Yugoslav Hurricanes - recommended schemes?

[Test Graham]

The arrival of the Airfix Mk.I lead me to haul out my Sword and AZ examples for comparison. Both give camouflage schemes. Are either (both or neither) of the kit schemes accurate? I gather these did vary, is there a good single reference source for Yugoslav Mk.Is? I have examples in a number of different books but am wary.

[PFlint]

I would recommend decals by Lift Here ! as they are made in Serbia (ex-Yugoslavia) so they have local access to information about these aircraft.

[Test Graham]

Good advice, but I would prefer to use the kit transfers as I suspect they may be more correct than the schemes on the box. I'm also interested in the production details of these aircraft, after what I've found about differences in the early British and Canadian production, so a reference source with good photos would help.

[Marcel]

Hi Graham, please PM me and I can send you some scans and pictures during the weekend. Marcel

[Steven Eisenman]

Which Hurricane? The British Hawker built, the Zmaj built or the repainted British built. Two blade three blade prop?

email me @ [email protected]

I have some articles and pictures.

Edited December 5, 2013 by Steven Eisenman

[dragonlanceHR]

Graham,

I believe you have this link

http://s84.photobucket.com/user/dragonlance_HR/library/RYAF_Hurricane_No2337?sort=4&page=1

Found a discussion on HS from 2008.

Description of Zmaj-built Hurricanes and camouflage is on this this page:

I have a list of all serial numbers somewhere (Including last twelve received from

UK with metal wings), but can't find it.

The question if UK-built aircraft ever received a third upper colour is IIRC still debated.

Vedran

[Test Graham]

Thanks Vedran. If I may make a few comments?

1. This is the first reference I have seen to these "small characteristic side fairings" in print.

2. The venturi below the cockpit on early aircraft was not a pitot tube, there was a twin-probe design under the port wing.

3. So all the Yugoslav aircraft had fabric-covered wings, including those from the Zmaj factory.

5. This scheme is green with two shades of brown, as opposed to other suggestions of brown with two shades of green.

5. I presume that all Yugoslav Hurricanes had the Merlin III.

[Steven Eisenman]

Verdan:

I know there is debate, but I'm not convinced the two blade prop Mk. Is were Zmaj built. Scheme looks distinctly British, as opposed to the Zmaj (three blade) that has a much different upper and lower demarcation and pattern.

[dragonlanceHR]

Thanks Vedran. If I may make a few comments?

1. This is the first reference I have seen to these "small characteristic side fairings" in print.

2. The venturi below the cockpit on early aircraft was not a pitot tube, there was a twin-probe design under the port wing.

3. So all the Yugoslav aircraft had fabric-covered wings, including those from the Zmaj factory.

5. This scheme is green with two shades of brown, as opposed to other suggestions of brown with two shades of green.

5. I presume that all Yugoslav Hurricanes had the Merlin III.

Graham,

to answer the third question, also Steve's question, as it says in text:

No. Second batch of 12 UK built were three-bladed prop, metal wings aircraft. All Zmaj built aircraft were three-bladed prop, fabric wings aircraft.

As to number 4), the scheme for Zmaj-built was always brown, ochre and green. I'm not aware of any other scheme published in former Yugoslavia, can't comment on other schemes.

As to 5), I presume it is so except for the first batch of 12 UK built 2-blade prop fabric winged ones.

Vedran

[Test Graham]

The colour comment was one of the reasons for checking the value of earlier representations. I should add that both kits show the version with two browns, Sword being aircraft 2337, the AZ not being specific but with a different scheme and different representation of the colours.

[Steven Eisenman]

As it is less than perfectly clear, the first 12 two bladed hurricanes were all Zmaj built. Is that correct? So when the article says "First 12 had two bladed props Watts, but all the rest (next Britsh built 12........)" it means that (the first or a total of 24) were British built and the first 12 had Watts props and all had fabric wings. All Zmaj built had 3 bladed props and fabric wings.

Do we have serial number for the Hawkwer built? Be interesting to see where they fit in as compared to the Rumanian Hurricanes, some/all (?) had metal wings.

The limited info I have seems to indicate that British built Yugoslavian Hurricanes were in the L17xx anf L18xx range, while British built Rumanian Hurricanes were in the L20xx and L21xx range.

[Test Graham]

According to Mason, the first two Hurricanes delivered to Yugoslavia were L1751 and L1752 from the first production batch for the RAF. By implication, the remainder were built for export and did not have RAF serials. The Romanian aircraft were however diverted from the current production line for the RAF and later replaced by additional aircraft with the original serials.

[dragonlanceHR]

Steven,

you're reading this the wrong way, when the text says "Yugoslav Hurricanes" they mean all Hurricanes used by RYAF. Remember that the text was not written by a native English speaker.

