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ShadowRaider

Modern RN flight deck vehicles - what colour?

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Hello all,

Sorry for posting this in the aircraft-related forum, but since the subject in question is definitely not AFV....

Does anybody know what is the correct colour for modern Royal Navy flight deck vehicles?

I mean the flight deck tractors that currently operate on carrier fligher decks (like the one on this photo http://www.britmodeller.com/walkarounds/maritime/lusty/l12.jpg).

Other flight deck vehicles like crash cranes or loaders (http://www.britmodeller.com/walkarounds/maritime/lusty/l10.jpg) are apparently painted the same.

I can see that the colour is dark green :), but would be immensely thankful for an exact FS number!

Alex

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I don't think even the Navy know what the correct colour is! I would start with Tamiya XF-61 Dark Green or XF-58 Olive Green and wash/post shade/dry brush to the required eyeball colour. (The Royal Navy don't use FS colours anyway!)

Not the answer you were looking for, but what the hell, get modelling! :lol:

Al

EDIT: I've reposted this in the Modern Maritime section, hopefully one of the experts will be more helpful :winkgrin:

Edited by PHaTNesS

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BS381C 238 Olive Green according to the Airframe Vickers Carrier Deck Tractor instructions

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Thanks a lot guys!

However.... Could it be so that the colour of those flight deck vehicles is the same as the colour of the various more or less combat vehicles employed by the Royal Marines? What do you think?

I guess the Royal Marines' colour name / standard should not be a secret... at least not to the AFV modelling crowd.

Alex

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Hi Alex,

the true colour of those vehicles is only for the time that they left the factory (which could have been yellow at the time). The extremes of weather, salt erosion and general wear and tear meant that the original paintwork soon got chipped or abraded off and were constantly having repaints. Where patches of rust or fouling appeared this would be scraped down, re-primered and then repainted in a standard green and only in the area on the tractor that needed it; this meant that the tractor could have a few patches of differing colour green. The paint would have been a general NATO green (there are quite a few shades of NATO green and not always the same tin would be used to repaint them).

If you look closely at your first photo link you will see that the tractor has been (re)painted in at least two different shades of green. Also, you can see signs of rust and corrosion bubbling up under the surface, especially on the corners and along the top bar. Add to this all the heavy greases used around the towing bolts, which leaves a range of colours from black and grey through to an off-white in areas, and you end up with a hotch-potch of different colours all around the vehicle. Check out the areas where constant use of the tie-down chains have scraped off all the paint and left either bare or rusty surfaces.

The JCB lift in the other photo has a civilian factory painted finish and is a non-NATO standard colour. Probably won't stay that colour for very long.

The main point here is that these vehicles are heavy use, all weather trucks and do not need to be kept pristine as is required of an aircraft such as the Harrier or a Sea King etc. I would not expect to see a model of such a vehicle in factory fresh colours if depicting an on-board scenario.

HTH

Mike

HMS Bulwark 1968

HMS Albion 1970-72 (848 Sqn)

HMS Hermes 1974-76 (845 Sqn)

HMS Intrepid 1980-81

3 Commando Air Sqn 1984-88

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I built the Airframe 48 kit a couple of years back, think I just used Tamiya Dark Green XF61 with some oil and a bit of weathering

I don't think the Airframe kit is aroud any more but F4Models do one, I havn't built that one but I have built their light and heavy tractors, if their Vickers tractors is anything like these, they'll be good!!

May be of help...!

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Dear Mike,

Thank you very much for a most comprehensive answer!!!

I will surely use it when building a model myself. Very helfpul!

However, at the moment I have a case that is a little bit different - and which, I admit, I have not explained in my first message.

I am not only building model kits but producing them as well. At the moment I am working on a modern Royal Navy flight deck tractor kit (based on this one http://f4models.blogspot.ru/2013/11/royal-navy-1970s-flight-deck-tractor.html), and when issued it will have to be supplied with some brief recommendations in regards to its paining.

What colour do I list on the instruction manual for the modelers to use as a base coat before applying their own weathering techniques?

