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stevehnz

Mig-15 korean War camo colours

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Thanks for your reply, Serge.

So, if I try to summarize, because of the lack of time, you guys were 'feeding' info to Igor, unless you 'parted for differences in methodology'?

Must've been quite a 'transfer of know-how'... :yikes:

That said, his books like this one Sovyetskiye Assi Koreyskoy Boyni (see the link also for plenty of additional interesting artworks) - are really massive, and definitely full of in-depth information. On the basis of some of the photos I've seen in them (classic example would be application of camo on 'Red 325'), they not only contain much additional info, but also colour references and artworks that are much more precise than in Yury's book done for Osprey (no pun intended). Together with Igor's care to cite sources of reference in endnotes (quite 'Western/schoolar' method, so to say), and his care to mention relevant orders about camo, markings etc, such 'details' were was what led to my conclusion that Igor is quite 'unbeatable' in this regards.

Anyway, if you find some time, I would appreciate it very much if either you or Yury would be so kind to address other of my questions from above.

Edited by Tom Cooper

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Hi Tom,
Please don't get me wrong. I don't want to say Igor never read any archival documents. Yes he read. Some of them in form of citations and digests were handed over by Leonid Krylov and, I suppose, by another researcher from Krasnodar which did work in TsAMO.
Also there was a joint Soviet-American commission which worked here in Moscow in early 1990s having aim to find any info about the american airmen listed as POW and MIA. Mr Danz Blasser who headed the american part of that commission was able to get a huge batch of photocopies of our archival files. A citations from those files were published in the Internet. As far as I know, Igor read them also.
But he didn't work in archive himself, hence he just couldn't choose which documents to read. And there were nothing about MiGs camouflaging in documents which he read. That's why it's mistake to think his statements about MiG colours are supported by the TsAMO documents.
That's what I meant when said Igor never worked in the archive. I didn't want to say he was a liar or something similar. He interviewed dozens of our veterans and this work just can't be overestimated.
And do believe me, I didn't intend to discuss our relationships or split at all.

On one side, it appears 'incredible' to me to hear explanations like 'use whatever colours you like'

Why not? Paints were supplied in basic colours and have to be mixed to obtain camo colours. They, for example, had to mix green with black or brown - or with both - to get dark green. But as we don't know ratios we can say nothing about exact shade of that dark green. So nobody can say a modeller is wrong.

Finally, if it was so that pilot's wish to apply a kill marking 'didn't matter', that only kill markings 'authorized' by division CO's were applied, and since it was already then known that quite a few people were exaggerating with their claims....what am I missing here: how comes there were two types of kill markings ('full', for 'confirmed' kills, and 'outline' for 'probables')?

There wasn't such category as 'probables' in the VVS. Pilot's claim could only be confirmed as "sbityy" (shot down, killed) or "podbityy" (damaged). The outlines were for "damages", not for "probables".

I'll try to answer your other questions later.

Edited by Yury Tepsurkaev

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Very nice. I'm looking forward for your other answers (and, I guess, not only I).

Meanwhile, let me address the 'core' issue again:

Why not? Paints were supplied in basic colours and have to be mixed to obtain camo colours. They, for example, had to mix green with black or brown - or with both - to get dark green. But as we don't know ratios we can say nothing about exact shade of that dark green. So nobody can say a modeller is wrong.
OK, let me specify and, I hope so, provide some help.
One might wonder, 'why should it be important to know the precise green colour [or any other shade] applied on V-VS/V-PVO MiG-15s deployed during Korean War'?
Well, one of reasons I really love modell-builders - and I stress here: 'enthusiasts', modell-builders that usually have no 'academic historian' background - is that there are plenty of them who are so damn precise in their work, in their search for reference materials. They are so much striving to 'produce' an as authentic modell as humanly possible, that without them we all would simply be clueless in the case of a huge number of topics. They are not only a fantastic source of information, but also so often 'driving' and motivating me to do additional research, that it's amazing. From my standpoint, it's beyond doubt that 'modelling' is often developing into an outright sort of science, meanwhile - and whether the 'true' academics might like this or not (that said, most of academic historians have no clue even about what a 'MiG-15' looks like).
This is not exclusively related to colour references, but to plenty of other issues too (just one of newest examples: I would never came to the idea that the ex-Queen Flight's Andover CC.Mk 2 was used to support Franco-Belgian mercenaries fighitng for Mobutu against Rwandan-led invasion of former Zaire, in 1996-1997 - without an 'enthusiast' like Phil Scoggins)
Related to this is the following fact: it is such 'enthusiasts' - 'modellers' - that we can thank for 'discovering' that for most of the 20th Century, the Soviet Union was using the so-called 'British Standard 381C' in production of its military-related paints. Definitely, this 'BS381C', not some 'own' tables, not the German RAL, or the US Federal Standard.
Why is this 'known' or anything like 'sure'?
That's thanks to several former employees of the Israeli Aircraft Industries. The gents in question have had the opportunity to compare various colour tables (US 'FS', 'BS381C' etc.) with original colours applied on various MiG-21s that were overhauled by the IAI in the 1990s. That's why gents (and modellers) like Yoav Efrati for example (guess, many here might know him for his fantastic features on Israeli combat aircraft in various modeller magazines), were extremely helpful in preparation of - very precise - colour references that one can meanwhile find in books like the Arab MiGs and African MiGs series.
Now, you might wonder why would any of African or Arab MiGs be 'imporant' in relation to Soviet MiG-15s from Korea: well, because they were originally all painted pre-delivery, in the USSR. And also because most of export customers in question continued purchasing and using Soviet-made colours for 'their' MiGs.
In turn, because of this, and because of your 'intervention' above, we now know that the colours issued to that 'Painters Brigade' assigned to the 64 IAK, were also based on the Soviet equivalent of the same, 'BS381C'.
And that, Yury, is narrowing the possible choice of paints mixed to create camo patterns applied on Soviet MiG-15s by quite some. Namely - and while I'll try not to exaggerate it, or turn this into some sort of 'hairsplitting': it makes quite some difference if one is
- a.) 'just using any green and black available in China as of the given time and place' to get 'his' colour; or,
- b.) if one is - just a 'wild' example (since we still do not yet know the exact shade) - mixing the BS381C/298 Olive Drab with BS381C/642 Night, or BS381C/220 Olive Green with any sort of Black.
So, I think you gents in Russia could kindly do us all a big favour and try to find one of involved painters. Somebody must still be around and know 'slightly more' about what colours they've got from the factory, and how did they mix them. If it was meanwhile possible to find out the exact shade of green used to paint most of T-34s manufactured and deployed in combat in WWII, it must be possible to find out about this too.
And, so I'm sure: whoever finds this out, and publishes his findings as first, is likely to become a kind of a 'star' in specific circles. ;-)
Edited by Tom Cooper

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Related to this is the following fact: it is such 'enthusiasts' - 'modellers' - that we can thank for 'discovering' that for most of the 20th Century, the Soviet Union was using the so-called 'British Standard 381C' in production of its military-related paints. Definitely, this 'BS381C', not some 'own' tables, not the German RAL, or the US Federal Standard.

Wow! This is the second epoch-making discovery after Erik Pilawskii's traktor green.

In turn, because of this, and because of your 'intervention' above, we now know that the colours issued to that 'Painters Brigade' assigned to the 64 IAK, were also based on the Soviet equivalent of the same, 'BS381C'.

Sorry Tom... You know, not we. So to name the Soviet paints after BS colours is right up your alley. I think I can't help you.

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Hello, privet!

There was a color system used already in Soviet times.

I have two editions of Soviet Estonian handbook of painting metal surfaces (T Varendi: Metallpindade värvimine, 1969 and 1978 editions). The latter of the two does write about color classification in the Soviet system (on p. 68):

Red colours were given numbers 1-99, oranges 100-199, yellows 200-299, greens 300-300, blues 400-499, purples (lilla) 500-599, browns 600-699, "protective" (~ camo greens) 700-799, whites & greys & blacks 800-899 and "additional colours" 900-999.

For some reason the book does not give any source or standard for this. It may be the system was introduced in early 70's ? At least before year 1974 (see below).

Search in the Internet gives the answer what the Soviet colour system was.

Colours are given in the ТУ 6-10-1449 - Картотека образцов (эталонов) цвета лакокрасочных материалов

I suppose there are several editions of this.technical specification and for example added dash number like ТУ 6-10-1449-92 means 1992 year edition.

This "kartoteka" can be found also in Internet as colour chart. Couple of sites:

www.hpyar.ru/clients/catalog_yarli1.jpg (image hopefully below)

catalog_yarli1.jpg

and

http://lakokraska-ya.ru/ral/

(scroll down for the Russian colour kartotek)

This site provides nice method to compare the GOST and RAL samples which can be "rolled" with sliders:

http://www.zavodlkm.ru/colors/

The unfortunate thing is that most of the interesting colour numbers for us belong to the "additional" group where there seem not to be "civilian" colour samples available. Perhaps the "additional" can be read as military/camouflage colours in this context?