The text clearly says "first twelve had Watts props" meaning first twelve RYAF Hurricanes (delivered from UK), not first twelve built by Zmaj factory. The text later clearly states that all Zmaj built Hurricanes had 3-bladed props (as had the later twelve imported ones) and fabric wings, kidney-type exhausts, ring and bead sights etc.

The English text should have been clearer, but those were the early 1990's...

Vedran

Edited December 5, 2013 by dragonlanceHR

[Steven Eisenman]

Steven,

you're reading this the wrong way, when the text says "Yugoslav Hurricanes" they mean all Hurricanes used by RYAF. Remember that the text was not written by a native English speaker.

The text clearly says "first twelve had Watts props" meaning first twelve RYAF Hurricanes (delivered from UK), not first twelve built by Zmaj factory. The text later clearly states that all Zmaj built Hurricanes had 3-bladed props (as had the later twelve imported ones) and fabric wings, kidney-type exhausts, ring and bead sights etc.

The English text should have been clearer, but those were the early 1990's...

Vedran

Exactly what I meant. First 12 were Hawker built aircraft with Watts props.

Thanks.

[cdk]

Hello,

find this http://www.letletlet-warplanes.com/2008/05/27/camouflage-and-markings-of-yugoslav-kingdom-warplanes/

But I have some doubt about Sky and Mid Stone. Can it be to early for the export of these colours?

Claus

[Test Graham]

I believe you are correct. However, as regards Sky, there was a similar but glossier colour in use for the underside of Blenheims in the winter of 1939/40, so it is possible that this colour was applied to export undersides. I would regard this article as a useful guide to the hues of the colour involved but probably not the last word to be said on the subject. I was hoping this thread would draw out such a discussion.

[Steven Eisenman]

I find that many countries are treated like fourth world nations when it comes to paint. The new monograph on Hungarian fighter colors is quite clear in showing that while the colors were close to early German colors, the paints were of Hungarian manufactur and did differ, and with different names. As was the case with Hungary, Yugoslavia had a developing aircraft industry. One could reasonably expect that there was at least one paint company in Yugoslavia. The colors may have been similar to British colors, coincidentally or intentionally.

The use of a "light earth" or tan color was not unique to Yugoslavia. Greece used that color to repaint/overpaint PZL 24 and Hs 126s, in connection with use of dark green. After all that color is typical of ground in the Balkans.

The poor quality pictures of the Watts bladed Hurricanes, do no clearly show the multi-color scheem that was on the Zmaj built aircraft.

[dragonlanceHR]

Claus,

I'm afraid that Mr. Bradic's work is considered as wishful thinking and is not in high esteem in former Yugoslav republics.

As to paints used by RYAF, of course there were local manufacturers, one of them being Moster D.D. from Zagreb, Croatia, which supplied aircraft paints for Air force of the State of Slovenes, Croats and Serbians (former territories that were part of Austro-Hungary) and later the RYAF since 1918.

Up to 1937 the aircraft served in their original finish as supplied until their first bigger overhaul, when they were repainted in similar colours with locally manufactured paints.

Vedran

[cdk]

Hello Vedran,

thank's for your comment. Do you have information how the colours looked? Have someone made colour comparison with existend artifacts? I have read that there is a wood or metall IK-3 modell wich was used as a painting guide by the Ikarus factory. Any info about the colours of that modell?

Over the last five years I was searching every yugoslav modell forum I found on the net for some colour information, but with little success.

Claus

[Troy Smith]

Hello Vedran,

thank's for your comment. Do you have information how the colours looked? Have someone made colour comparison with existend artifacts? I have read that there is a wood or metall IK-3 modell wich was used as a painting guide by the Ikarus factory. Any info about the colours of that modell?

Over the last five years I was searching every yugoslav modell forum I found on the net for some colour information, but with little success.

Claus

Claus

this kit

http://aeropoxy.wordpress.com/models/aeropoxy-props/rogozarski-ik-3-148/

has details of colours with RAL equivalents i think [kit not hand]

Also, the book, Romanian Fighter Colours,

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Romanian-Fighter-Colours-1941-1945-Morusanu/dp/8389450909/

Note the ex-Yugoslav Hurricane on the cover, and has FS matches for the Yugoslav colours i think [book in box] but certainly has information on them.

If you want more information I can dig out the kit and book in the near future.

HTH

T

[dragonlanceHR]

Claus,

download this free Serbian scale modelers magazine called Maketar Plus

http://www.ipmssrbija.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/MAKETAR-PLUS-01.pdf

There is a build article of the 1/72 Azur-FRROM IK-3 kit, with Revell color references. All paints have a glossy finish - the paint were glossy and the aircraft were polished and well cared for.

