AnonymousAA72 Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 OK The Swift wasn't The Hunter BUT it has been the subject of a bit of criticism on here for some reason. There also seems to be a certain amount of dismay on here as to why its important enough to warrant a brand new tooling from Airfix..................... Well, first of all - Why not? It was a mainstay of FR operations in RAFG. It was also the FIRST RAF Swept Wing fighter and the FIRST to enter service with Reheat. Those facts alone are a cause for celebration, and therefore IMHO warrant this kit! Furthermore, it wasn't the dog that many believe it was. Certainly not In the FR role where it won many awards/competitions, particularly at low level, under radar , thanks to its robustness. The type also pioneered terrain following techniques. It had relatively high endurance. By all accounts the FR5 version was very popular and despite what some may say was a very effective aircraft. ... AND I have to ask..was the Hunter F1 any better as a fighter than the Swift F1? Was the FR5 any worse in the FR role than the Hunter FR10 (OK no real need to answer that one!!) So lay off!!!! 20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plastic Bonsai Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 I don't have a problem with it: An aircraft that made it into service, wasn't always in various shades of foggy grey, what's not to like? Same applies to the Scimitar 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhaselden Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Game on!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Procopius Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Didn't its reheat, uh, not work, though? (NB I like the Swift, though.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Fully agree on the facts. And we will end (again) at the point, where we have to ask: does Airfix build kits for the ambitious modeller like us, or for the general public who don't know that much about the Swift. I am pleased that Airfix builds some nice and interesting british subjects, but still surprised about this choice. Surprised, not disappointed. They need to leave some interesting subjects for the next few years, after all. Alex 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robvulcan Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 I Have never noticed anyone having a problem with it and I certainly don't. For me the Swift is a classic and a very Important type to be Kitted. I can't wait to build them. For me any RAF aircraft is important. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robvulcan Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Looking at this I just think "whats not to like" Its just beautiful.. I wonder if the cockpit frames are separately molded or just primed... It Is also an attractive shape for whiff schemes too. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonC Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 I wonder if the cockpit frames are separately molded or just primed... It's a computer image, so probably neither! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonymousAA72 Posted December 19, 2013 Author Share Posted December 19, 2013 Didn't its reheat, uh, not work, though? (NB I like the Swift, though.) It didn't work at high level, but that didn't cause it too much of a problem in the low level FR role where it excelled....and regardless.. it was still the first RAF aircraft with Reheat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robvulcan Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 (edited) "It's a computer image, so probably neither!" Oh really... Well It fooled me... Edited December 19, 2013 by robvulcan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enzo the Magnificent Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 AND I have to ask..was the Hunter F1 any better as a fighter than the Swift F1? As with most British fighters, the earliest versions of the Hunter were little more than testbeds with guns strapped on. It took a few years for the Hunter to mature into an effective warplane. Same thing goes for the Swift... and Lightning, Harrier, Typhoon... Was the FR5 any worse in the FR role than the Hunter FR10 (OK no real need to answer that one!!) I think there is... From what I have heard, the Swift was a far more stable platform at low level than the Hunter. However, there were very few Swifts in service and maintaining a supply infrastructure for them made no economic sense, especially when there was already an established infrastructure for the Hunter which could do the same job just not quite as well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfqweofekwpeweiop4 Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 I say well done to Airfix for this one. Not exactly a priority for me but it's good to see them do a mix of things. Going through their old kits and doing new tools, like the Hurricane Mk I, Tiger Moth and Blenheim IV, then doing brand new kits of fairly popular aircraft like the Do17Z and Blenheim I, and to top it off something completely different - the Swift! If Airfix keep this up sooner or later they'll do the kits that some people are longing for ie new Beaufighter, Vulcan etc etc. People should be glad of what Airfix is at least trying to do and the fact that they will do something like a Swift might mean they do other not so mainstream aircraft too at some point. thanks Mike 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalkeEins Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 kudos to them for the 48th scale Javelin - now that was a dog! " ..Today I met a Javelin pilot and commiserated with him. Quite so, he said. We read up on Kamikazes and despaired. They had half a chance of doing some good. We knew we had none. Yet we deployed 428 Harmonious Dragmasters. Useless. There was no golden yesteryear.." that's the 'problem' as I see it - if Airfix have made it then it must have been a good 'un.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonymousAA72 Posted December 19, 2013 Author Share Posted December 19, 2013 I think there is... From what I have heard, the Swift was a far more stable platform at low level than the Hunter. However, there were very few Swifts in service and maintaining a supply infrastructure for them made no economic sense, especially when there was already an established infrastructure for the Hunter which could do the same job just not quite as well. Thats probably explains a lot of the negativity towards the Swift in many quarters. It made more economic sense to convert Hunter F6's to the FR role - especally as there were no, or very few Swift fighters to convert. And of course the Fighter was by now obsolete - according to Mr Sandys anyway!