atvd1020 Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Hi all, I'm planning to build the Airfix Gladiator in Latvian markings using decals from Print Scale and Kora, using the swastikas from the former and the serial number/insignia from the latter. I would appreciate it if anyone could confirm what shade of olive/khaki/green was used- the Insigna Magazine monograph on Latvian Air Force aircraft and the Print Scale instructions say dark green but the Kora instructions say khaki (FS 20040). Thanks in advance for your help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Aero Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 They are also shown in Dark Green in the Mushroom publication. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Millman Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 FS 20040 is a colour that most people might describe as 'dark brown' rather than khaki but it does contain 'classic' olive drab/PC10 pigments:- Titanium dioxide (white), yellow iron oxide, monoazo red (yellow shade - effectively an orange) and carbon black. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted December 20, 2013 Share Posted December 20, 2013 Hi all, I'm planning to build the Airfix Gladiator in Latvian markings using decals from Print Scale and Kora, using the swastikas from the former and the serial number/insignia from the latter. I would appreciate it if anyone could confirm what shade of olive/khaki/green was used- the Insigna Magazine monograph on Latvian Air Force aircraft and the Print Scale instructions say dark green but the Kora instructions say khaki (FS 20040). Thanks in advance for your help. Hmm. My only experience of Kora is their lemon yellow and pixeled blue Swedish crowns in FVSS J-22 kit. Not good. But, perhaps the question you really should ask is this, were the Gladiators delivered in overall aluminium, and painted in Latvia, or were they delivered painted? If the latter, then the uppers were likely to be RAF Dark Green unless the Latvians specified a particular colour. I don't know the answer to this, but you have 3 sources say Dark Green, and one i've found to be wanting in the colour stakes saying otherwise. HTH T PS had a look on Hyperscale to see if any post on it there, jogged my memory, did not Belgian Gladiators also not have a similar scheme, so a quick search Note the same demarcation line. from here - http://latvianaviation.com/Gladiator.html which has lots of pics and may be of use. might be worth emailing them http://latvianaviation.com/en/index.php?./home.ssi has an email link at the bottom cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atvd1020 Posted December 20, 2013 Author Share Posted December 20, 2013 Troy- I had thought of emailing the Latvian Aviation website but the webmaster mentions he doesn't know what the exact shade of green was either. I will see what's known about the scheme the Gladiators were delivered in. The Pheon Models decals also suggest RAF Dark Green- if I can't find any information about the delivery schemes I will go with that Thanks to all of you who replied! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertie Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 I'm led to believe the Latvian Gladiators were delivered painted up with full markings. According to this quote: "Bearing the Latvian Air Force red swastika markings and serial numbers 114 to 126 and 163 to 175, the Gladiators were delivered by ship to Riga between August and November 1937. After testing and assembly they were formed into two squadrons for the defence of Riga and based nearby. The first, No 123 Fighter Squadron was formed in April 1938 and was commanded by Kapt Nikolajs Baloids while the second, No 124 Fighter Squadron was formed in October 1938 under the command of Kapt Janis Balodis." I think this photo of a model really captures the true shade of green: http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/rh/images/galleries/articles/149-248/4995/gallery_9975/photos_1223376843.jpg Cheers, Paul (aka Bertie) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogsbody Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 Have you looked here? http://latvianaviation.com/en/index.php?./content/airforce/LAF_Gladiator.ssi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmaas Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 The model of 166 is mine and was the result of some discussions with an ex-Latvian a number of years ago - he was in pilot training on the same airfield as the Gladiators. The color was from some paint swatches I showed him but of course, the usual caveats apply. He did emphasize that the upper wing swastikas were located symmetrically (one photo shows them covered by white disks during an air exercise) unlike the asymmetric placement on the Bulldogs. The different Flights had assigned colors that appeared on wheel hubs and spinner. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atvd1020 Posted January 2, 2014 Author Share Posted January 2, 2014 The model of 166 is mine and was the result of some discussions with an ex-Latvian a number of years ago - he was in pilot training on the same airfield as the Gladiators. The color was from some paint swatches I showed him but of course, the usual caveats apply. He did emphasize that the upper wing swastikas were located symmetrically (one photo shows them covered by white disks during an air exercise) unlike the asymmetric placement on the Bulldogs. The different Flights had assigned colors that appeared on wheel hubs and spinner. Thanks a lot for the information, I will keep it and your model in mind when painting my Gladiator. I intend to model #121, shown in the picture posted by Troy above. Do you have any further information on the rudder's colour, lighter than the green used for the rest of the plane? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Test Graham Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 The rudder is deflected, so reflecting light differently to the remainder of the aircraft. I don't think it's necessarily a different colour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atvd1020 Posted January 2, 2014 Author Share Posted January 2, 2014 The rudder is deflected, so reflecting light differently to the remainder of the aircraft. I don't think it's necessarily a different colour. Thanks for pointing that out! I checked other Gladiator photos on the Latvian Aviation site which belonged to the same squadron as #121 and their rudders appear to be the same colour as the rest of the plane too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Aero Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 This photo is a bit late to the party but it does show that the Latvian Gladiators were painted before delivery at Gloster's. The man standing by the Gladiator is Mr Fred Pollard who was head of the Dope and Fabric shop at Gloster . The photo comes via Fred's son Don and came to me via Tim Kershaw and the Jet Age Museum. John Just to refresh the "Fire Cross" is Red on White. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paolo6691 Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Great photo!! I know is a very long stretch,but do you have one showing the top wing? Cheers Paolo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Aero Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Afraid not, as I understand, this was just a family photo which was given to the jet Age Museum. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmaas Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 (edited) In case it is of use, here's a link to a compilation of Latvian Gladiator photos. The sole photo on 'page 3', by the way, shows the white discs over the red swastika used for an air exercise I mentioned earlier. Can't seem to make the link tool work so the address is http://latvianaviation.com/Gladiator.html Edited January 21, 2014 by jimmaas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Aero Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Latvian serial 114 did not have the "Fire Cross" on the top wing. Photo Gloster Putnams. This photo is on page one, left hand bottom row of the images page No1 John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denisvanb Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 About the color of latvian Gladiators : Belgian modellers told me the "khaki" color used on belgian gladiator is actually a 50-50 mix of RAF dark esrth and dark green. The belgian aircrafts were also delivered factory painted, so one may suppose the latvian ones used the same colors.. I studied the photos of the belgian Gladiators, as I am building one, and the demarcation of colors is exactly at the same place as on latvian ones. This is another clue. The belgian build Gladiators have a slightly different demarcation line, you can recognise them from that when the serial is not readable on photos... Denis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atvd1020 Posted January 27, 2014 Author Share Posted January 27, 2014 This photo is a bit late to the party but it does show that the Latvian Gladiators were painted before delivery at Gloster's. The man standing by the Gladiator is Mr Fred Pollard who was head of the Dope and Fabric shop at Gloster . The photo comes via Fred's son Don and came to me via Tim Kershaw and the Jet Age Museum. John Thanks a lot for the photo and the confirmation about the painting! About the color of latvian Gladiators : Belgian modellers told me the "khaki" color used on belgian gladiator is actually a 50-50 mix of RAF dark esrth and dark green. The belgian aircrafts were also delivered factory painted, so one may suppose the latvian ones used the same colors.. Thanks for the information, I will try the mix and see how it comes out and compares to jimmaas' model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pirats Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 Ok sorry for so late and that i put up old post. However i have made a litle reserch regarding this subject. Delivered gladiators was without swastika on top wings and with all the technial signs (1937-1938) at some point betwen in (probably august, before presentation)1938 the airplanes was repainted - white circle apiered on top wings, all the technical signs was overpainted. Also swastika appiered a litle bit bolder then on delivery planes. And yes, from few picteres (mushroom publication) i can conclude that all insignias were simetric. Also on fin tail apiered shield emblema (KAP) Also spiner and wheel disc color diferented from 1st and 2nd squadron. 1st was in polished metal/aluminium, 2nd was in green (same color as airplane). Regardin 121 (im building it) im not sure regarding fin tail color as at the time of crash (photo) it has alredy repainted. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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