As to the factory IK-3 model with original colours, I'd suggest contacting the Aeropoxy owner Mr. Miklusev (IIRC BM nickname SuperCuber), he used to run the Yasig forum(s), one of them (there were several "iterations" on various web hosts) IIRC had a photo of this model, but I don't have it saved on my PC.

Vedran

[cdk]

Hello Troy,

thank's for the offer. I have that book and was confused about the FS callouts on the page 53 vs page 189 for the yugoslav Hurri. But now I think on page 53 are some printing errors.

Hello Vedran,

also thank's to you for the link. Maybe you know the tent halfes that are in use by the ex yugoslavien armee ( post WWII )? On a light green background are strips in yellow and dark red brown. Can the colours of these tent's be helpfull for a WWII yugoslav airplain?

Claus

[Troy Smith]

Claus,

download this free Serbian scale modelers magazine called Maketar Plus

http://www.ipmssrbija.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/MAKETAR-PLUS-01.pdf

There is a build article of the 1/72 Azur-FRROM IK-3 kit, with Revell color references. All paints have a glossy finish - the paint were glossy and the aircraft were polished and well cared for.

As to the factory IK-3 model with original colours, I'd suggest contacting the Aeropoxy owner Mr. Miklusev (IIRC BM nickname SuperCuber), he used to run the Yasig forum(s), one of them (there were several "iterations" on various web hosts) IIRC had a photo of this model, but I don't have it saved on my PC.

Vedran

HI Vedran

useful info. I had a look at the pdf.

Rogožarski siva:

Mat bela + Revell

matt 55 light blue + Cink hromat zelena

u odnosu 8:1:1

– Oker: Revell matt 16 + Revell SM

382 u odnosu 1:1

– Zelena: Revell gloss 61 + Revell

matt 48 + Mat bela u odnosu 3:2:1

– Braon: Humbrol Hu 98

google translate plus looking up the paint colours gets

Blue - Matt white + Revell matt 55 light blue + zinc chromate green mix ratio 8:1:1

Ochre - Revell matt 16 sandy yellow + Revell SM382 wood brown silk mix 1:1

Green : Revell gloss 61 emerald green + Revell matt 48 Sea green + Matt white mix 3:2:1

Brown: Humbrol Hu 98

HTH

T

[Supercuber]

Hello Graham ,

Vedran already presented some useful data and hints.

If you have AZ7258 Hawker Hurricane Mk.I. early "Foreigner" 1/72 , you could discard the Royal Yugoslav AF Hurricane scheme, including decals, which are wrong in size and shape.

If you have Sword boxed decals , they are usable and you could build only No 2337, Zmaj built Hurricane, captured by Italians. For this, you will need only one "Kosovo" cross decal , yellow stenciling and state flag.

You could use this scheme from AEROPLAN 2/1990, sublimed in YASIG bulletin,

Regarding paint question, despite RYAF have standardized paint charts and mixes , each factory uses own supplier, and mixes its own shades in factory paintshop.

So, Zmaj uses british pigments and paints and Rogozarski uses Durlin email range produced by Belgrade "Reichhold,Fluger & Boecking" paint factory.

This result in slight difference of tone and shade between Zmaj, Ikarus or Rogozarski built planes.

Or simply search for some LiftHere decals or instructions over the web, they are more accurate than decals in both kits you mentioned.

http://lifthereserbia.wordpress.com/lh-decals/aircraft-172/

Some nice comparison overviews of 1/72 Hurricanes, here:

http://krila72.wordpress.com/vazduhoplovstvo-vojske/hawker-hurricane-mk-i/

http://krila72.wordpress.com/vazduhoplovstvo-vojske/hawker-hurricane-i-early/

[Supercuber]

Or if you prefer German captured one, 2347,

later repaired and sold to Romania,

Standard ZMAJ built Hurricanes paint pattern, quite close to Rogozarski IK-3 scheme , Lift Here decals , color instruction sheet.

Paints suggestion by LiftHere,

Light Blue FS 25352 Humbrol 65 / ModelMaster 1562 - undersides

Dark Earth FS 30219 Humbrol 118 / ModelMaster 1742 - topside

Dark Green FS 34079 Humbrol 116 / ModelMaster 1710 - topside

Dark Brown FS 30o45 Humbrol 98 / ModelMaster ???? - topside

But if you stay with 2337, and need some supredetailing photos, look here for its fate, when becomes Movie Star.

http://yasig.forumsr.com/t70-zmaj-hawker-hurricane-movie-star

Happy Modelling,

Edited January 23, 2014 by Supercuber