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete in Lincs Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Mmmm Swiff Whiffs.... Argentine,Australia,South Africa,Germany. Royal Navy, ETPS, USAF Trial airframe, New Zealand, Turkey, Egypt, and more All could have been viable customers. Game on! Pete 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albeback52 Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 OK The Swift wasn't The Hunter BUT it has been the subject of a bit of criticism on here for some reason. There also seems to be a certain amount of dismay on here as to why its important enough to warrant a brand new tooling from Airfix..................... I don't know if dismay is the right word Bill. I think perhaps "surprise" might be more appropriate. I'm sure every one of us has our own ideas of "more deserving" subjects but, how does one define "more deserving" anyway? It's surely ( like beauty) in the eye of the beholder? I WAS very surprised at the choice. There are of course things I would give priority to over the Swift but, I also think it is a bold choice and, I'm sure Airfix have done their sums on this and are banking that sales (in the UK at least) will be healthy enough to justify it. If I was "dismayed" about any of the Airfix releases for 2014 it was the that the Halifax was still the same tired old relic from 1961!! True, it is relatively obscure, had a short service life and was not built in large numbers. But then, could the same not also be said for the Scimitar? Yet, there are many on here who are yearning for the latter. There is a place for both. I confess to mixed feelings myself about this choice of subject but, I will buy several and, I hope it does well so that Airfix will be encouraged to produce more UK Cold War types (including the Scimitar!! ), Allan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisrope Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 I like the Swift and i'll buy one when i've built my Xtrakit FR.5. If Airfix had given us the Beaufighters, VC-10, Phantoms, early Lightnings and whatever else we were all crying out for, there would be some people disappointed because Airfix didn't give us a nice new Swift. I wanted a new Buccaneer and we didn't get it. However, one day it will, as will the others Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robvulcan Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Mmmm Swiff Whiffs.... Argentine,Australia,South Africa,Germany. Royal Navy, ETPS, USAF Trial airframe, New Zealand, Turkey, Egypt, and more All could have been viable customers. Game on! Pete It would also be nice to see later RAF schemes Like wrap around anything looks good in that scheme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Read "Swift Justice," by Nigel Walpole; it's quite enlightening. I know that some of the "anti" emotion was engendered by the feeling that Supermarine cheated by going to Libya's heat, to get the World Speed Record. Edgar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enzo the Magnificent Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 I like the Swift and i'll buy one when i've built my Xtrakit FR.5. I think I'll be getting rid of my Xtrakit Swift. I wanted a new Buccaneer and we didn't get it. However, one day it will, as will the others Ohhhhhh... A 1/72 Buccaneer to the current Airfix Standard would be a joy to behold! And let's face it, no one else is going to do one. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caerbannog Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Well I am quite happy with the new tool 1:72 Swift. It is not my scale but... The 1:72 new tool Gnat will be released in 1:48 next year - so maybe the Swift too :-D And a 1:48 Tiger Moth of course. Rene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisrope Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Ohhhhhh... A 1/72 Buccaneer to the current Airfix Standard would be a joy to behold! And let's face it, no one else is going to do one. It will be a joyous day, I would sell large chunks of the stash to fund a Bucc habit ( I have started the Airfix/Matchbox cross-kit, just bogged down with rescribing ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driver66 Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 I built the xtrakit swift, thought it was a great kit with lovely surface detail, also built an xtrakit canberra PR9, when the airfix kit was released, purchased one but then sold it on evil bay, it was inferior to the extrakit one IMHO. So think the bar is already high , sure airfix will beat it this time but due to the lack of variety in swift 5 schemes doubt I'll buy one. A bold move though. Like many would rather see a 1/72 scimitar ( or buccaneer or sea vixen ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Jones Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Let's not forget the Swift F7, in this airframe and missle combination we had probably one of the most effective weapons system of its day, yet only a handful were built,used for trials and the aircraft and the Fairey Fireflash missle were discarded afterwards. The Swift in its F7 variant had "the bugs" ironed out and was a very potent fighter. Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Being anashamedly guilty of having criticised the Swift design in another thread, I feel I have to add my opinion into the lot ! First of all, we have to separate the real from the model ! And starting from the model, I see no problem in Airfix doing a Swift, on the contrary ! There already is a very good mainstream Hunter on the market, now I can add a couple of Swifts to my old Hawk kit. I like the Swift as a subject, and I'm glad to see this appearing from Airfix, as I wrote in another couple of threads here. Besides, I can't see why the importance of a subject should make this worth or not of being reproduced in plastic. We've had kits of some very rare types, why not one that in the end was operational for a number of years in the RAF. So bring on the Swift, and I hope that in the future we'll see some more types from the '50s, like the Venom or the Scimitar. And please Airfix, don't forget to scale down the Javelin and the Sea Vixen Now for the real thing: yes, the type found a niche in the low level FR role, but we should not forget that the Swift was designed as a fighter and in the fighter role it was totally unsuited. Not only it was not suited to the role, the worse thing was that the Swift entered service in 1954 and was found to be inferior to the F-86, a type that had entered sevice 5 years before ! That same year the USAF started to receive the F-100 Super Sabre, showing, if this was not already clear, how the UK was lagging behind the USA in the development of high performance jet aircrafts. The design group that before the war had designed one of the best fighters of all times was now not capable of producing an aircraft superior to types that were supposed to be from half a generation earlier. Quite a change.... Was the Hunter better than the Swift as a fighter ? It sure was and when the US representatives analysed the two types to verify their suitability for use by the NATO countries (we should not forget that many Hunters were bought with US money), they found the Swift unsuitable but praised the Hunter. Was the Hunter F.1 a combat ready type ? No, it was not. But it just needed some issues to be ironed out while for the Swift there was little hope in the fighter role. The FR career of the Swift: Nigel Walpole's "Swift Justice" has done a lot to rehabilitate the Swift capabilites in the low level FR role. However reading the book it can be seen as the Swift was not an easy aircraft anyway. It was also shining against some types that were not really the best ever made: while the FR-84F was built in good numbers, it was never a thoroughbred and its main good point was its availability in large numbers at the right time. And part of the Swift superiority laid in the use of superior cameras (the F.95). In the end the Republic type lasted for many years in a number of air forces while the Swift served for only 5 years. To summarise: is the Swift worth of a new tool mainstream kit ? Yes, yes, yes ! Was the Swift a good design ? Sorry, it was not Of course the above are just my opinions, built over reading a number of books and looking at the bigger picture of the Swift within the contest of the development of aviation in those years 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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