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Yugoslav Hurricanes - recommended schemes?


Test Graham

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I was slightly worried about being branded a necromancer (why I don'tknow - never been bothered before!) but this is SO useful. I've got a bit of a wild hair about the RYAF suddenly so this thread was an absolute gift!

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In 1938 Yugoslavia ordered 12 Hurricanes Mk.I (Merlin II, two bladed Watts propeller, fabric wings).

First two delivered in december 1938 and rest in april 1939. Only two first delivered Hurricanes had venturi tubes.

All in standard RAF camouflage Dark Earth/Dark Green scheme "A" and "B" with silver under surfaces, markings on all four positions on wings. Large white numbers I-XII on fuselage.

Later all equipped with 3 bladed De Havilland propeller.

Hurricane No.2301 (first delivered Hurricane) in 1941 equipped with DB.601 to serve as prototype for future Rogozarski 24 licence build Hurricanes.

In 1940 second order for 12 Hurricanes (Merlin lll, 3 bladed De Havilland propeller, metal wings).

All in standard RAF camouflage Dark Earth/Dark Green scheme "A" and "B", silver under surfaces with one wing in black while other in white. Markings on all four positions on wings.

In 1940 order for 48 licence build Hurricanes (Merlin lll, 3 bladed De Havilland propeller, fabric wings).

24 to be build by Zmaj and 24 to be build by Rogozarski.

Only 24 by Zmaj were build and delivered while there was no more Merlin lll engines available for Rogozarski Hurricanes. Instead for Merlin lll those should be equipped with DB.601 engines. About 80-90% of parts, fuselages, wings were build before German attack on Yugoslavia and all destroyed by factory workers to prevent failing in German hands.

All licence build Hurricanes had 3 tone upper camouflage with light blue grey under surfaces. Only two markings on wings (one large, one small) with narrow blue-white-red state flag.

.

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On 12/10/2013 at 5:56 PM, dragonlanceHR said:

Claus,

download this free Serbian scale modelers magazine called Maketar Plus

http://www.ipmssrbija.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/MAKETAR-PLUS-01.pdf

There is a build article of the 1/72 Azur-FRROM IK-3 kit, with Revell color references. All paints have a glossy finish - the paint were glossy and the aircraft were polished and well cared for.

 

 

Hello,

 

I am the author of the IK-3 model in the mentioned magazine, and I feel the need to clarify some things:

Firstly, my color observations are given as my own opinion based on multiple sources, with wildly differing color call-outs. I cannot confirm they are correct, as there are no preserved camouflaged relics of this fighter, nor color photos preserved. Some of the info I have enclosed in the article was put on doubt by some local historians.

As for the color glossiness and high polish, this implies to the IK-3, but I'm not sure about Yugoslav Hurris.

The topic on VVKJ colors is a bit complicated, as Yugoslavia imported aircraft from Great Britain, France, Italy, Germany, Czechoslovakia, Poland, as well as producing indigenous designs. Sometimes they retained their factory camouflage from these countries, sometimes they were over-painted.

The official standards were pretty vague, stating for example in 1940 only that "aircraft should be camouflaged green, brown and ochre on the upper surfaces"
Which green, brown and ochre? What about lower surfaces?
The situation is further complicated that some factories here used paints hand-mixed on the spot, so there were slight differences even between aircraft of the same production batch!
 
In relation to the Hurricanes used by the VVKJ, two schemes are currently confirmed - the standard RAF Dark Green / Dark Earth scheme with varying undersides (Sky, Black-White, Silver, etc), and the "official wartime" scheme consisting of Dark green, Ochre and Dark brown on the upper surfaces. No matter which shades you choose, if your collection has, e.g. A VVKJ Hurricane, Blenheim, Do-17K and an IK-3 - the colors on each aircraft should differ slightly!
This is due to different factories ordering from different paint manufacturers (in most cases the nearest one).
 
Sorry for further confusing an already obscure subject.
Regards,
Aleksandar
Edited by warhawk
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Hello, I am the author of the IK-3 model in the mentioned magazine, and I feel the need to clarify some things:

In relation to the Hurricanes used by the VVKJ, two schemes are currently confirmed - the standard RAF Dark Green / Dark Earth scheme with varying undersides (Sky, Black-White, Silver, etc), and the "official" prewar scheme consisting of Dark green, Ochre and Dark brown on the upper surfaces. No matter which shades you choose, if your collection has, e.g. A VVKJ Hurricane, Blenheim, Do-17K and an IK-3 - the colors on each aircraft should differ slightly!
This is due to different factories ordering from different paint manufacturers (in most cases the nearest one).
Sorry for further confusing an already obscure subject.
Regards,
Aleksandar

