11 squadron RAF SEAC Hurricane in Burma

[shoey]

Hi there,

Does anyone have any information on what colours and markings (and what version hurricane) would have applied to XI squadron hurricanes in Burma? My grandfather flew and won the DFC so I would like more info on the plane he would have flown.

Thanks in advance

[Edgar]

According to Rawlings 11 Squadron flew the IIc, and only used single letters on their aircraft, e.g. HV744 "A."

Give me a surname (privately, if you wish,) and I can check on his airframe(s,) in the ORB, during a future Kew visit.

Edgar

Edited November 19, 2013 by Edgar

[Steven]

Hi there,

Does anyone have any information on what colours and markings (and what version hurricane) would have applied to XI squadron hurricanes in Burma? My grandfather flew and won the DFC so I would like more info on the plane he would have flown.

Thanks in advance

[Steven]

Hi, I am also trying to find information about 11 squadron as my Great Uncle who is now 91 flew Hurricanes and Spitfires and was also in Burma.

I have a some photos and a couple are of Hurricanes. I will post them later.

I would be interested in any info you have, I have borrowed his flight logs you never know they may have known each other..

Regards Steven

[shoey]

According to Rawlings 11 Squadron flew the IIc, and only used single letters on their aircraft, e.g. HV744 "A."

Give me a surname (privately, if you wish,) and I can check on his airframe(s,) in the ORB, during a future Kew visit.

Edgar

Thanks a lot Edgar, my grandfathers name is Ronald Harry Gibson and is an Australian but flew in the RAF. I think there were a few Canadians and Kiwi's as well in 11 squadron RAF. I have his main Hurricane rego.. it is LD859 which was his plane painted with the "Bucanneer Pirate" on the cowling ( see photos) I don't know what Letter would have been on his plane which I would be keen to know, as well as where and what colour it would have been. Also keen to find out what other markings would have been on his plane. Any info would be greatly appreciated! Although not a plastic kit, the plane I have made is a flying RC version of his plane and I want to make it more scale and realistic. Papa is still alive and I want him to see the Hurri fly once again in all its former Livery

Hi, I am also trying to find information about 11 squadron as my Great Uncle who is now 91 flew Hurricanes and Spitfires and was also in Burma.

I have a some photos and a couple are of Hurricanes. I will post them later.

I would be interested in any info you have, I have borrowed his flight logs you never know they may have known each other..

Regards Steven

Hi steven,

What is your great uncle's name and where is he from? I'll ask my grandfather if he knows him! He is a couple of years older than your great uncle!

I'll post some photos of what I have of the Hurri too

[Test Graham]

Hurricanes in Burma were painted Dark Green and Dark Earth, with Medium Sea Grey undersides. From January 1945 they will have carried white bands on the wings, tailplanes and fin. You don't quote a date, but these bands should be readily visible. The squadron will have been used in the Hurribomber role with (normally) 2x250lb bombs under the wings. 500lb bombs are a possible alternative. Spinner colour may have varied with the unit, as it did with Spitfires.

[Edgar]

LD859 is listed as "V."

Edgar

[Kallisti]

Check out my Hurricane IIc from 5 Sqn SEAC for an exampel of the camo and colour scheme of Hurricanes in Burma:

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=234935554 (RFI)

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=234934871 (Build thread)

Edited November 20, 2013 by Kallisti

[shoey]

here is my model so far - might need to do a repaint to change the grey to brown... what do people think?

Here is my grand fathers hurricane...

Edited November 20, 2013 by shoey

[Kallisti]

Yup is should be green and dark earth and the roundels should be a small pale blue inner circle with a thicker dark blue outer band

[shoey]

Yup is should be green and dark earth and the roundels should be a small pale blue inner circle with a thicker dark blue outer band

Thanks Kallisti,

Ill have a look through your build log to get the exact colours you used. Do you think an 11 squadron hurri bomber in 1944 would have been identical to your model (apart from the serials?) There is not much info that I can find on 11 squadron hurries in Burma

Cheers.

