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Dont Ever Ever Ever tell me u.f.o,s Dont exist?


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Rendlesham was definately not a hoax, despite what Conde claims. Sadly idiots like Ridpath and Clarke get too much airtime.

Ridpath actually claimed it was the Orford Ness Lighthouse. I have yet to see a lighthouse fly and land in a field and a forest.

When the Forestry Commission opened their UFO trail, the inaugural visit was oversubscribed; my ex got us in by virtue of being a witness. We were given a talk by the FC guy, then Ridpath spouted his 'theory' claptrap.

At that point, my ex spoke up and totally demolished his claims. At the time of the incident, not only did the craft fly past her down a fire break below treetop height at a distance of 60 feet, as witnessed by others, but she lived across the field from the landing site.

It is a farming community and all the livestock went berserk that night. Many witnesses saw it but refuse to talk. The USAF went to Neatishead and confiscated the radar recordings. As I said, I have met Jim Penniston, John Burrows, Larry Warren, Peter Robbins and Nick Pope at a meeting 3 christmasses ago. The place was packed out with over 300 witnesses and researchers. Clarke and Ridpath were nowhere to be seen.

Penniston, Burrows and Warren were the SP's who first saw and went to the site on the first night. Penniston showed us his notebook from that night. Burrows attended on the second night, when the craft returned. Whist it was on the ground, Base Commander Charles Halt also attended and made 6 audio recordings of events. Only one has been released.

The others he keeps as 'insurance'. On this night, a second, larger orange coloured craft hovered above the forest, being observed by the SP's in the WSA watchtowers. On the third night the large craft landed, but no-one will discuss what happened.

All the SP's were immediately split up and reassigned to bases worldwide. Their families were gone within days, leaving base personnel to pack and ship their belongings.

Penniston made his report. Two days later he was asked to sign the 'Official' version. He says it bore no resemblance to what happened or what he wrote. His notebook confirms this. The base was cordoned off for days (over Xmas and New Year) and for weeks afterwards, armed guards patrolled the forest.

It's a hell of a lot of fuss for something that 'didn't happen'!

If you want a detailed report, get a copy of this.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/You-Cant-Tell-People-Definitive/dp/033039021X

The author, now sadly passed away, was a close friend of one of my oldest friends. I discussed the matter with her. She went Stateside to interview Penniston, Burroughs and Halt. Halt confirmed that a craft had overflown 'hot row' and pierced the bunkers with a light beam. The author had many contacts in high places, and spoke to Margaret Thatcher about the incident; a quote from her forms the title of the book.

Penniston said 'I'm not asking anyone to believe in aliens, all I will say is that craft was way in advance of anything we, or any foreign powers posessed at that time, or now, and I've seen most of that stuff.'

Bentwaters was the recipient of many 'visits' which were not publicised. Although the incident took place in 1980, it did not come into the limelight until 10 years later. I knew about it within 3 days of the event.

As with most events of this nature, there are always half a dozen 'hoax' stories. Why so many? It's only done to confuse. If there is an 'official' explanation, why do you need different versions....a bit like Roswell. (if you want the lowdown on that, read this.)

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Day-After-Roswell-Philip-Corso/dp/0613100638

----------------------

As Nick Pope says, Rendlesham remains 'unexplained', but don't forget he is covered by the Official Secrets Act.

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I just can't get my head round these pics!

Looks like the girl is promoting the Nevada test range holiday resort! "The hottest place to strut your stuff!" Come to the best place to get an instant sun tan!

Radioactive cake any one? They really do look in celebratory mood don't they?

How times & attitudes change!!!

Martin

HI,MARTIN. sure was a weird time,everyone worshipped the atom,it was going to change the world,and look what happened???

one thing though,.....where did the ford nuclion go too,i thought everyone should have at least two nuclear cars...

fordnuclion_zps3f7e2b7b.png

cheers Don

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Well hello people, This thread seems to bring out a few lurkers i say GOOD the more for discussion the better ,but it seems to be a very emotive subject for some people?

To be honest,i was going to let the thread disapear into the ether,but its a subject that people have strong feelings about,so lets go on,?i know some people will think,whats this subject doing in real space,its not real...well ive got to differ on that one im afraid,plus you cannot have a intelligent debate on a topic if your retort is always going to be,loonys.not real,etc,you have to give a reason,why you think that,otherwise,there is no point???

You really have to think about why,policemen,astronauts.pilots army/forces personel,report things like this,to me there is something,we dont understand happening?that is obvious,but what it is,thats the sticking point???you must think there is something to it all,whats the most famous ufo,remark,well the best one i know of,is the bloke who designed the black projects sr71 and others,it was based on a object,he himself saw from an aircraft?there has to be something in these things somewhere.

