II(AC) Sqn go Typhoon...

[spike7451]

I see the Kodak Kids are going Typhoon....

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-typhoon-squadron-announced

The move is part of a transformation of the RAF’s combat air capability which will see battle-proven Tornado GR4 aircraft replaced by advanced Typhoon and F-35B Lightning II fighters.

Number 2 (Army Co-operation) Squadron , based at RAF Marham, celebrated 100 years of service in 2012 and its personnel are currently training for their next tour of duty early next year flying Tornado jets in Afghanistan.

After that, the unit will begin the process of swapping its Tornados for Eurofighter Typhoons and transfer to its new base at RAF Lossiemouth .

The move was announced by the Minister of State for the Armed Forces, Mark Francois, who said the change was part of the planned realignment of the RAF’s long-serving Tornado Force, under which all GR4s will leave the service by 2019.

Edited December 13, 2013 by spike7451

[Dave Fleming]

So this means that THREE Tornado units are disbanding - 12 and 617, next year, and II the year after.

Wonder if we'll ever see 12 again - or have they got a reprieve?

Edited December 13, 2013 by Dave Fleming

[spike7451]

So does this mean that THREE Tornado units are disbanding - II, 12 and 617, with 12 just disappearing? Or do 12 get a repreive?

As far as I've heard the's nothing on the cards for 12 as yet.

[Dave Fleming]

http://www.e-goat.co.uk/forums/archive/index.php/t-41252.html

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234947896-no12-typhoon-squadron/

Looks like XV107 was right a susual

As I've observed before, the complicating factor may be 2 Squadron, which is the RAF's most senior unit. If it appears to the Air Force Board that the RAF is unlikely to form a second RAF-numberplated F-35 squadron for some time after the withdrawal of the GR4, then I suspect that they will rejig things to re-equip 2 with the Typhoon so as to ensure its continued existence. Even allowing for the doom and gloom about the F-35, though, I suspect that at some point in the next four or five years, we'll have the announcement that another batch of F-35s is to be bought, and some of these will go to replace the GR4 with 2 Sqn.

I do wonder if 12 has been reprieved as nothing official has been said yet

Edited December 13, 2013 by Dave Fleming

[XV107]

I suspect that this may simply be an effort to save a bit of extra cash to keep Sentinel and perhaps buy a Multi-Mission Aircraft (i.e. an MPA but not necessarily the P-8) in 2015 by reducing the TGR4 force by one squadron a bit sooner than planned. It may also be a sign that the Saudi push to get Storm Shadow onto Typhoon will mean that the RAF will be able to field it earlier (NETMA partners are a bit 'whatever' when the RAF wants to add capability early, but as soon as the Saudis turn up waving cash saying 'we want this, this, this and this on the aircraft straight away, or we'll just ask Dassault if they can meet our needs', they are suddenly a bit more pro-active. Odd, that...). That allows a quicker draw-down of the GR4 force since it ceases to be the only fleet capable of fielding the weapon and the GR4 then, in effect, fills the gap while we wait for the F-35 (I suspect within a decade I'll be typing 'LFG1 force'...) to hit IOC and FOC.

It means that Marham will be left with IX and 31, giving room to carry out any building work needed to accommodate 617 and 809. My guess would be that dependent upon the F-35 buy and whether or not we keep the Tranche 1 Typhoons (at the moment, I suspect not, but if we do, it means that two extra squadrons will form using Tranche 2 and 3 airframes), we'll end up with a fast jet force of 1, II(AC), 3, 6, 11 on Typhoon [plus 29 and 41] and 617, 809, IX and one or two others on F-35 (dependent upon whether 809 is the OCU numberplate, as originally stated and the inter-service politics as to whether a SHAR plate is recycled). 12 might be in with a shot there, or as an extra Reaper squadron.

[dambuster]

... we'll end up with a fast jet force of 1, II(AC), 3, 6, 11 on Typhoon [plus 29 and 41] and 617, 809, IX and one or two others on F-35 .

Is that all?!!! Is that even enough for one of Bader's Big Wings?

Peter

[Richard E]

Perhaps going off at a slight tangent - since 55 (Reserve) squadron's retirement is the RAF still training Weapons Systems Operators overseas or is there a sufficiently large pool of WSOs within the current Tornado GR4 force to fill the aircraft's back seats until the type is completely withdrawn from service in 20nn ?

Edited December 14, 2013 by Richard E

[spike7451]

Well,a mate was told March 31st 2014,they stand down with Tonka & start up on the Tiff the next day....

[HammerUK9]

Perhaps going off at a slight tangent - since 55 (Reserve) squadron's retirement is the RAF still training Weapons Systems Operators overseas or is there a sufficiently large pool of WSOs within the current Tornado GR4 force to fill the aircraft's back seats until the type is completely withdrawn from service in 20nn ?

Well they permanently closed the WSO branch to new recruits about 3-4 years ago now (or so I'm led to believe), so there are unlikely to be any remaining in the training pipeline.

Tim

[tonyot]

Surely if 809 NAS is to be the OCU for the Lightning FGA.1 (there I`ve said it,..I hate F-35!) then there has to be at least one more naval air sqn equipped with the type, after all it is to form the air group for the new `ROYAL NAVY' carriers? 800 or 892 NAS`s must be prime numbers for another Fleet Air Arm fast jet unit? What other navy in the world has a carrier air group comprising `any' air force fast jet units' never mind `wholly' comprising of air force units,......... the Royal Navy used to be such a proud service!

Don`t get me wrong,... I`ll be sad to see 12 Sqn go and I`m glad that II (AC) Sqn will reform on the Tiffie,

Cheers

Tony

[XV107]

It's not clear, Tony.

The FAA throughput of pilots for the Lightning, as currently envisaged, is rather low (we're talking single figures per year) and it isn't yet clear whether the RN/RAF split in terms of personnel is going to be achievable on the RN side - which is rather ironic, since the split is more 'favourable' (i.e. a larger percentage of the pilots should wear dark blue) toward the FAA than the infamous Newton Report suggested, and this at the behest of the last CAS (I have no doubt that within a year we'll be reading about how this was an evil crustacean plot, probably on a certain SHAR mate's blog. As far as I can ascertain - which isn't saying much - it wasn't...).

I suspect that the numberplates will reflect the split in personnel between dark and light blue, either as envisaged, or as a reflection of reality as it emerges.

We also have to ponder the possibility that the FJ force overall will increase - not by much, but possibly by one or at most two Lightning squadrons - when/if the economy picks up. That might, in fact, mean a whopping great 16 additional aircraft, but such a step would offer the chance of extra numberplates appearing. I don't think that there are that many politicians with significant clout from either side of the divide (but let's not get political) who see the projected fast jet force for the 2015-2020 period as being big enough and I have a sense - for reasons I hope you'll forgive me not going into - that if there is a chance to have one or two extra squadrons appear, this'll happen in time. But that, of course, is a fairly large 'if'...

[Paolo6691]

Interesting news, I will be very curious to see how they will carry their markings.

Black bars and triangles on the fusolage, and wake not in the shield? Raf roundel background in the shield?

Anybody quick with photoshop can bring out a what if?

Cheers

Paolo