Il-28 Beagle 1/48; questions (HPH; Bobcat related)

[trimmer]

Not sure if that is what Tom was referring to, but UARAF Beagles wore no camo and were letter-coded, pic below

Eagles and Cobras on Il-28 would probably have no photo evidence and remain only in eyewitness memoirs

[Tiger331]

Not remotely. Toy imports (under which model kits fall) are not taxed coming into the US. It's 100% the doing of the importer.

OK……so why does my US-based modelling buddy get stung by US Customs pretty much every time I send him stuff (kits and accessories mainly of European origin) through the post, quite a lot of which is actually 'second hand'……sorry…..doesn't match up with your assertion.

[Tom Cooper]

Photos?????

A clear photo (from quite close up) was published in Arab MiGs Volume 2 - together with corresponding artwork.

Sorry that I'm not posting such stuff online: that marking was quite nice and so unique (and the photo such an - expensive - rarity), the internet would be full of it within an hour.

Anyway, the insignia in question was applied only on the left side of the front fuselage, behind the registration, i.e. nearly directly below the cockpit. That's why one can't see it on the photo posted by 'Trimmer' (which is showing the graduation ceremony of the Class '59 of UARAF Il-28 crews).

[exdraken]

A clear photo (from quite close up) was published in Arab MiGs Volume 2 - together with corresponding artwork.

Sorry that I'm not posting such stuff online: that marking was quite nice and so unique (and the photo such an - expensive - rarity), the internet would be full of it within an hour.

Anyway, the insignia in question was applied only on the left side of the front fuselage, behind the registration, i.e. nearly directly below the cockpit. That's why one can't see it on the photo posted by 'Trimmer' (which is showing the graduation ceremony of the Class '59 of UARAF Il-28 crews).

drawing on the bottom seems to be of the plane you mention:

http://www.harpia-publishing.com/index-ArabMiGsVol2.html#/16

looks like I have to invest in more books!

thanks for all the input!

Edited May 2, 2014 by exdraken

[Tom Cooper]

Ah yes, that's the one (I forgot about the 'back cover' of that volume).

Once you get a copy, the photo in question can be found in the final chapter of that book: between the discussion of all the possible Egyptian military failures prior to June 1967 War, there is a sub-chapter about Egyptian Il-28R ops over Israel, in 1958-1963 period.

[exdraken]

got the book (actually all 4 of them!) today!

wow, very informative and lots of interesting photos! will take me a while to read them though

found the picture(s) - great ones, and very tempting!

congratulations and thanks for the heads up

Werner

[Procopius]

OK……so why does my US-based modelling buddy get stung by US Customs pretty much every time I send him stuff (kits and accessories mainly of European origin) through the post, quite a lot of which is actually 'second hand'……sorry…..doesn't match up with your assertion.

What? I buy/trade from overseas into the USA all the time, and I've never had US customs hit me for anything at all, ever.

[Stashaholic Steve]

Love the Beagle. I fondly remember building the ancient Airfix 1/72 offering many many moons ago and being immensely proud of the all-over silver (!!) paintjob I bestowed upon it.

I'd actually be tempted to shell out for the HPH kit given that 1/48 is now my main scale for a/c, but I know that if I did, Sod's Law would come into force and a brand-new all-singing all-dancing kit in plastic would be announced for a quarter of the price within about 6 weeks. Have been stung like that a couple of times before.

[exdraken]

Love the Beagle. I fondly remember building the ancient Airfix 1/72 offering many many moons ago and being immensely proud of the all-over silver (!!) paintjob I bestowed upon it.

I'd actually be tempted to shell out for the HPH kit given that 1/48 is now my main scale for a/c, but I know that if I did, Sod's Law would come into force and a brand-new all-singing all-dancing kit in plastic would be announced for a quarter of the price within about 6 weeks. Have been stung like that a couple of times before.

my 2 cents on that:

thought so as well in the beginning, and waited for a year to buy the HPH kit.

but now as I have it, I cant think of any plastic injection manufacturer that would provide this level of detail! If you think of all the PE and highly detailed resin parts (cockpit, bomb bay, etc) you would probably pay the same for a lets say Trumpeter plastic kit in that size + 2 large Eduard PE frets plus a hypothetical Aires cockpit, and so on.....

I don't think that there will be a equally good but cheaper solution in the near future! I stand to be corrected! (and would happily go for a second of this beautiies!!

[Tom Cooper]

got the book (actually all 4 of them!) today!

wow, very informative and lots of interesting photos! will take me a while to read them though

found the picture(s) - great ones, and very tempting!

congratulations and thanks for the heads up

Werner

Thank you, Werner. Much appreciated.

We're really going to great extensions to reconstruct as much of the history of 'major' Arab air forces in that series of books. From my POV, they're something like 'all you always wanted to read about Arab air forces' - and I hope, you're going to find them enjoyable and informative reads.

[Diego]

As the Bobcat Model Beagle will be available very soon, I guess it would be useful to revive this very interesting IL-28 tread...