Would,nt you think,with the amount of time NASA/roscosmos etc spend in space,they would have a better understanding of these things,instead of they dont exist,would,nt you think the RAF with all there time flying etc would have an explanation,instead of they dont exist?nearly every country has an air force,every country will have radar detection equipment pointed somewhere,and all that technology and the best answer so far is weather balloons,secret balloon projects,flares...come on get real,?

patrick moore said in his lifetime,it went from the first flights to walking on the moon,i say the world has got a lot of things in store for us yet,?bring it on...

cheers Don

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My problem with the topic is that I don't think that it really fits into "Real Space" as a discussion topic.

I wish there was more debate and discussion on ACTUAL spacecraft and technology, the history and future developments.

God knows there is enough stuff around now to fuel such genuine threads.

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Rendlesham was definately not a hoax, despite what Conde claims. Sadly idiots like Ridpath and Clarke get too much airtime.

As Nick Pope says, Rendlesham remains 'unexplained', but don't forget he is covered by the Official Secrets Act.

As, for Pope I give him credit for making a lot out of very little. Most of Rendlesham Forest 'incident'' is anecdotal after the event event and how is 300 folk gathering decades after the event proof?

At the very best we have a frightened individual on the end of (an unauthenticated tape that mysteriously appeared decades later) of a cheap hoax, that caught every one one the hop.

Oh! the OSA is a good one, how senior was Pope? The detail are freely available from the Public Record Office and there is no evidence thts this so called got remotely elevated to ministerial let alone even mention Primeinseterial level.

Marty...

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Talk, talk, talk.

Rumour, rumour, rumour.

Speculation, speculation, speculation,

That is all the UFO world circulates around.

What's always missing is hard evidence, hard evidence, hard evidence.

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There is hard evidence to prove Evolution yet many millions reject it... Generally people will believe whatever the want to believe and no amount of hrad evidence againts those belief will change their views... such is human nature.

I am firmly rooted in the "there are no aliens currently flying around on earth" camp but so long as others believing in their existance does not effect me directly I am not fussed about what they wish to believe.... each to his/her own and all.

As for the placing of this discussion in the Real Space section when there is a perfectly good Sci-fi section available, well I'm happy to cut some slack and keep the discussion of the existance of 'real aliens' in this section...

The Sci-fi section (to my mind) is for all the man made COMIC/NOVEL/TV/MOVIE stuff from Avatar to X-men.

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There is hard evidence to prove Evolution yet many millions reject it... Generally people will believe whatever the want to believe and no amount of hrad evidence againts those belief will change their views... such is human nature.

So true. Often the truth is mundane and routine and conspiracy theories come across a being outlandishly sexy.

Marty...

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Hmm, there is plenty hard evidence for evolution - it's called fossils of things like dinosaurs, genetic similarity/family trees using DNA sequences, the distribution of animals and plants, animal breeding, and so on.

I don't remember seeing any flying saucers in the local museum ...

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There are gaps in most of our theories.....Including evolution. :rolleyes:

Don't get me wrong. I'm no creationist loon, but the theory of evolution is not complete and it has issues.....It's been discovered recently that DNA contains error checking mechanisms similar to those used in computer code (similar routines appear to exist in the very fabric of spacetime too), this makes it rather tricky to explain how 'beneficial mutations' (the core of evolutionary theory) are passed down from generation to generation. :shrug:

To those whose only contribution to this thread amounts to "I don't believe!".....Great, why not clear off and post a thread about the non-existance of ET/UFOs and leave this one to those of us who wish to discuss the concept in a sensible manner? To be brutally honest, those of us that are intersted in the subject have usually done a lot of research on it (which in no way makes us 'believers' by default), but I strongly suspect that most of those critical of the subject have done little or none. :wall:

I'd like to hope that you wouldn't go barging into a thread about aircraft or tanks that you knew nothing about.....So why do it here? You've made demands for evidence, but has anyone even bothered to follow up any of the links provided so far, or do some research of their own? There are many well documented reports with comprehensive radar/visual evidence of mysterious objects flying in our skies that continue to defy our best attempts at identification.....QED UFOs exist. How hard can it be? :doh:

Hmm, there is plenty hard evidence for evolution - it's called fossils of things like dinosaurs, genetic similarity/family trees using DNA sequences, the distribution of animals and plants, animal breeding, and so on.

I don't remember seeing any flying saucers in the local museum ...