Should it be the color mentioned by Geoff earlier (BS381C 238)? I wonder, because I've never seen such type of color code "structure" before...

Or do we just write "NATO Green" and let the modeler decide which is the right code for it?...

PS: one more photo where the colour of the tractor can be seen to good advantage: http://s429.photobucket.com/user/coconutbanjo/media/apbucket2.jpg.html

Alex

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Neither of those vehicles are particularly modern. The type in the F4 Models link were only ever painted yellow and I'm pretty sure they had been replaced by the vehicle in the bottom link by the time of the Falklands conflict in 1982. Even these were still painted yellow when they headed South during April 1982. The old Vickers tractors have recently been replaced by a version of the Schopf as shown here....

9377142425_8fae0eb833_c.jpg

9377142549_cd4344c101_c.jpg

I have always found Xtracolour BS241 (RAF Dark Green) or BS285 (NATO Green) a good match with modern UK Ground Equipment.

Edited by Evalman

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Thanks evalman!

By saying "modern" I only imply "still in service as of today", nothing more. And I am only talking about flight deck vehicles; airfield ground equimpent is not my concern at this moment.

>> These old Vickers tractors have recently been replaced by a version of the Schopf.

Is it indeed so? Replaced on HMS Ocean and HMS Illustrious?.....

Alex

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The Schopf is the new RN Deck Tractor. The photographs were taken at RNAS Culdrose Air Day this year and I was told by one of the Aircraft Handlers that they had replaced the old Vickers deck tractors that you are producing; there were certainly none left at the School of Aircraft Handling. I have yet to see any photos of them on board Ocean or Lusty but the chap told me that 'All' the Vickers tractors had been retired. I guess we can look forward to seeing these Shopfs on the deck of the new carriers in years to come.

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I am happy to be corrected but, if memory serves me correctly, the stock number on the tins of paint for the vehicles, including the ship's land rovers etc., was a NATO stock number.

These numbers usually started with 99 as in 'Paint. Green. 99-xxx-xxxx' or something to that effect. As already mentioned, these ground vehicles didn't have FS numbers

It sounds very interesting that you are producing kits of these vehicles as it is a good subject for modellers to enhance their aircraft displays accordingly. The old deck tractors could be used for fixed wing and rotary wing aircraft onboard ships however, if the Schopf is only just coming into service on the carriers/LPH's then it would probably only be appropriate for rotary wing stuff; Sea King, Merlin and Lynx dioramas.

cheers

Mike

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Evalman:

Thank you very much for your information regarding the new flight deck tractors. I did not know about the change.

Now, armed with this knowledge, I found a photographic proof for this: http://www.google.com/hostednews/getty/article/ALeqM5jZeLQ-33AMUMsugM-8rlg4-b12Aw?docId=168585538

Mike:

Thanks a lot!

However, producing a kit of this new Schopf tractor is not on my project plan.

Alex

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Thanks a lot!

However, producing a kit of this new Schopf tractor is not on my project plan.

Alex

Ahh come on, you know you wanna...

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the prefix '99' refers to any uk produced item with an nsn number, all lynx parts have '99' in the middle of their section/reference numbers i.e 26lx-99-6290898.

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Hi Alex,

the true colour of those vehicles is only for the time that they left the factory (which could have been yellow at the time). The extremes of weather, salt erosion and general wear and tear meant that the original paintwork soon got chipped or abraded off and were constantly having repaints. Where patches of rust or fouling appeared this would be scraped down, re-primered and then repainted in a standard green and only in the area on the tractor that needed it; this meant that the tractor could have a few patches of differing colour green. The paint would have been a general NATO green (there are quite a few shades of NATO green and not always the same tin would be used to repaint them).

If you look closely at your first photo link you will see that the tractor has been (re)painted in at least two different shades of green. Also, you can see signs of rust and corrosion bubbling up under the surface, especially on the corners and along the top bar. Add to this all the heavy greases used around the towing bolts, which leaves a range of colours from black and grey through to an off-white in areas, and you end up with a hotch-potch of different colours all around the vehicle. Check out the areas where constant use of the tie-down chains have scraped off all the paint and left either bare or rusty surfaces.