Ps I made this RC model about 6 years ago as my first build - I am much better at the scale details now so that is why I'm doing the overhaul! Any more info would be great!

[Kallisti]

Pretty much - I used a faded mix of the standard Dark Earth and RAF Dark green to represent the sun bleaching effect.

I've just checked my references and the book "The Air Battle of Imphal" by Norman Franks does mention your Grandfather by name, describing an incident on 25th April 1944 where he and Flt Lt CGH Ditmas escorted a Sqn Ldr R Lane from the Aberdeen airstrip back to Imphal, but during the flight R Lane's Hurricane developed a glycol leak and he force-landed just east of the Chindwin River. He survived the landing but was captured by the Japanese and was killed the following day. Your Grandfather and the other pilot searched for the downed aircraft until lack of fuel forced them to return to Imphal.

[shoey]

Pretty much - I used a faded mix of the standard Dark Earth and RAF Dark green to represent the sun bleaching effect.

I've just checked my references and the book "The Air Battle of Imphal" by Norman Franks does mention your Grandfather by name, describing an incident on 25th April 1944 where he and Flt Lt CGH Ditmas escorted a Sqn Ldr R Lane from the Aberdeen airstrip back to Imphal, but during the flight R Lane's Hurricane developed a glycol leak and he force-landed just east of the Chindwin River. He survived the landing but was captured by the Japanese and was killed the following day. Your Grandfather and the other pilot searched for the downed aircraft until lack of fuel forced them to return to Imphal.

Funny, I was just reading that very same book last night to try to get info on the hurricane!!! Papa wrote some memoirs of Burma a few years back which I collated on the computer, and he made mention of men like your father who worked tirelessly on the planes, all night if needed, to get the planes ready for flying the next day. If you PM me your email I can send an electronic book of his memoirs of life in Burma if you like. Might get some more insight of what your dad went through.

[Nick Millman]

Great photos. Under surfaces probably Sky Blue rather than Sea Grey, Medium.

Nick

[shoey]

Great photos. Under surfaces probably Sky Blue rather than Sea Grey, Medium.

Nick

Thanks Nick,

So you think undersurface sky blue with camo dark green and dark earth? What colour do you think the Letter on the side of the fuse would be? Any info to get the plane as accurate as possible would be greatly appreciated!

Cheers

Sandy

[Nick Millman]

That's it. Code letters were supposed to be painted in "duck egg blue" from 30 April 1943 but in practice in SEAC they seem to have been painted in sky blue shades or the so-called "India white" - the mix of four parts white to one part blue - that can both look "white" in photographs.

Nick

[shoey]

That's it. Code letters were supposed to be painted in "duck egg blue" from 30 April 1943 but in practice in SEAC they seem to have been painted in sky blue shades or the so-called "India white" - the mix of four parts white to one part blue - that can both look "white" in photographs.

Nick

Wow, you seem to know your stuff when it comes to SEAC! Is this a favourite theatre of yours? Thanks for the advice.

Cant wait to make the Hurri look more authentic

[Anders_Isaksson]

Yup is should be green and dark earth and the roundels should be a small pale blue inner circle with a thicker dark blue outer band

Hope it's ok I add to this thread with a question:

The old 1/72nd Heller kit has the option for a Hurricane painted in the dark green/extra dark sea grey (I may be wrong on the exact shade of grey here) camouflage.

http://www.atpkits.com/index.php?main_page=popup_image&pID=831&zenid=2d9c4f6d96f6a2fd570f3f47e6714998

Is the paintscheme pictured on the boxtop considered incorrect, and should it actually be dark green/dark earth instead?

It is one of my favourite Hurricane schemes so I got curious about the camouflage.

Thanks in advance for any input on this.

[shoey]

Hope it's ok I add to this thread with a question:

The old 1/72nd Heller kit has the option for a Hurricane painted in the dark green/extra dark sea grey (I may be wrong on the exact shade of grey here) camouflage.

http://www.atpkits.com/index.php?main_page=popup_image&pID=831&zenid=2d9c4f6d96f6a2fd570f3f47e6714998

Is the paintscheme pictured on the boxtop considered incorrect, and should it actually be dark green/dark earth instead?