Please accept my sincere thanks for your work. I am very glad of your input, and as for none of the colour shades matching, I can manage that! :D

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Hello, I am the author of the IK-3 model in the mentioned magazine, and I feel the need to clarify some things:

In relation to the Hurricanes used by the VVKJ, two schemes are currently confirmed - the standard RAF Dark Green / Dark Earth scheme with varying undersides (Sky, Black-White, Silver, etc), and the "official wartime" scheme consisting of Dark green, Ochre and Dark brown on the upper surfaces. No matter which shades you choose, if ...
Sorry for further confusing an already obscure subject.
Regards,
Aleksandar

Just want to clear this SKY undersides confusion, all British built Hurricanes for Yugoslavia were delivered till the March 1940. and Sky undersides on RAF Hurricanes appeared in may / jun 1940, so, no SKY undersides painted Yugoslav Hurricanes.

They are Silver or black/white for British built or Light Blue Gray ( in range FS 25352-25526 ) for ZMAJ license built Hurricanes.

Note, all painted surfaces are semigloss.

SKY paint on RYAF planes myth was probably generated by this site/author brainstorming, published long time ago (2008).

http://www.letletlet-warplanes.com/2008/05/27/camouflage-and-markings-of-yugoslav-kingdom-warplanes/

Edited by Supercuber
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SKY paint on RYAF planes myth was probably generated by this site/author brainstorming, published long time ago (2008).

http://www.letletlet-warplanes.com/2008/05/27/camouflage-and-markings-of-yugoslav-kingdom-warplanes/

So the information on camouflage and markings of Yugoslav aircraft in that link can be completely discounted or was that the only error?

Just asking... :whistle:

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So the information on camouflage and markings of Yugoslav aircraft in that link can be completely discounted or was that the only error?

Just asking... :whistle:

Well, take it with a pinch of salt and consult other, more recent data, published on the web or printed publications.

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Hello Vedran,

thank's for your comment. Do you have information how the colours looked? Have someone made colour comparison with existend artifacts? I have read that there is a wood or metall IK-3 modell wich was used as a painting guide by the Ikarus factory. Any info about the colours of that modell?

Over the last five years I was searching every yugoslav modell forum I found on the net for some colour information, but with little success.

Claus

You ask about paint determination and woodem paint pattern model. So, here it is.

Its not Hurricane, but clearly show that some rules and standards existed in Kingdom of Yugoslavia.

ik-3-titov.jpg

Few words more, here : http://yasigv2.wordpress.com/english/

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Hello Supercuber,

many thank's for showing the pic's of the IK-3 modell. Do you know what are the neart FS colours are for it?. I have searched the YASIG with no result.

Hello Warhawk,

also thank you for the clarification on the colours on your nice IK-2 modell. This avoid some confusion about modell colours and real aircraft paint for all non yugoslav reading people here.

Best regard

Claus

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Hello Claus,

Complete IK-3 article will be published in MaketarPlus No4, within a few weeks/month, with all the latest research and data revealed.

Free download PDF file will be at same page of IPMS Serbia : http://www.ipmssrbija.com/

Stay tuned for No4 release.

Now, just a crop from one of 4 A4 sized paint schemes color tables.

tHfEWQS.jpg

*Note: Its only digital representation of color shades, not a exact chip/sample. Use FS to find color match.

For illustration, exact match for GrayGreen one (14424) is Agama IZ5M , its spot on , checked with some Rogozarski factory samples from Yugoslav Aviation Museum.

Edited by Supercuber
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Hello Supercuber,

great info for the MaketarPlus4. I will wait and see. I have a FS Fan Deck and an AGAMA catalogue with an painted sample of Iz5M. I am very surprised how green the graygreen is.

Claus

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Hello Supercuber,

I am very surprised how green the graygreen is.

Claus

Me too, but paint chip was matched with vertical tail structure steel tube of Rogozarski R-100,preserved and displayed in Yugoslav Aviation Museum in Belgrade. Its close to RLM02 , at first glance.

Ye7EGrW.jpg

"Rogozarski Zelena (Green)" is factory official paint, used as base coat for aeroplane structure, cockpit interior and even overall paint scheme for IK-3 prototype, and first 6 series produced IK-3's . Also, other planes from Rogozarski production was painted with this paint , like SIM XIVH etc...

Edited by Supercuber
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Thank you again, Supercuber

as Rogozarski Zelena was also used as a cockpit colour, are any evidence around in Yugoslavia about the cockpit colours of an ZMAJ build Hurricane? Can it be the same as the underside colour?

