Dazzio Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 I knew as soon as I read the title this was going to create a s***storm of fun. First of all, I love the way that everyone thinks that as soon as you say UFO's people believe you are referring to little grey men in silver onesies in saucer shaped spacecraft. It bugs the hell out of me that people can be that ignorant-minded. I personally believe that the two are totally different things. I've seen a "UFO" myself, still to this day do not know what it was, never looked it up and never reported it either. So I will never know what it was most likely, HOWEVER to think it was aliens is a little far fetched. I also wouldn't doubt that our government or government's or even the illumanti (apparently they are in control of the world... yeah right...) would cover up the existence of them, HAD they been here. But the distances involved are just too mind blowing to comprehend. At the moment the Voyager 1 spacecraft is 126 AU's from the sun and Voyager 2 is 103 AU's (these figures are from JPL so I believe them to be correct). An AU is a Astronomical Unit, basically how long light takes to travel in one second. The moon is 0.00256957312 AU from us roughly so an AU is a pretty big figure eh? Some people also think that light takes 8 minutes to travel from the Sun to Earth. Well it does once it's left the sun, it can take upto 22,000 years for the photon to leave the suns surface (I read that in Sky at Night). So to put it into kilometres, Voyager 1 is 19,011,000,000 km (the figure is rounded because obviously it is still moving) and Voyager 2 is 15.582,000,000 km. However I have read, in Sky at Night that one of them is actually slowing down, I think its Voyager 1. Whats baffling JPL and whoever was looking into it, is the fact the Voyagers are past the Suns gravitational pull! So what is pulling it back? What has this got to do with UFOs and Aliens?? Sod all, I was just trying to point out that there is still loads of things we can not understand. It would take us 84 years (roughly) to reach Proxima Centauri (our closest star bar the Sun) with Nuclear Pulse propulsion, theoretically, which is 4.2 light years away. The star is red dwarf, so practically in it's death throws pretty pointless is going there but it would be a massive boost when you think about it (think thats what the Icarus Project talked about this year). Now with all of these distances involved it would take a very smart civilisation to reach us, travelling at the speed of light? To bloody slow! Not to mention practically impossible with out some super-unkonwn energy source. But then the energy involved to bend space and time to create a wormhole is also immense. Albert Einstein (I think it was him off the top of my head or was it Stephen Hawking??) theorised that Wormholes exist BUT once you decide to go into it becomes unstable, how this effects Lorentzian wormhole's I have no idea. There is the wandering star theory, which apparently there are millions of stars that have been thrown from their galaxies after collisions, end of the arms, whatever. There could be a red dwarf out there harbouring life that we do not know about. The closest planet that could harbour life is called Gliese 581 c and it is 20.4 light years from us and is also a "Super-Earth", there could be life on it we do not know from this distance. usually the only picture we get from them is a pixel wide if that. But what if we are looking in the wrong place, yeah we are sure looking in the right place for us, but we live on a hydrological cycle, what if these aliens lived on a methodological cycle for example? Their prerequisite for life would be vastly different, plus our planet would most likely kill them (methane would be a gas at earth temperatures). The best place to look for ET is actually in our own solar system on the small moon from Saturn called Enceladus, it is believe that it has an icy surface but is liquid water underneath. Of course the only problem with this theory is as soon as we drill to look for it, we'd must likely kill whatever is under there by introducing them to things they are not used to, metals, bacteria, viruses that kinda thing. Then we have Titan, Enceladus' bigger brother, it has liquid lakes, but these are ethane and methane. Basically, what I am saying is I don't believe there is aliens visiting our planet, I would love there to be! Seriously I would, just to see the look on Bill O'reilys face... the man who once had an argument about how the moon got where it did. But I doubt it's happening the way some people... romanticise about it (not sure if that is the correct word...). However I do agree that there is some funky stuff going on that we can not explain but must have a rational answer, what that answer is, god knows. As for the light reflecting off Venus onto swamp gas or whatever it was... blah! I know there is also a video of the ISS following two "things" that flew around the earth a few times pretty good video if you can find it. I bet a lot of it is some super-secret military thing... like the Aurora aircraft... failing that... It has to be Iran... all quake in fear! Also I can think of something that flies that doesn't make a sound, a glider On another point, if ET does exist, he'd better hurry up, we are heading for a collision with Andromeda at the grand speed of 250,000 mph (roughly), we will hit in about 5 billion years, so he'd better get his act together! Also the universe is said to be expanding at 73.8km/sec/megaparsec, so in the time it's taken me to type this out (57 minutes, I had to check the figures where correct) so that'll be 57*60*73.8 = 252,396km. Thats for just under an hour... The real main point would be, if you was an advanced alien race, would you really WANT to come to earth? Look at all of the chavs we have!!! I have no way intended to insult anyone or their believes, unless you are Bill O'reily I just hope that all made sense... I must say now that my figures could be a little wrong. Been a while since I've done this kinda stuff... Kind Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonD Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 I once saw an absolute cracker of a UFO. It was late at night and there was a full Moon, and suddenly I saw a group of coloured lights that seemed to be rising vertically towards it. After a few seconds they passed in front of it and, yes, it was just an airliner flying towards me so that it looked as if it was rising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetboy Posted December 9, 2013 Author Share Posted December 9, 2013 hi, did,nt carl sagen insist on ancient sumerian text be included on the voyager,,,,,sorry veeger disc,just to be on the safe side? cheers Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazzio Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 Aye he did Jetboy, it was also deemed a bad idea by some as it practically tells whoever where we are. But then again it's not supposed to reach its first star until 40,000 years time. Hopefully we'd be getting along a little better by then. Kind Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightningboy2000 Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 Indeed. When the Space Shuttle crew radio back to Earth they have a UFO outside, that makes it into Real Space in my book. They did didn't they? And I'm not talking about those clips of ice sliding off the cabin windows. Couldn't help myself! This is a subject I love! Is there a "UFO's and Aliens" section on Britmodeller anyway, there is now! Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightningboy2000 Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 hi martin, if you look through the index on here ,i did a quick look at the 1/72 a model,and i think the shuttle,cutaway one,i think if you want tile for tile replica,s probably the arc forum,.......UNLESS your going to start one,it would be intresting,as there are a few shuttle lurkers on here now and again,I could certainly do with some help in that dept,what are you waiting for? cheers in anticipation..Don Nope, those Amodel monsters scare me! I had a quick look at one when I last made a visit to Hannants. Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightningboy2000 Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 I've heard of a Swiss Triangle. Better known as Toblerone. "Belgian triangle"!!!??? If you don't know what that is, then you haven't lived! Not sure that subject needs to be on here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightningboy2000 Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 Anywhere near the custard mines? Just down the road from the liqourice quarry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonD Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 Of course the jam butty mines are in Knotty Ash, near Liverpool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetboy Posted December 10, 2013 Author Share Posted December 10, 2013 its getting silly now,come on now ORDER,order... not sure what the pink elephant is,but it looks cool? Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marty_hopkirk Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 Just down the road from the liqourice quarry! Liquorice is surely grown on mushrooms, near Pontefract? Marty... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonD Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 its getting silly now,come on now ORDER,order... not sure what the pink elephant is,but it looks cool? Don Er - does anybody but Don see a pink elephant? Time to cut back, I think, Don... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bentwaters81tfw Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 We have Treacle Mines here in Trimley What pink elephant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleeperService Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 Belgian Triangle? Is that anything like the Bermuda Triangle? Yes it must be. I went to Bruges on a stag weekend and didn't return home for a week. There were some weird marks on my body and I have no recollection of events so I must have been abducted by aliens. Two others on the trip had the same experience. QED. Our development of space technology has pretty much stagnated.....Why is that do you think? Because we're at the limit of what the current technology can achieve. At the moment the next step hasn't been found. Imagine 1945 with no jet engine. You do all you can with what you've got while you develop the next step. Through most of the 70s, 80s and 90s most of NASA's development was in generating mountains of schemes for a space station and NO hardware for it. Other projects like NERVA were cancelled or cut down to feed more money into the station project. The nadir was the 90 Day report for Bush Senior which came very close to shutting NASA down completely. I've heard of a Swiss Triangle. Better known as Toblerone. I've had an interesting series of relationships with individual Toblerones over the years...never seem to last though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Squarehead Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 (edited) Sorry dude, but that ain't so, we've had propulsions systems significantly more capable than those since the fifties.....And I'm not talking about 'anti-grav' or 'wormholes', I mean Orion. A half decent Orion could have put the ISS up there in one go, for a fraction of the cost! In fact why even bother with the ISS, just launch an Orion and park it in orbit.....Sure you'll have to detonate couple of nukes to get it up there, but big deal, I mean.....Really! Edited December 10, 2013 by Sgt.Squarehead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleeperService Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 (edited) Actually it was about 400 to get to Earth orbit. But even then it wouldn't be faster than a chemical rocket by a big enough factor to make a difference. Say it was 10 times faster, about right BTW, great for manned flights to Jupiter or Saturn but still struggling to get further in a reasonable time. That's because the ship had to be enormous to keep acceleration down to a level that the crew could stand for months. Remember my earlier post? The fastest manned spacecraft ever was Apollo 10 which achieved 36,397 ft/sec which is 39,937 kph, to get to our nearest star at this speed would take 114,000 years.... That'd still be 11,000 years, or 1100 years if it could average 100 times a chemical rocket. We have nothing that even hints at a way forward at the moment apart from some contested papers on potential 'warp drive' systems. Trust me they're about as likely as fusion reactors in the next forty years. That nugget has been dangled to keep researchers in grant money nothing else, same as fusion reactors. To have the sort of inter-stellar ship UFOs would need to be is as far ahead of us as an atom bomb would be to the Romans. BTW the first UFOs reported were described as boomerang shaped skipping through the air like a saucer skipped over a lake, that got garbled between the first press reports and the National US Press to being like saucers. Then, as if by magic, the aliens change their spaceships to a saucer configuration! Edited December 11, 2013 by SleeperService Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Squarehead Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 (edited) Not sure about those figures dude.....Speed's not the factor either, payload is the factor (oh, and radiation shielding of course). For long distance journeys take your Orion to an asteroid, convert asteroid into luxurious accomodation facility, use Orion to nudge asteroid towards destination, dock Orion with asteroid, settle down to enjoy your retirement.....The kids/grandkids etc. can then use the Orion to decelerate at the other end. We need to start thinking in starfaring terms, including timescale.....Stop grubbing around on this rock, launching puny payloads in an attempt to sell more mobile phones to each other and do some actual proper exploring again.....Humanity is at its very best when it has a frontier to explore. Edited December 11, 2013 by Sgt.Squarehead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Squarehead Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 (edited) Interstellar journeys may be a little beyond us for a while, but there's a whole big solar system out there and an Orion would be a much better way of getting around it than anything we've got at present, by a mssive margin.....And we could have started work on it fifty years ago. Imagine where we might be now! As you know I'm not 100% convinced by the Apollo program.....I've often wondered if it might not have been used as a cover for a clandestine Orion program? It appears that the Saturn booster had the capability to lift a 10m (That's diameter, not length! ) Orion to orbit so that it would not need to light up the nuclear pulse drive in the atmosphere (it may actually have been designed for that purpose). What exactly did Gary McKinnon discover that upset the Americans so badly? Edited December 11, 2013 by Sgt.Squarehead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonD Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 I've had an interesting series of relationships with individual Toblerones over the years...never seem to last though Anything like the, er, relationship that Marianne Faithfull allegedly had with a Mars Bar? Sorry dude, but that ain't so, we've had propulsions systems significantly more capable than those since the fifties.....And I'm not talking about 'anti-grav' or 'wormholes', I mean Orion. A half decent Orion could have put the ISS up there in one go, for a fraction of the cost! In fact why even bother with the ISS, just launch an Orion and park it in orbit.....Sure you'll have to detonate couple of nukes to get it up there, but big deal, I mean.....Really! Great idea! We could launch it from Norfolk, then the effects of the radiation wouldn't be noticeable! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bentwaters81tfw Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 Great idea! We could launch it from Norfolk, then the effects of the radiation wouldn't be noticeable! The effects wouldn't be noticed you mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D1fuN0 Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 Don, I can positively say that something of that nature exists. A few years ago when I was busy doing the final part of my bit up there, the four of us saw an 'object' Now this was not your bright shiny lights effort, this was black, VERY black and was only pointed out when one of the guys saw it moving around against the night sky. We watched it for, well, about 30 minutes, until it appeared to descend not too far away. We hot footed it over to where we thought it was, but we couldn't find any further trace of it. Cant actually tell you what shape it was, simply because the shape was indeterminable really from where we where, and being out in the bush, with no other sources of light, it just looked like a big blob. The following morning we followed our line of the previous evening, but there really were no signs of anything at all. Very strange... This was in Botswana, uuurm about 6-7 years ago, inside Chobe National Park Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleeperService Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 Not sure about those figures dude.....Speed's not the factor either, payload is the factor (oh, and radiation shielding of course). Which figures exactly. I've got a lot of stuff on space propulsion systems from popular up to basic celestial mechanics (I've simplified the figures I quoted by ommitting the effects of the latter as you can't travel in a straight line in space, light does, by comparison). Anything like the, er, relationship that Marianne Faithfull allegedly had with a Mars Bar? Similar idea, different orifice, gets modified more my way as well!!! Keith's autobiography is a very good read BTW, make an excellent Christmas read when you're not on BM of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Squarehead Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 (edited) The whole 400 warheads to orbit thing.....It's 100% bogus! Some of the representations of Orion that I've seen in the media were nothing more than flights of fancy, one I specifically recall was depicted dwarfing the statue of liberty! Orion was deliberately packaged for conventional launch on a Saturn booster, either as a single payload in which case it would light up the pulse drive at over 100km up, or in three sections for assembly in orbit, no nukes required. Interestingly this fact renders Freeman Dyson's publically stated reason for abandoning the Orion concept completely null and void.....TBH I've never really believed that the USAF would have been too bothered by the notion that each launch would 'kill an abstract somebody, somewhere'.....The US military was already quite regularly nuking its own personell at the time if you recall. Edited December 11, 2013 by Sgt.Squarehead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleeperService Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 The whole 400 warheads to orbit thing.....It's 100% bogus! Some of the representations of Orion that I've seen in the media were nothing more than flights of fancy, one I specifically recall was depicted dwarfing the statue of liberty! Orion was deliberately packaged for conventional launch on a Saturn booster, either as a single payload in which case it would light up the pulse drive at over 100km up, or in three sections for assembly in orbit, no nukes required. Interestingly this fact renders Freeman Dyson's publically stated reason for abandoning the Orion concept completely null and void.....TBH I've never really believed that the USAF would have been too bothered by the notion that each launch would 'kill an abstract somebody, somewhere'.....The US military was already quite regularly nuking its own personell at the time if you recall. Actually Sarge the Statue of Liberty Orion was the first proposal for the 1000 ton at launch vehicle, that needed 400ish bombs to get to orbit. They weren't conventional atom bombs rather they were nuclear enhanced conventional bombs. They were very efficent at applying power to the ship but generated a lot of radioactive dust, this caused Freeman to consider the impact and the potential deaths were a concern. During the War he worked for the RAF deciding where to bomb for the most effect. He has consistently stated since that he hated determining who was to die but justified himself by the fact that the end result would be fewer civilians killed, as well as RAF Crews. Orion was cancelled on the advice of MacNamanara by Kennedy who had decided that NASA would run the Space Programme rather than the Army or Air Force who had been running side by side previously. NASA had already decided to go the chemical rocket route as it seemed more straight-forward. Politicians making uninformed decisions again. The Saturn Orion package came later when consideration was being given to what would come after Apollo. One approach was the Apolllo Applications Programme which produced Skylab but everything further was cut, the full AAP is covered very well in Return to Tiber by Buzz Aldrin (a very good book). Small Orion was another approach as you describe. All of these were killed stone dead by Tricky Dickie Nixon who needed to pay for the Vietnam War, policing a Nation on the point of a Second Revolution and other dubious activities. Freeman Dyson had no issues with nuclear applications but he wanted them to be safe to use and live with. He designed a very smart small reactor power module to be used to provide long-term supplies for hospitals and the like. If anything went wrong it simply shuts down, brilliant! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetboy Posted December 13, 2013 Author Share Posted December 13, 2013 a month old but intresting read, http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/10/russia-alien-autopsy-crashed-ufo_n_4411271.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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