Airfix old and new tooling list?

[Rick Brown]

Chaps.

I've been pondering this for a while now.

Is there a definitive list of Airfix kit numbers that show the old and new toolings?

For instance, what's the old Gnat and new Gnat numbers?

That sort of thing.

Rick.

[Richard M]

The Airfix Tribute Forum Airfix kit list has all the details of all the kits indexed;

http://airfixtributeforum.myfastforum.org/viewforum.php?f=71

There's also a master list of all Airfix releases - credited to Richard Humm, with contributions from Steven Pietrobon, Mario Wens and Claus Wilker.

http://www.sworld.com.au/steven/models/Airfix%20Kit%20List.txt

Edited November 24, 2013 by Richard M

[robvulcan]

I wondered this too you think they would put on the new red boxes "NEW TOOLING!!" surely its a selling point after all.

[Rick Brown]

I wondered this too you think they would put on the new red boxes "NEW TOOLING!!" surely its a selling point after all.

Nah, they wanna sell the old stuff too!

Rick.

The Airfix Tribute Forum Airfix kit list has all the details of all the kits indexed;

http://airfixtributeforum.myfastforum.org/viewforum.php?f=71

There's also a master list of all Airfix releases - credited to Richard Humm, with contributions from Steven Pietrobon, Mario Wens and Claus Wilker.

http://www.sworld.com.au/steven/models/Airfix%20Kit%20List.txt

Cheers for that Richard,

I'll have a gander later.

Rick.

[robvulcan]

Good point I will happily buy the old stuff but we all know there are some who wont touch em.

I must admit its worked on me I have bought a kit thinking it might be a new tool as its in a red box opening it and discovered its the old mould. Not disapointed either. I love airfix kits even the old ones with the raised lines as you can sand these off and get a good look still.

For some planes it actually gives a better result.

I hope we get a new tool 1/72 Buccaneer soon.

[Rick Brown]

I agree Rob, I don't mind any of their kits really.

it's nice to know which to look out for when wanting a new tooling though..

Rick.

[robvulcan]

I agree and their new toolings are just magic in my opinion especially at the price they are. I am very impressed with the 1/48 Spitfire MKXII I picked up the other day. Gorgeous moldings. Can't wait to see her complete.

[Rick Brown]

I agree and their new toolings are just magic in my opinion especially at the price they are. I am very impressed with the 1/48 Spitfire MKXII I picked up the other day. Gorgeous moldings. Can't wait to see her complete.

I picked one up early this year. It's in the "To Do Before I Die" pile.

Rick.

[JBOHMSS]

I baulk at most of Airfix's old tooled models. Their Spitfire Mk IX was horrendous even when it first came out. Matchbox came along and knocked socks off the Airfix effort at the time. And the old Lancaster while being an innovative kit from nearly half a century ago is best left as a collectors piece. In fact the Vulcan is a little tired.

It's a tough choice of what to re tool and what not to, but there is a huge amount that should be left out of production until new tooling has taken place. Many of these old Airfix kits should be put into a nostalgia section of the Airfix catalgue.

[Rick Brown]

Kinda catch 22 for them I guess. They need to shift stuff to produce stuff. As the new tooling stuff sells they can make new tooling etc etc. Can't blame them at the end of the day, they aren't a charity but a business after all.

It's up to us to find the better ones. This is where BritModeller comes in..........

Rick.

[cmatthewbacon]

Their Spitfire Mk IX was horrendous even when it first came out. Matchbox came along and knocked socks off the Airfix effort at the time. And the old Lancaster while being an innovative kit from nearly half a century ago is best left as a collectors piece.

Well, since the Spitfire IX "first came out" in 1959, the competition wasn't up to much, and it was the best part of 20 years later when Matchbox "came along" with theirs. About the same time as AIrfix released their Vb, which was the most accurately shaped 1/72 Spitfire for ANOTHER nearly-40 years. The "old Lancaster" was not the OLDEST Lancaster, which was released in 1958, and there were plenty of Lancaster buffs who still rated the 70s AIrfix kit over the Hasegawa and Revell alternatives in recent years. The Vulcan, I'll agree, could have been better.

But there are plenty of older tools that are still "good enough", given that you can't retool the whole range overnight, and as Rick says, they need to keep selling to fund the new tools...

bestest,

M.

[Shane]

The "old Lancaster" was not the OLDEST Lancaster, which was released in 1958, and there were plenty of Lancaster buffs who still rated the 70s AIrfix kit over the Hasegawa and Revell alternatives in recent years.