For example the WW2 era AMT paints were (are?) later produced as nitrocellulose paints НЦ-5133м and the light brown (analoque to the AMT-1?) was produced according to colour samples (etalons) numbers 924 and 935.

Source for this is book Лакокрасочные покрытия в машиностроении, 1974. It was available in Internet in djvu-format (for which I at present do not have reading program). UDK (УДК) number 667.64.621.

I have heard that when Finland purchased the MiG-21BIS (or even the US 2-seaters?) the camouflage colours were referred to the British Standard colours. In any case the result was not even close in my opinion. Just compare the Finnish BAe Hawks and MiG-21BISes. So it is entirely possible that clients have asked BS colours? Stencilling for the FinnAF MiG-21F were in English (BIS had them in Russian cyrillics) and I have read this is true for other countries too and even in French in some cases? Just to emphasise that Soviets did listen to their customers somewhat, too.

I would not deny the BS colour reference use in Soviet aircraft colours a priori. If the actual colours painted on were anywhere near the target is another matter. In the scalemodels.ru -forum mr. Akan says also something about the matter:

http://scalemodels.ru/modules/forum/viewtopic_t_20349.html

My Russian is not good enough to provide translation and I am not even sure I understand it all correctly.

Cheers,

Kari

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I find the contention made here that Russian aircraft paints were matched to BS381c colours a bit strange, as even the British weren't using BS381c colours on aircraft in the early 1950s. Aircraft finishes were only incorporated into the British Standard series in 1964, so using a phrase like “BS381C/642 Night” in the context of the Korean War is meaningless.

John

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Hi Kari, terve!

I have heard that when Finland purchased the MiG-21BIS (or even the US 2-seaters?) the camouflage colours were referred to the British Standard colours. In any case the result was not even close in my opinion. Just compare the Finnish BAe Hawks and MiG-21BISes. So it is entirely possible that clients have asked BS colours? Stencilling for the FinnAF MiG-21F were in English (BIS had them in Russian cyrillics) and I have read this is true for other countries too and even in French in some cases? Just to emphasise that Soviets did listen to their customers somewhat, too.

Exactly. Foreign customers could ask RAL, BS or FS colours. They even could (and can) ask to paint with the authentic foreign paints - everything they're ready to pay for B)

Edited by Yury Tepsurkaev

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I find the contention made here that Russian aircraft paints were matched to BS381c colours a bit strange, as even the British weren't using BS381c colours on aircraft in the early 1950s. Aircraft finishes were only incorporated into the British Standard series in 1964, so using a phrase like “BS381C/642 Night” in the context of the Korean War is meaningless.

John

I think you are wrong there.

Although BS381c did not officially cover aircraft finishes, British aircraft colours were manufactured to the appropriate avaiation DTD standard which determined their make up, but not colour. The colours were matched to BS 381C so to use your example "Night" on an aircraft of the Korean war would be the “BS381C/642 Night” to "DTD XXXX" which was the current avaiation paint standard.

In the late 60's the RAF changed from cellelose to polyurethane based paints, therefore a different aviation standard (DTDXXXX cellelose changed to DTD YYYY polyurethane) but the colours standard remained to BS 381C.

Selwyn

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I still think it is extremely unlikely that MiG-15s during Korea were painted according to BS 381C. In fact, also looking at the discussion on scalemodels.ru to which Kari referred, there is some acknowledgement that Soviet manufacturers would possibly have tried to accommodate foreign clients if they specified a colour based on BS 381C, but that is about the only case where such standards would come into play - and that probably only in later years, not the 1950s. In fact, unless someone comes up with Soviet-era instructions referring to BS 381C for domestic use or factory workers stating unequivocally that they did indeed use it as a standard, I seriously doubt this new "revelation".

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I think you are wrong there.

Although BS381c did not officially cover aircraft finishes, British aircraft colours were manufactured to the appropriate avaiation DTD standard which determined their make up, but not colour. The colours were matched to BS 381C so to use your example "Night" on an aircraft of the Korean war would be the “BS381C/642 Night” to "DTD XXXX" which was the current avaiation paint standard.

In the late 60's the RAF changed from cellelose to polyurethane based paints, therefore a different aviation standard (DTDXXXX cellelose changed to DTD YYYY polyurethane) but the colours standard remained to BS 381C.