Claus

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Thank you again, Supercuber

as Rogozarski Zelena was also used as a cockpit colour, are any evidence around in Yugoslavia about the cockpit colours of an ZMAJ build Hurricane? Can it be the same as the underside colour?

Claus

Just commented your question at local IPMS club meeting, an hour ago, and "VOJA" (see few posts above) confirms that ZMAJ Hurricanes interior is same as British , Interior Green.

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Just commented your question at local IPMS club meeting, an hour ago, and "VOJA" (see few posts above) confirms that ZMAJ Hurricanes interior is same as British , Interior Green.

ah, therein lies a problem, as British built planes were mostly Aluminium paint inside, cockpit side walls and back armour grey green being the exceptions up until 1942.

please see here , and the links in this post

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234963507-all-the-stupid-hurricane-questions-here/page-3#entry1682406

The ZMAJ Hurricanes, the interior colour was of Yugoslav origin?

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Well, i have no written confirmation about ZMAJ Hurricane cockpit colours but some remains salvaged from the wreck of Zmaj built Hurricane from 2.LP ( Fighter Regiment) from Knić/Dragušica airfield, april 1941. displayed in Yugoslav aviation museum, like Oxygen bottle and some cockpit parts, were green, looks like interior green to me, so, that's the conclusion, cockpit should be Green, supposedly the Interior Green.

Could you draw conclusion from this photo (EBAY sourced) of captured RYAF Hurricane .

sygX3Fb.jpg

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Well, i have no written confirmation about ZMAJ Hurricane cockpit colours but some remains salvaged from the wreck of Zmaj built Hurricane from 2.LP ( Fighter Regiment) from Knić/Dragušica airfield, april 1941. displayed in Yugoslav aviation museum, like Oxygen bottle and some cockpit parts, were green, looks like interior green to me, so, that's the conclusion, cockpit should be Green, supposedly the Interior Green.

Could you draw conclusion from this photo (EBAY sourced) of captured RYAF Hurricane .

sygX3Fb.jpg

Thanks for the speedy reply.

My opinion on the above photo is this is more likely a British built Hurricane, as it usefully shows the cockpit, note that the frame work shows up lighter than the port cockpit wall, which is an indicator this is painted aluminium.

Would not the ZMAJ built planes use whatever they used for cockpits? Was there a standard colour?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zmaj_aircraft

Is there any documentation of what they used in license built Fury's?

Are there any photos of the salvaged cockpit parts or oxygen bottle from the Zmaj built Hurricane from 2.LP?

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Well, i have no written confirmation about ZMAJ Hurricane cockpit colours but some remains salvaged from the wreck of Zmaj built Hurricane from 2.LP ( Fighter Regiment) from Knić/Dragušica airfield, april 1941. displayed in Yugoslav aviation museum, like Oxygen bottle and some cockpit parts, were green, looks like interior green to me, so, that's the conclusion, cockpit should be Green, supposedly the Interior Green.

Could you draw conclusion from this photo (EBAY sourced) of captured RYAF Hurricane .

OK, thanks for that - that's helpful. Based on this, I've made a decision. Here's the process (I wouldn't go so far as to call it logic! :lol: )

1 The interior colour is NOT aluminium paint;

2 The interior probably isn't RAF interior green per se, as the RAF weren't using this at the time;

3 Pictures of RAF interior green resemble the picture of the painted section recovered from an IK-3, that you posted above;

4 You say it looks like interior green.

My working hypothesis is that the colour is something locally produced to a spec very similar to RAF interior green (since it had the same intended end use, different groups of people came up with a very similar idea) so some generic interior green from the many brands out there will be very close - certainly a lot closer that aluminium paint!

Job's a good 'un - many thanks again!

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OK, but this one is certainly the Zmaj built, photo taken from the rear, shows inscription written on the tail, characteristic only for Zmaj built planes.

Source, trusty EBAY, as usual.

FJkAlRT.jpg

Will check on my HD archives for more pics, later...

Edited by Supercuber
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As promised, here are some cockpit pics, another view of same captured Hurricane, in Zemun/Belgrade, april 1941.

EqOkcef.jpg

1RoER7A.jpg

British built (fabric covered wing) cockpit, late 1940, Cerklje (now Slovenia) airfield, pilot Ivan Ferlan,

eKiCGPu.jpg

Zmaj built Hurricane MK1 serialed 2337, captured by Italians, tested at Guidonia Test Centre, later used as a movie star in propaganda movie named "Il piloto ritorna", by Roberto Rosselini. Screen shots from this movie.

egol7Wp.jpg

rrWx3Iy.jpg

L5gkxex.jpg

ju7mHi6.jpg

mA3pbqe.jpg

Hope this helps in determining cockpit colours .

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