The JCB lift in the other photo has a civilian factory painted finish and is a non-NATO standard colour. Probably won't stay that colour for very long.

The main point here is that these vehicles are heavy use, all weather trucks and do not need to be kept pristine as is required of an aircraft such as the Harrier or a Sea King etc. I would not expect to see a model of such a vehicle in factory fresh colours if depicting an on-board scenario.

HTH

Mike

HMS Bulwark 1968

HMS Albion 1970-72 (848 Sqn)

HMS Hermes 1974-76 (845 Sqn)

HMS Intrepid 1980-81

3 Commando Air Sqn 1984-88

Mike has this summed up very well and is right in what he says.

Years of neglect on deck rot the most well looked after machines, the Coles crane carried on the Invinc used to be painted ever month just to stop it rotting away as it was stowed in the graveyard (fwd of the Island) I even got pinged to grease the internal arm as a punishment for being back late from a run ashore, bad enough but try doing that in a Force 5, never did like Alton Tower rides.

the Woo.

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To Wafu:

Thanks a lot for your information!

Since it appears that you have been around the actual vehicles at some point, may I ask a technical question, not a modelling one?...

There is a hose reel on the rear end of the tractor (with the hose usually being bright blue or yellow). Consequently, one can presume that there is a tank with some liquid somewhere inside the tractor's body. Do you happen to know the purpose of that system?

Is it a fire fighting agent of sorts (in addition to that stored in the bright red tank on the front left fender), or water for washing the decks, or something else entirely?

As for painting the model, I have settled for a rather plain and basic approach. I'm afraid that my paiting and weathering skills are not up to the task yet. So let us assume that my model shows a recently repainted tractor.

IMG_7554es.jpg

IMG_7556es.jpg

IMG_7557es.jpg

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Regardless of colour it looks pretty good to me. As you know, there cannot be a definitive colour for 'anything' as sun fade, weathering, wear & tear effect each bit of paint on a vehicle differently.

As to the pipe at the back I reckon (on the basis of what I've learned over the years and not from experience - please take it or leave it) the large red tank adjacent to the driver's position is for fire-fighting and the rear pipe is for demin water - hence the blue pipework. I would suggest the tank for this is the large 'slab' above the rear wheels. Perhaps the content level device is the vertical pipe shown centrally on the rear of the tug on pic 3 above.

NB. Your model looks absolutely fab and I'll definitely be ordering one. So no plans to do a modern Schopfe one...

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Oooh that looks superb, and its another one to add to the list to go with the earlier 70s version due out soon

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Hi,

Rich is correct in his last post.

The FDT's we had on the Invinc did not have the fire bottle on the left front wing but the hose at the back was for the Harrier's Demin water. the hose could either be an off cream cover or when new a blue colour. the long 'bar' is the demin water level with a pea indicator in a long glass rod enclosed with a metal protector.

The RN seems to be phasing these out in favour of the new deck tractors shown above. those shots are from Culdrose 750 Sqdn line during airday 2013. I could not have been 50 yards from the guy taking them, the pan was covered in spotters.

I have put a few phots to show how accurate you are in your build.

Shame the only 48th kit is OOP, could I temp you into doing a 48th scale one???? IMG_0543.jpg

IMG_0546.jpg

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To rich2010, Geoff, Wafu:

gentlemen, thank you very much for your kind words regarding my model as well for your technical information.

As for producing other model kits, regardless of the type or the scale... I am sorry, but I don't feel like making promises I won't be able to keep.

Due to a number of reasons (I would not bother you with listing them...) I do not think I will be releasing many new kits in the near future. I am not saying that I am totally quitting this business; I just need to take a break to deal with a number of other issues as well as to reassess the viability of this whole model kit production affair.

Alex

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To Caleb:

Thank you, but what you are referring to is an entirely different type of flight deck tractor.

The earlier replies in this thread contain a very comprehensive insight into what the colour of the 1990s-2000s flight deck tractor should be.

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