Selwyn

The only aircraft colours I can think of that originated in BS381 prior to the amalgamation with the Aircraft Finish standards in 1964 were Middle Stone and (possibly) RAF Blue Grey. The example of Night in the Korean War period would be Aircraft Finish No 8 (I think, off the top of my head) to the appropriate DTD standard. It didn't become BS381c 642 until 1964. The colour doesn't exist in the 1944 revision of BS381 (1930).

John

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Sorry Tom... You know, not we. So to name the Soviet paints after BS colours is right up your alley. I think I can't help you.

No problem, Yury: that's why I added the word 'now' to my sentence. I didn't know it until a year or so ago either, and my conclusion in relation to Soviet MiG-15s is something like 2 days old.

Now, regarding 'doubts' about Soviets using BS381C: this is really no 'day-dreaming'. The guys at the IAI have had all the possible colour plates and all the time of the world to check. Nothing else matched - but the BS381C.

Whether this was related to 'customer requests'... Obviously, I have no clue, but I strongly doubt that the customers were really influential (at least not in 1950s, 1960s or 1970s; I did very little research about subsequent times). Surely, no Soviet combat aircraft were delivered already painted in camo colours before Egypt began camouflaging their aircraft (immediately after the June 1967 War). So it seems that in the case of the late 1960s, it was 'Egyptian experiences' that influenced corresponding decisions. But the point is this: except in regards of number of aircraft and armament they delivered during those times (i.e. before, say, 1980), Soviets - generally - couldn't care less about customer requests. Most of the times they delivered what they preferred to deliver (based on status of the ally/customer in question, Moscow's preferences and availability of the hardware in question). Sometimes, they would deliver even more than was requested (see deliveries of Kh-66s and Su-20s to Iraq, as example), but such cases can be counted on fingers of one hand.

Also, many of export customers (see various African countries as example, but also Egypt and Syria) initially used their own paints. Indeed, when Egyptians began applying camouflage on their aircraft, immediately after the June 1967 War with Israel, they used car paints that were available at one of factories in Helwan (and applied them without any varnish, which is contrary to Syrians, who followed in fashion just a few weeks later, but applied varnish before painting)...

(Another example: when Egyptians purchased 30 MiG-21F-13s from Czechoslovakia, in 1968, it was the Czechoslovaks who decided how and in what colours to paint these. And whether the Czechoslovaks used BS381C... really, no clue. Their instruction sheet for camo application simply cited 'sand, green and blue'.)

I'm also not sure - there is no way to say, right now - if such colours were applied on MiGs only, or on Sukhois and other exported aircraft 'too'. The IAI has never overhauled any of Sukhois (except for one of Georgian Su-25s, which was apparently delivered still in 'primer'), and I've never got any piece of any exported Sukhoi to check. But, the point is that camouflaged Su-7BMKs became available (from the USSR) during the period 1968-1970. With exception of training aircraft, the first Soviet aircraft that were delivered to any foreign customers already painted in camouflage colours were Su-7BMKs, delivered around 1968. For comparison: first few batches of MiG-21Ms delivered to Egypt, Algeria or Iraq, arrived 'painted' in natural metall overall, in 1970. They were camouflaged only during overhauls, usually undertaken in the USSR (except in the case of Egypt, which did this locally). Only MiG-21MFs that began arriving in spring of 1971 were camouflaged 'right away'...

Thus, theoretically, one could guess and say, 'hey, the Ruskies have introduced the BS381C only after the RAF did so'.

But, sorry, that was simply not the case: as mentioned above, it was already long before that (must be sometimes in first half of 1950s, gauging by Egyptian Yak-11s and -18s delivered in 1955), that the Soviets began painting their training aircraft in what I used to call 'Russian Light Blue' (overall). This colour is meanwhile confirmed as actually being the 'Russian variant' of the BS381C/697 Light Admiralty Grey. It was in widespread use in the USSR back then, and is still in use in Russia and in number of its 'customer air forces' abroad until today.

That was another reason that led to my conclusion: the colours delivered to Korea must've been based on the same, BS381C-related, system, obviously introduced at a much earlier date (i.e. 'at latest sometimes in the first half of 1950s', rather than second half of 1960s).

Edited by Tom Cooper

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Source for this is book Лакокрасочные покрытия в машиностроении, 1974. It was available in Internet in djvu-format (for which I at present do not have reading program). UDK (УДК) number 667.64.621.

