a updated model or still the old one revell had out ages ago? I remember building it years ago...was an ok model. But I'm a big fan of the 177 so that would be my pick! Have you seen the drawings I did for the bigger version of this one....think it's in the chat section....else fight you way though all the stuff we wrote on the WhatIf III GB chat......even had a drawing of a "Zwilling" Sunderland! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arniec Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 (edited) Hi Rich, Nice build. I have also got a soft spot for the He-177. Take a look at the picture from my converted He-177. It is mated with another model I like. It was build 2 years ago for the SMW show in Telford. Cheers, Edited January 30, 2014 by Arniec 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Heath Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 That looks awsome Arnold, I love it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trickyrich Posted January 30, 2014 Author Share Posted January 30, 2014 Hi Rich, Nice build. I have also got a soft spot for the He-177. Take a look at the picture from my converted He-177. It is mated with another model I like. It was build 2 years ago for the SMW show in Telford. Cheers, hey Arnold I've seen that photo before, I love it, looks fantastic. Is the rear section off the dragon single or nightfighter Go-229? I gotta stop looking at stuff like this as it keeps giving me ideas for my beasties....and at this rate I'll never lock down a final design!!! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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