[jpk]

On 5/9/2014 at 3:44 PM, Procopius said:

What? I buy/trade from overseas into the USA all the time, and I've never had US customs hit me for anything at all, ever.

Same for me as well.

 

OOOOOPS, didn't notice the original post is five years old. 

Edited May 7, 2019 by jpk

[Antti_K]

On 5/7/2019 at 11:15 AM, Diego said:

As the Bobcat Model Beagle will be available very soon, I guess it would be useful to revive this very interesting IL-28 tread...

It seems that this is already available at Lucky Models. I have a personal connection with Il-28s so this is something I have been waiting for.

 

Antti

[Diego]

Here the link to the Bobcat Il-28 discussion on Rumourmonger with more data:

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234980747-148-ilyushin-il-28t-beagle-by-bobcat-hobby-model-kits-released-new-hi-decal/

 

Edited May 8, 2019 by Diego

[Antti_K]

Hello all,

 

someone mentioned in the Rumormonger about the tip tanks. It is true that Il-28R (R for rezhveshtija =reconnaissance) had them. But you have to check the engine nacelles as well: they are different in shape in R than in "pure" bomber version. The bomber had smaller main wheels and therefore slimmer nacelles. Look at the photo in post #78 and pay close attention to the area right aft of main gear well doors. There is a horizontal shadow visible indicating the bulged nacelle for larger main wheels. Unfortunately I couldn't convince myself looking at the photos of the sprues and prototype model. Is it the bomber version or the reconnaissance one? Hopefully the target towing equipment and/or cameras are included in the kit. For all those who wish to build their model in Finnish colours a 1/48 bicycle would be a nice addition. Once a bicycle was loaded in the bomb bay and the plane departed it's home base Utti in SE Finland for an air to air shooting camp at Oulu. The bicycle never made it. Once the bomb bay doors were opened after landing the bicycle was gone... There was a safety feature built into the system: if something fell against the bomb bay doors they opened and when the pressure was released the doors closed.

 

The aftermarket decals provide only one Finnish Air Force version (NH-1) which was a pure bomber without tip tanks.

 

One Finnish example carried for a while name "ILMAVOIMIEN CADILLAC" (Air Force Cadillac) on the nose. It would be lovely to see this available on aftermarket decals.

 

In the meanwhile I'll dig out the type rating course materials. Il-28 had only one complete manual for the export version: a hard bound A5 size book which was written in flawless Oxford English. But we didn't have many of those so the material I have is a folder full of schematics from the various original Soviet manuals. As the aircraft is still classified as secret(!) here in Finland I can only tell that we had more three but less than five Il-28s.

 

Antti

[Antti_K]

Hello Jordi,

 

and welcome aboard🙂 After the war my grandparents were planning that they should move to Canada but that never happened. Give my best wishes to you all (Terveisia Suomesta!)

 

I'm still eagerly waiting for the kit to be available here in Europe...

 

It's not those small fairings under the nacelles but the nacelle itself you should look at. Take a look at this picture of NH-4.

 

I have a set of very good three view drawings made here in Finland (and I trust on these ones; usually I don't). Those drawings illustrate the difference very well. I can try to measure the difference (the plans are in 1/72 scale) or scan the drawings for you.

 

I must check my library to find a photo of "ILMAVOIMIEN CADILLAC"; one photo was published in a book written by Jyrki Laukkanen. When I find it you will have it.

 

Kind Regards,

Antti

 

 

[Antti_K]

Here is another one for comparison; the bomber version:

 

 

Antti

[Antti_K]

Ole hyva vaan Jordi🙂

 

I'm thinking of a same kind of solution with the nacelles. I haven't even thought about the gear bay doors yet; they are bigger as well. That's why those bulges exist. Possibly some Plasticard and sanding. Somehow the reconnaissance version is more tempting (NH-2, 3 or 4).

 

I will search my books and archives tonight for further info. Stay tuned.

 

Antti

[Antti_K]

Huomenta Jordi,

 

wow that's beautiful artwork! I found the books and almost all the type rating course material last night. One photo shows the text "ILMAVOIMIEN CADILLAC" on NH-3. As usual such a decoration was short lived. Officially no personal markings are allowed in Finnish Air Force planes.

 

Have you decided which aircraft you are going to model?

 

Cheers,

Antti

[Antti_K]

Hello Jordi,

 

only NH-4 never carried Day-Glo markings; only the red "International Target Towing Insignia" on the fin. NH-4 was used exclusively for reconnaissance work and aerial mapping. She carried an extra oblique camera in the rear fuselage for those duties.

 

During the early years Finnish Nikitas had their wing tips and engine front cowlings (called "kapokki" by squadron personnel) painted using exactly the same orange paint that the Finnish mail service used on letter boxes! Day-Glo paint came later. I have a photo of NH-2 in this paint scheme. NH-2 had also Finnish roundels painted in the Soviet Union during a major overhaul (the planes returned to the factory every 500 flying hours) that were huge and the proportions were completely incorrect. In the mean while start looking for a tin of US Interior Green as all crew compartments were painted with similar colour. Those fabric thermal insulation blankets were gray green. Landing gear bays were "dirty buff" coloured in NH-1 and NH-3 and dirty orange in NH-4.