FWIW, I believe that the second Lancaster mould was released in 1980, though I suppose it is close to the seventies. Agree entirely with your assesments otherwise

Shane

[JBOHMSS]

The majority of the Airfix back catalogue is not really "good enough" now...I understand the concept about selling the old stuff to produce the new...well actually how many of us will go ahead and buy the old stuff to pay for the production of the new? Is there anyone here that will buy a ton of Airfix kits that are now extremely dated just to pay for production for a new tool? I don't think so. I want a new tool Blenheim? Will I buy a ton of the old stuff to ensure the future of Airfix.

I'll be honest.

Nope!

Certainly that was the case at my local modelzone's.

Airfix's Spit MkIX when it came out was the only kid on the block but when Matchbox came on the scene it was a dream come true for Spit fan's. The Mk I Spit in 1/24 still has issues and needs new tooling will it be popular if it was retooled? Not sure. We can have these debates all over. I recently helped a neighbor with his latest cast Airfix Spit MkI - Maybe I am being snobbish but the age is very definitely showing, it needs a lot of reworking.

I do feel that the Airfix back catalogue needs to be labeled as the nostalgia series now. It would give those unsuspecting newbies a chance to realise that the kit they would be getting dates back to the time of the Cuban Revolution and the Viet Nam War.

And I think I am safe in saying that when we didn't have the choice we would buy what was on the market...but if you have the choice of a Monogram/Revell 1/48 Corsair or a Tamiya/Hasegawa or any other state of the art manufacturer - there will be some that are bloody minded enough to get the old kit from those good old days and correct any defects and scratch build to make a point but most modellers even those who have too many years to discuss that make us appear cave man like still like to have a model that goes together with the least amount of filler and as much ease as possible.

My ceiling was covered in drawing pins with the majority of the Airfix catalogue hanging from thread. Ah long lost days of boys own adventure...nowadays I have a choice because the market has expanded with many manufacturers - I am not limited to Airfix, Frog, Revell or Monogram. Back in the day yes they were a source for our hobby but they rested on their laurels and did not keep up with the requirements of modellers. The quest for more accurate details. It is only since Hornby took over Airfix that the ante has been upped...Airfix did some miraculous things in 1/48 with the original Seafire, their Mosquito was sublime.

I applaud Airfix with their new releases (well most of them), but I do feel that by boxing their old and new in the same livery that some who buy X and do not realise the tooling is 50 years old or dates to the original release should be warned.

The 1/72 Hercules was an amazing model when released, but would any experienced modeler buy that kit against the later Italeri kits? Not unless it was as a collectors kit to stay in the box.

[cmatthewbacon]

And your new tool Blenheim will probably end up coming from Special Hobby or Sword and look great in the box but be a dog to put together and fit all the beautiful resin parts into without grinding them and the plastic bits paper thin, or it'll come from Hasegawa and cost £37.99, or just maybe from Trumpeter and have rivet holes all over it and be slightly, but irritatingly, inaccurate. There are a bunch of things in the Airfix "back catalogue" which are widely available and relatively cheap, that currently don't have any real alternative. Sure, plenty of them could be replaced, but realistically, Airfix is never going to re-tool the _entire_ breadth of back catalogue that the have, so it's going to be the ones with the best commercial prospects today that get done first -- a simple matter of return on tooling investment. If you want a Battle, Defiant or Blenheim in 1/72, then the Airfix ones are the ones that are around nearby. Sure, maybe they _could_ describe them as "Classic Kits" and have different packaging, but where do you draw the line? We could argue all night about what proportion of the AIrfix back catalogue is "beyond the pale", but the real question is how much is OK or Good enough, and has no real alternative? If those kits do sell enough, then they'll become candidates for a retool. This is a case, after all, where a Blenheim in Special Hobby's catalogue makes no money for Airfix...

You pays your money and takes your choice. If you don't want to buy Airfix Blenheim's to fund the new-tool Hunter or Corsair (or even defiant) then don't...

(and don't forget, Airfix's sales figures don't come from "experienced modellers")

bestest,

M.

[Black Knight]

x

Edited November 28, 2013 by Black Knight

[Test Graham]

A few points. It wasn't the Airfix Mk.Vb that was so excellent but the Mk.I. The Mk.Vb had (and still has, being re-released fairly recently) its share of problems, at least with the wing. As indeed did the Matchbox Spitfire, which although an improvement over the (then) 15-year old Airfix was a disappointment requiring a lot of work (and combining with a Frog one) to be as good as claimed above.

There are a lot of new Airfix tooling in end-opening boxes, in the bottom range. The larger or at least expensive kits always did come in lift-off boxes, as they do now, new tooling or old.

Although it may not the experienced modellers who buy the majority of Airfix kits - although a much higher proportion than in the past - it is only the experienced and nostalgic modeller who will cope with badly fitting parts. The experienced modeller may well be the only one who complains about the accuracy of these old kits, but it is a new modeller who suffers most from crudity and poor fit. The main problem with continual churning is not the unhappy oldtimer (who knows enough to go elsewhere) but the newcomer who does not stay long enough in the hobby to learn the difference. Thankfully we can now see (as said above) a considerable improvement in the average level of Airfix kits, something which can only continue with all our blessings.

