Gunze Mix for British Cockpit Grey-Green?

[Navy Bird]

Anyone know of a good recipe for mixing a brew of British Cockpit Grey Green (or whatever it is officially called, I can never remember!) using Gunze Aqueous acrylics?

I normally use Model Master RAF Interior Green but I really hate that paint. I have a new bottle of Tamiya XF71 Cockpit Green, but I'm thinking this is for Japanese aircraft maybe?

Cheers,

Bill

[Edgar]

Sorry, no idea of a formula, but, having bought a bottle of XF-71, I'd ignore the paint inside, and mix a colour somewhere closer to the colour of the cap.

Edgar

[Navy Bird]

Sorry, no idea of a formula, but, having bought a bottle of XF-71, I'd ignore the paint inside, and mix a colour somewhere closer to the colour of the cap.

Edgar

Interesting idea! Thanks for that tip, Edgar. I'm curious now how close the Tamiya cap is to the Model Master colour. Gunze makes the cockpit green colour, but it's available only in one of their sets, which are next to impossible to get here in the states.

Cheers,

Bill

[Chuck1945]

Tamiya XF-71 is a much darker green than the bottle lid would indicate. I don't use Model Master paint so no clue what MM British Interior Grey-Green looks like when applied. I have used PollyScale instead, now OOP, and it is not as dark as XF-71. In fact, Tamiya XF-76 Gray Green(IJN) is much closer to the PollyScale color RAF Interior Grey-Green (but XF-76 also doesn't match the lid very well) than XF-71. I should note however that the PollyScale color doesn't quite match the example in the RAFM booklet/color (PollyScale is lighter) chart but I have been using it (PollyScale) for so long that it just seems 'right' to me

Edited December 18, 2013 by Chuck1945

[Navy Bird]

Interestingly enough, XF-76 is pretty close to the colour of the XF-71 cap!

Model Master RAF Interior Green is darker than XF-76, and "greener." XF-76 has more grey and yellow in it, I think. I need to get some actual colour chips so I know what I'm aiming at - anyone know of a source for that? Or perhaps there is an FS value that is close?

Cheers,

Bill

[John Laidlaw]

According to IPMS Stockholm (http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/colorcharts/stuff_eng_colorcharts_uk.htm), there are a few FS matches. To me, FS:34226 looks closest, but this is entirely subjective. I understand your not liking the Model Master paint, but for this small part, maybe it's worth gritting the teeth and using it? It's a very good match.

Anyway, good luck!

[Navy Bird]

According to IPMS Stockholm (http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/colorcharts/stuff_eng_colorcharts_uk.htm), there are a few FS matches. To me, FS:34226 looks closest, but this is entirely subjective. I understand your not liking the Model Master paint, but for this small part, maybe it's worth gritting the teeth and using it? It's a very good match.

Anyway, good luck!

Thanks. My bottle of MM RAF Interior Green has turned into a gelatinous mire of muck and the LHS is out of stock. Testor's thinner isn't able to reconstitute it. I'll have a go at mixing some Gunze and see if I can match it.

Cheers,

Bill

[John Laidlaw]

Try mixing it with Future - although (assuming it works) you'll end up with a gloss finish, it brushes well, aand washes flow properly.

Good luck with the Gunze.

[Navy Bird]

Hi mates,

I've mixed up a batch of Gunze British cockpit colour. I started out trying to keep track of ratios, but that always rapidly disappears once I start trying things. I can tell you that the ingredients were H41 Pale Green, H48 Field Grey 2, H312 Green FS34227, and H322 Phthalo Cyanine Blue. The first three maybe in equal portions, and the last just a few drops. I ended up with two full Gunze bottles' worth. I thought I could just use H41 and H48, but I couldn't get it both dark enough and green enough. Hence the H312, which did both but left it just a tad too yellow. The H322 brought it back to a nice grey green. I probably should have used something other than H312, something more of a pure green like H26.

Brushing some of my mixture onto an old Revell Hurricane cockpit that had been sprayed with MM RAF Interior Green showed a very good match after it dried. So I'm happy, I guess, as long as the MM colour is a good match to begin with.

John, I'll give Future a try but I suspect this old bottle of MM is not salvageable. It looks like the blob that ate Cincinnati.

I'll give the new mix a try on the Skua that I've just started. Keep on the lookout for a new WIP thread.

Cheers,

Bill

[John Laidlaw]

Cincinnati's gone???

Glad to hear you've got it. The MM colour really is a good match, so if you're happy, it's good. Future really works best when the MM is not yet at the blob stage, but really, it's acting as a thinner - the older the paint, the vaguer the coverage .

Looking forward to the WIP.

[Dave Gibson]

Hi mates,

I've mixed up a batch of Gunze British cockpit colour. I started out trying to keep track of ratios, but that always rapidly disappears once I start trying things. I can tell you that the ingredients were H41 Pale Green, H48 Field Grey 2, H312 Green FS34227, and H322 Phthalo Cyanine Blue. The first three maybe in equal portions, and the last just a few drops. I ended up with two full Gunze bottles' worth. I thought I could just use H41 and H48, but I couldn't get it both dark enough and green enough. Hence the H312, which did both but left it just a tad too yellow. The H322 brought it back to a nice grey green. I probably should have used something other than H312, something more of a pure green like H26.

Brushing some of my mixture onto an old Revell Hurricane cockpit that had been sprayed with MM RAF Interior Green showed a very good match after it dried. So I'm happy, I guess, as long as the MM colour is a good match to begin with.

John, I'll give Future a try but I suspect this old bottle of MM is not salvageable. It looks like the blob that ate Cincinnati.

I'll give the new mix a try on the Skua that I've just started. Keep on the lookout for a new WIP thread.

Cheers,

Bill

Hi Bill,

Eduard are recommending H312 by itself for cockpits. How would that compare with the MM shade when dry?

Dave

[Navy Bird]

Hi Bill,

Eduard are recommending H312 by itself for cockpits. How would that compare with the MM shade when dry?

Dave

Not that close, I'm afraid. H312 FS34227 is the green used in the Israeli desert camouflage typical of their old Phantoms (not the green seen in the similar camouflage today). H312 has no significant "grey" component that I can see, and quite a bit of yellow (which is why I ended up adding several drops of the dark blue to my mix).

I'm not saying that H312 is not a good match for the actual British cockpit colour. I have no way of knowing. But it is not, in my opinion, a good match for Model Master RAF Interior Green.

I'd paint some swatches and post a picture, but my MM paint has turned to rubber. I did a test with my mix on an old Hurricane cockpit that was painted with MM, and when brushed (i.e. a hard line between the colours) you can see a slight difference between them if you look hard enough. Airbrushed with a soft edge and it's almost impossible to tell them apart. Interestingly enough, they look most alike when there is a flat varnish; in gloss form they look a little different.

As others have mentioned, the FS number that is stated as the closest equivalent to the British cockpit colour is 34226. But just because it and 34227 are so close in number, doesn't mean they're close in colour. This online simulation is interesting:

http://colorserver.net/showcolor.asp?fs=34227+34226

The top colour, 34227 is what H312 represents and on my monitor it looks reasonably close. The bottom colour is 34226, and it is also reasonably close to my bottle of MM RAF Interior Green. (Neither are perfect of course!) I think you can see that there is a big difference. If Nick Millman surfs by, he can add a lot more than I can about how these colours differ. He can also tell you why you see a difference gloss vs. flat.

Cheers,

Bill