 

I'll post some pictures when we got our scanner working again (hopefully before Friday).

 

Cheers,

Antti

[Antti_K]

Terve Jordi,

 

yes those bulges appear on both sides of the engine gondola.

 

Our scanner is working again. So here is some photos for you:

 

 

Here is the view from "the Most Important Seat in the House"; looks like there is a trainee navigator aboard! One bang seat, two aviators... Original photo credit: Matti Turunen.

 

 

Looking into the navigator's compartment. The Soviet era PSBN-M radar's scope dominates the view. Note that navigator's seat carries stencils in English.

 

 

Navigators instrument panel on the port side wall. There is also a folded plotting table made of transparent plexi glass (Not visible in the picture). To the right are the arming switches for bombs.

 

 

View looking forward. Only the Soviet made optical bomb sight is in place. The "cradle" immediately to the left is for a "Norden" bomb sight. Quite often the navigator carried and operated also a Vinten F95 reconnaissance camera. No mountings for that but that isn't a problem as F95 can easily be operated by hand.

 

 

Pilot's instrument panel. The VOR/ILS was added in Finland. Note also the different shades of "Soviet Interior Green".

 

 

Pilot's port side panel. Some switches carry English captions, some Russian.

 

 

Pilot's starboard side panel.

 

 

Gunner's station.

 

 

An armourer at work with the 23 mm rear guns. Sometimes they were carried along with the target towing equipment sometimes weren't.

 

 

Assembling the port gun. Note that only the bomber version carried guns on both sides of the nose! No navigator wanted to have a 23 mm cannon by their side on the starboard side either: imagine if there were an unintended detonation 20 cm away from your thigh... All these photos came from type rating course training material.

 

 

Last but not least: "ILMAVOIMIEN CADILLAC" a short lived name on NH-3.

 

Cheers,

Antti

[Diego]

Hi Antti,

Thank you very much for sharing these treasures!

Such high quality color pics of interiors of Il-28s are extremely rare! 

Most museum examples have their cockpits in a bad state....if any.

Greetings

Diego

Edited May 16, 2019 by Diego

[Diego]

5 hours ago, Jordi said:

Interesting that apparently not all Il-28Rs had the bulged nacelles, and presumably the larger wheels with the hydraulic “spin up” motors..

 

 

Hi Jordi,

In this case, the answer is simple, but could be a bit surprizing: This is not a recce Il-28R, but an ELINT version Il-28 RTR, with electronic equipment installed in wingtip pods similar to the tip tanks used by the R to carry fuel. Therefore, this version didn't have the larger wheels nor bulged nacelles, as there were no weight increase compared to the bombers...but anyway, your observation was spot on.

[BTW, the official description of the pic is not quite correct, as the IL-28 RT ( another ELINT variant) has no "tip tank pods" but two identical belly radomes, one of them above the bomb bay doors. See the Hungarian "red 19" on the HD48036 decal set for more details. ]

Greetings

Diego

Edited May 17, 2019 by Diego

[Antti_K]

Hello guys,

 

those tip tanks in the photo are different in shape than the actual fuel tanks used in R models. Tip tanks have more pointed tips in R models. All four Il-28s here in Finland had the "spin-up" motors, so these were installed at least to some bomber variants. I can't remember whether they were hydraulic or pneumatic. Wheel brakes were pneumatic and because of that and the long air pipes one should start applying brake pressure well in advance. And still there were mishaps.

 

I have both close up photos and three view drawings of the towing equipment. I will post them later today. I'm going to scratch build that huge Soviet target kite as well. It was roughly the size of a J35 Draken or Mirage III! And very much hated by air crews...

 

Cheers,

Antti

[Antti_K]

Hello Jordi, Diego & Co.,

 

here are some more scans, mainly from the course material. Original Soviet drawings...

 

Let's start with general aircraft information. These two pictures give you the fuselage dimensions in millimeters (one inch = 25,4 millimeters). They also give information about the AFA camera equipment locations; both for day and night photography. To my knowledge magnesium flash bombs were used only once and scared people were calling at the Finnish ACC with UFO sightings! The Air Force decided not to use the bombs again.

 

 

 

A fellow IPMS member Veikko Siirilä drew three view images of the NH some 30 years ago. I still consider them to be among the most accurate ones. Note especially the target towing "tail" and those bulges on Il-28R's engine gondolas.

 

 

 

 

Nose and main gear information:

 

 

 

 

Either optical sight or radar sighting is used for photography. Here is the original Soviet optical sight (and very high quality one as are all Soviet / Russian military optics).

 

 

The original AFA cameras were used in Finland although they weren't a match for the Swiss WILD HEERBRUGG -cameras (like RC-10 or RC-20).

 

 

And the same camera this time without of the cover.

 

 

And finally some aircraft interiors: the navigators and gunner's compartments.

 

 

 

Kind Regards,

Antti