Did you see a Higg's Boson or an Anti-Proton while you were there? How about a Black-Hole or a Pulsar? :bleh:

All of our theories are just that....Theories! They are our best attempt at describing the infinite mystery of the universe that surrounds us, they are not and are not purported to be (by those that understand them at least) statements of hard fact. Previous theories, which in their heyday were as popular or more so than our current versions included a Flat Earth and Geocentric Cosmology.....As it turned out they wern't worth the parchment they were written on, but they were dead popular at the time and you could get into right bother if you took issue with them publically.....Ask Copernicus or Galileo! :analintruder:

Edited by Sgt.Squarehead
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Their very presence here would screw up their subjective timeline.....If they came here they could never get back to their original timeline, as for them it would no longer exist. They would have created a new timeline (or perhaps skipped between pre-existing 'parallel' timelines) upon arrival by virtue of their sudden appearance in a place they shouldn't be (from the point of view of their original objective timeline). :nerd:

But surely they are always destined to be time travellers, and therefore their travel back to our time will always have happened? Then they aren't changing history, but merely becoming part of it by doing what they were always meant to do.... :shutup:

I think time travel is too complicated for my brain.

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Why Rendlesham ??Why land there??

Good question.....There was a VERY secure US facility nearby, was it possibly heading there? :hmmm:

UFOs seem to be very interested in Nuclear Weapons facilities (like Bentwaters or even good old Roswell). :nerd:

Here's a couple of interesting and well researched pieces on the infamous Malmstrom AFB incident of 1967, one from each side of the fence so to speak:

http://www.cufon.org/cufon/malmstrom/malm1.htm

http://timhebert.blogspot.co.uk/2010/11/did-ufos-disable-minuteman-missiles-at.html

They draw very different conclusions, but I don't consider either viewpoint to be any more valid than the other.....Both depend on a certain amount of supposition to support their conclusions and consequently should IMHO be viewed as Theories' (see my post above) rather than statements of fact. :pipe:

But surely they are always destined to be time travellers, and therefore their travel back to our time will always have happened? Then they aren't changing history, but merely becoming part of it by doing what they were always meant to do.... :shutup:

I think time travel is too complicated for my brain.

Time travel and the paradoxes it creates are too complicated for any human brain.....We just don't (consciously) exist in enough dimensions! :winkgrin:

There are however means of accessing normally inaccessible dimensions (see my comment re: Terence & Dennis McKenna).....But they are rather random and unpredictable in their results (without a lifetime spent in training) and the outcome of 'amateur access attempts' can have very negative consequences for your health. :hypnotised::mental:

Edited by Sgt.Squarehead
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Why Rendlesham ??Why land there??

The Twin Base complex of Bentwaters/Woodbridge, in Rendlesham Forest, was the largest American repository of free fall nuclear weapons outside CONUS. For decades the bases housed a First Strike wing of the USAF tasked with a one way ticket with Instant Sunshine for Mother Russia.

As has been stated, UFO's or similar unidentified craft have been well reported on overflying nuclear establishments. The are accounts on record of them appearing over Minuteman silos and rendering the missiles inoperative.

There is a vast amount of accredited testimony about this stuff, it's simply that the PTB don't want it publicly acknowledged. The primary reason appears they feel it would undermine organised Religion and cause mass panic. Don't forget, the PTB want/need/intend to keep CONTROL of the masses. Have you noticed whenever UFO's are discussed in the Mainstream Media, the stories are always ridiculed and witnesses treated as though they are deluded?

Can you think of another subject in the media, or elsewhere that is treated thus?

Please do some research. This is a good place to start.

http://www.timothygood.co.uk/

Don't forget, when these things were sighted by aircrew in WW2, by all sides, the High Commands looked into it, they all thought each other had something new and fantastic they didn't know about. Churchill ordered a high level review into it. The results for some reason never get published. Truman and Eisenhower both ordered reports. Carter saw a UFO of his own when he was in the USN, Sen Barry Goldwater stated he would put it in the public domain if he took office. Curtis Le May was called at Wright Patterson and asked about Hangar 18.He blew his stack and told Goldwater never to refer to it again. I understand it killed their friendship.

The Russians discuss it openly, they have a television series about it, Many South American countries acknowledge it, and report it in their press, Likewise the Chinese. How come we ridicule it and make out witnesses are barking?

To quote a phrase....The Truth is Out There!

I'm not asking anyone to believe, I'm asking them to do their own research and come to an informed decision. A blanket 'I Don't Believe' doesn't cut it.

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Considering the debate that can go on, and on, and on about the correct shade of RLM 62 Grün without ever reaching total agreement why should we expect to win others over to 'our view' on a subject as emotive as the existance of ET aliens.

I saw the magician Dynamo walk on water... I don't know how he did it but I know he didn't really walk on water... likewise just because something (like a UFO) cannot be explained does not mean it is aliens, it just means we don't know the explination yet.

Now I understand the the same argument can be used by the 'belivers' just because something (like a UFO) cannot be explained does not mean it is not aliens.

Upshot is I amd many others do not see it as aliens... and likewise others do believe it is aliens (ET)... I won't force you to accept my belief so long as you do not expect me to believe yours.

As for not commenting in the thread simply because we say "I do not believe"... well sorry but that is not your call... dismiss others views as chaff it you wish but let all comments stand so long as comments are acceptable according to the rules of BM in that they are not offensive and do not attack other members.