It is one of my favourite Hurricane schemes so I got curious about the camouflage.

Thanks in advance for any input on this.

Not at all Anders!

I too was wondering where people got the information from that the planes would have been green and brown rather than grey and green. I noticed the hurricane "the last of the many" has now been repainted in SEAC camo, and it appears to be grey and green. Also the a historian that I sourced for info before I painted my model a few years back seemed to think they would have been grey and green as well.

Not saying anyone is right or wrong, but where did people get their info from about what colour they thought it should be? Look forward to peoples replies!

[Test Graham]

Yes, it is considered incorrect. This was long thought to be the scheme, in the lack of the official instructions and colour photos from the region. You will find this quoted in older references - although as you suspect Ocean Grey not EDSG. There are some photos which suggest otherwise, and even some veterans. However, the evidence gathered by Geoff Thomas and others, including the official instructions, show that the official scheme was Dark Green and Dark Earth over Medium Sea Grey. These intructions are reprinted in his book "The Eyes of the Phoenix". Sky Blue is certainly a more interesting colour for the undersides, and thought to have been widely used on overseas fighters, but documentary evidence of its use appears to be slim. Perhaps Nick can quote otherwise, and give some wider brief on the use of the two colours, which when and where?

Jeff Ethell's photo collection "WWII Pacific War Eagles" does include a colour photo of a SEAC Hurricane. The uppersurface colours are clearly green and brown rather than green and grey. Sadly the undersides are not so distinct, but appears to me that MSG is more likely.

[Edgar]

According to a late-1944 report, by a senior staff member of I.C.I., in March 1944 India H.Q. issued an order that upper surfaces, on day bombers and fighters, should be painted green/brown.

Edgar

[Test Graham]

The correct title of Thomas's book is Eyes For the Phoenix. Appendix 4 is a facsimile of Order A.F.O.(I.) 69-76 concerning Camouflage and markings, 4th April 1944. The appropriate paragraph is

(ii) All Fighter Aircraft will be camouflaged in accordance with the temperate land scheme as follows:-

Upper Surfaces - Dark green and dark earth

Under Surfaces - Medium sea grey

Tactical Markings - Nil

Code Letters - Sky

Italics and capitals as original.

[shoey]

LD859 is listed as "V."

Edgar

The correct title of Thomas's book is Eyes For the Phoenix. Appendix 4 is a facsimile of Order A.F.O.(I.) 69-76 concerning Camouflage and markings, 4th April 1944. The appropriate paragraph is

(ii) All Fighter Aircraft will be camouflaged in accordance with the temperate land scheme as follows:-

Upper Surfaces - Dark green and dark earth

Under Surfaces - Medium sea grey

Tactical Markings - Nil

Code Letters - Sky

Italics and capitals as original.

Thanks a lot for your replies and clarifications guys. So from the above two quotes is the "V" that is associated with my grandfathers plane considered a "code letter"

In other words on the side of his fuselage would have there been the roundel, then a "V" in sky blue and then his aircraft rego "LD859" in black? unfortunately all the photos I have of his plane are the front, and he is now 92 years old, and although still relatively sharp, cant remember details like that.

[Troy Smith]

Jeff Ethell's photo collection "WWII Pacific War Eagles" does include a colour photo of a SEAC Hurricane. The uppersurface colours are clearly green and brown rather than green and grey. Sadly the undersides are not so distinct, but appears to me that MSG is more likely.

this one?

from Etienne's flickr, not that clear but hopefully of use.

[Kallisti]

Ahh but in the black and white photos, you can obviously tell that the colour scheme is green and brown

Okay okay don't jump down my throat, I'm just taking the mickey out of other threads where discussions descend to that level of nit-pickery... I've got a couple of references that describe green/brown as the colour scheme, however that doesn't mean that they were ALL that colour as this was a long way from home so frequently air crews would work with whatever was to hand.

I'll try to find the exact refs when I get home later today.