Who knows? Maybe when they have exhausted all the iconic subjects - and there are still quite a few to go - then we'll see something a little more exotic.

[Rick Brown]

You leave a topic alone for a few minutes and look what happens.............!

Lol.

Interesting comments all round.

Rick.

[JBOHMSS]

Although it may not the experienced modellers who buy the majority of Airfix kits - although a much higher proportion than in the past - it is only the experienced and nostalgic modeller who will cope with badly fitting parts.

This is an excellent point from Graham.

And this is precisely why Airfix need to address the old catalogue. Us experienced modellers will not go and buy the back catalogue becuase of the crudity of the kit. There might be no other alternatives but would we really go and buy a Defiant that is rough?

The answer is above - the experienced and nostalgic modeller who will cope with the bad fit.

You pays your money you takes your choice - I would wager that there are only a few who want such a defiant. This comes down to the commercial success factor - I would wager that the defiant is not up there on many wants list. I maybe wrong. But I'd say that re tooled Spitfires and ME109's will prevail...Airfix filled gaps many years ago but those gaps now are filled with old crude kits that surely need to be taken out of the catalogue and replaced or renewed. If I want an FW190 I'd rather spend double and get a kit that is better quality than have something that now represents half hearted attempts at production. Age is not kind to these nostalgic kits...and the same can be said for Tamiya, Monogram, REvell and many more. But the joker there is Tamiya who do replace and renew and regularly.

[cmatthewbacon]

So our considered advice to Airfix is to cull all their old tools, which would reduce their range dramatically, and shift the balance toward smaller, cheaper, and less profitable kits? How is that going to increase the chance of us "experienced modellers" getting the new-tool 1/48 Scimitar or 1/24th Defiant that we so richly deserve? Perhaps the less experienced modellers don't really care too much about ill-fitting pats (I certainly didn't as a kit -- just put a bit more glue on, eh?), but would actually rather like to get their hands on a Buccaneer, Catalina, Stirling or Mitsubishi Dinah in their local model shop/hobby store/Argos/WH Smiths...

bestest,

M.

[cmatthewbacon]

It wasn't the Airfix Mk.Vb that was so excellent but the Mk.I. The Mk.Vb had (and still has, being re-released fairly recently) its share of problems, at least with the wing.

I think you'll have to enlighten me, Graham -- I thought that the Mk 1 came from the same masters. I've got both in the stash, and as far as I can see, the fuselages are identical, and the Mk1 wing upper surface sits perfectly happily on the Vb lower surface. What are the shape problems with the Vb that were corrected in the Mk 1?

bestest,

M.

[JBOHMSS]

The Mk 1 was the first with the Vb coming along from the same tooling.

The point is that the Airfix back catalogue does not sell - witness all the left over stock in Model Zone. And the experienced modellers leave the Airfix back catalogue alone. The new modellers and kids do not buy again if their first experience is not good.

[Richard M]

The Mk 1 was the first with the Vb coming along from the same tooling.

The point is that the Airfix back catalogue does not sell - witness all the left over stock in Model Zone. And the experienced modellers leave the Airfix back catalogue alone. The new modellers and kids do not buy again if their first experience is not good.

I'd love to see the empirical data you have to support those statements.

[Nigel Heath]

I certainly didn't as a kit

You were a kit? Cat or model?

I think I align with most of what JBOHMSS says. Caveat emptor - I do not want but old toolings - I have enough of them in the stash already so I do a little research before buying a new kit. Most of it gleaned from the wise members of BM. I can also see the point of novice modellers being put off the hobby by an old kit.

Edited November 28, 2013 by Nigel Heath

[JBOHMSS]

As for a 1/24th Defiant - that is one I would avoid and I do feel that a good few would avoid such a kit. The Defiant was not as prolific as the Spit, Hurricane, Typhoon - in fact if I were looking at the next 1/24th subject I'd probably be looking at an ME 262 - a very viable commercially accepted model in all other scales.

[JBOHMSS]

The data is not so much on paper but physical - ask your model shop owners and look at the stock. I like most of you I am sure got on well with my local Model Zone - indeed before it was Model Zone and Model Time in Croydon and talking to the manager Airfix was not the go to kit manufacturers. Airfix would stay on the shelves and stay on the shelves and become dead money on the shelves when Hasegawa, Fuji, Dragon, Trumpeter and all the rest sold quickly leaving Airfix on the shelves.

At Telford looking at the second hand kit sellers what was mostly there? Airfix back catalogue.