Let everyone who wishes too have a say and those that do not like it can offer their own retort.

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There is a vast amount of accredited testimony about this stuff, it's simply that the PTB don't want it publicly acknowledged. The primary reason appears they feel it would undermine organised Religion [emphasis added] and cause mass panic. Don't forget, the PTB want/need/intend to keep CONTROL of the masses.

To me this part of the argument doesn't hold water. Why don't "they" try to keep Richard Dawkins quiet then? He seems to be the number one spokesman for anti-religious views at the moment. "They" don't try to prevent his views being heard, which are strongly against any form of religion at all! Also, I would have thought "they" would try to hush up the papers reporting Catholic abuse of children too? But that has been a hot topic for a number of years now. And why introduce laws that are unpopular to many religious views such as gay marriage? Hang on, I hear a can of worms being opened... :oops:

I also cannot believe any form of governement can be that orgnised, as they seem singularly unable to stay on top of other, relatively easier, issues such as banks, energy suppliers, education, health, international relations... Need I go on?!?

-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-

I remember a story from the Sunday Sport many years ago, when I worked in a paper shop. It proudly declared that a womans son had been transformed into a fish finger. She was adamant about this fact, and it was even included in a TV programme about the paper around the same time. She was on camera stating that she thought her son was now a fish finger. She seemed to truly believe it as well, and showed the fish finger to the reporters.

Now I'm not saying people who believe in aliens are the equivalent of a woman who thinks her son is a fish finger, but if she can believe that with little or no evidence (and maybe some emotional and mental issues too, who knows...) then isn't it possible for people to use limited data to reach other conclusions that are not entirely correct? We once thought the world was flat because we had never been all the way around it. Our observations of the heavens made us think the world was at the centre of the solar system. Is it then so hard to believe that, without all the evidence, and working with the best of our knowledge and understanding, we could come to the conclusion that something we don't understand fully can only be alien, when in fact it is not?

One of my friends once reported to me that her kettle had come on in the middle of the night on a number of occasions, waking her up. She thought it was due to a ghost. I think it is much more likely that there was an electrical problem. We never did conduct a seance or take apart the kettle to find out, as neither of us are mediums or electricians, but that did not change either of our views as to why it had happened. Without all the evidence, it is impossible for either of us to be 100% certain of the cause.

Now, forgive me for reducing the discussion to anecdotes about a fish finger and a faulty kettle, but I think people are a lot stranger and more unpredictable than the universe is by a very, very large margin!! Yes, people witness things that cannot be readily explained, but people also come to conclusions based on their own understanding of situations and the evidence at hand.

My :2c: .

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Please don't misunderstand my comment.....I've got no problem with 'Non-Believers' posting in this thread, on the contrary I'd encourage it.

What I was suggesting was that if your only contribution was likely to amount to "I don't believe!", it's not going to further the discussion in any way.

Edited by Sgt.Squarehead
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For reading of what PRO have not put into the public domain this is the must read:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/books/bookreviews/7936744/The-Secret-State-Preparing-for-the-Worst-1945-2010-by-Peter-Hennessy-review.html

If the 'War Books' and ministerial memos from the Cold War are available for all, is there any rest?

Marty...

Edited by marty_hopkirk
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They never tell you everything. There was a wartime incident just up the coast from me. It was put under a 50 year blackout...that went to 70 years, now it's 100. One wonders if it will ever be released.

Returning to the Twin Bases, Officialdom swears there were no underground facilities, yet I work with one guy who wired the tunnels with 11,000 volt cables. The bases were connected by an underground roadway and a narrow gauge railway. It allowed the transfer of 'materials' without using public roads. There was a saying..What happens at Bentwaters, stays at Bentwaters...

It was a popular posting due to it's nearness to London, but there were those who viewed it with trepidation. It had a 'reputation' In Airforce circles. I knew one guy who worked underground there, who then did a tour at Area 51. He refuses to tell me anything as it would affect his Airforce pension, but he didn't deny anything either.

How many years did they deny Area 51 existed?

Just because people deny the existence of something doesn't make it so.

To quote from archeology.... Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

I have not yet seen anything of an 'unknown' nature, yet I do know several people who have.

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"Believing" or "Not-Believing" has little place in what should be a discussion about science and facts.

Isn't it a real shame that this topic gets more posts than a topic on actual REAL space related matters?

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To quote from archeology.... Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Granted... indeed most of the NO camp have already a agreed never say never approach... that is not the problem (as I see it)

The very absence of evidence of existance is a get out of jail free card... it means we are free to either believe ET aliens exist here and now on earth or alternativly to not believe they are here (until we experience such events for ourselves)...

My belief they are not here impacts in no way on others wish to believe the contary so why should my non belief be of such concern to those who wish to believe.

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