Kari,

for DJVU files I use WinDJViewer, a free software http://windjview.sourceforge.net/

Vedran

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Another example: when Egyptians purchased 30 MiG-21F-13s from Czechoslovakia, in 1968, it was the Czechoslovaks who decided how and in what colours to paint these. And whether the Czechoslovaks used BS381C... really, no clue. Their instruction sheet for camo application simply cited 'sand, green and blue'.

The color system used in Czechoslovakia at that time was the ČSN color system (ČSN - Československá státní norma = Czechoslovak national technical standard). Even nowadays the system is still valid technical standard (although the Č now stands only for Česká = Czech). It was used for all industrial branches, so the colors were applied on cars, locomotives, aircraft, etc.Some of the colors do have direct equivalent in RAL system, some do not. For example the usual camouflage pattern applied on L-39 Albatros by Aero Vodochody consisted of combination of khaki ČSN 5450, olive green ČSN 5220 and light grey ČSN 1010. So it's highly probable (although not 100% sure) that the colors used on exported MiG-21F-13s were actually ČSN colors.

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Oh, somebody who knows something about the Czechoslovak paint system - great, thanks JBr!

(Like I said, I simply 'love modellers' ;-))

OK, here the details in question...

Camo:

- Bezova (Beige/Sand) S2013/6270

- Khaki (Khaki) S2013/5450

- Modra (Blue) S2013/4265

Markings:

- Cervena (Red) S2013/8190

- Zelena (Green) S2013/5300

- Bila (White) S2013/1000

- Cerna (Black) S2013/1999

If you could point me somewhere where I could find 'specimen' of these?

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Well, except for the beige 6270 and red 8190, all the colors are still in production. Here's a scanned list of all colors currently produced by Barvy a laky (a successor of the original producer of all the colors) - http://www.bal.cz/media/files/22f23137c7938fec7e35d1bedde7608f/bal-teluria/vzorkovnice/s2013_industrol_univeral_biggest.jpg

Unfortunately 6270 and 8190 cannot be found (although 8190 is apparently still produced by some company, but I couldn't find any samples). But according to Czech Railways paint testing laboratory, 6270 should be a close (if not exact) match to RAL 1020 (olive yellow).

Edited by JBr

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Thank you very much for that. Aluminium oxide varnish is a relatively recent development and what you describe sounds more like a conventional aluminium paint rather than a varnish per se.

Regards

Nick

Hi Nick,

I have just seen the very interesting exchange of ideas and myths here on this forum. :) First of all Yuriy is right in saying that from a distance of more than 60 years no one will be able to precisely tell what the given shade of colour the camo was on those MiG-15's. Unfortunately the Russian units there were in secret and the local unit photographer Ivan had little chance to use Kodachrome 64 from which one could make a rough judgement even today (unlike the photographers on the other side of the war fence). And frankly who will be the one to question the colours that you use, unless of course if it is purple, pink or dayglo :sick: . . .

It is true that there were strict rules in Russia too (it was not chaos all around as most in the West would believe it) but those were war times and by the time the Russian supplies got to the forward bases a lot have happened to the paints and in lots of cases the maintenance crews had to improvise from what they had.

The reason why I wanted to comment is the aluminium colour paint. We also had MiG-15's in our Hungarian AF and I have read all the paint shop documentation used for overhaul of the aircraft, including the MiG-15. The original factory fresh aircraft simply had a layer (in some cases several layers) of clear varnish applied to them. Here you could see all the rivet heads and all the different shades of metal used in the aircraft production. On overhaul the aircraft were examined for surface damage, damage to the protective varnish layer and in most cases after washing off the original varnish were given a new layer after completely rebuilding the aircraft. The technological documents had the instruction of mixing plain aluminium powder to the varnish to create a aluminium coloured paint to give the aircraft a unified finish and cover up any repairs during the overhaul. Here we had about 6 to 8 % of aluminium powder added to the varnish, but I have seen in some Russian documents even 10%. The "aluminium paint" received a further coat of clear varnish.

The overhaul technologies we used were not of our own but from the original manufacturer, that is from Russian original sources. The only local changes were the introduction of some paints or varnishes (with same or similar, sometimes better properties) from local sources if they were not available from Russian.

This is the "aluminium paint" question for you.

Best regards

Gabor

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Thank you very much for that information Gabor. The addition of aluminium would also have had a slight protective effect for the substrata surface. Do the instructions give any clue as to whether that aluminium paint mixed in the varnish was leafing or non-leafing type? I'm sorry I do not know the Russian or Hungarian terms for that but leafing aluminium pigments were more usually used for finishing coats and non-leafing aluminium pigments for build or primer coats usually combined with micaceous iron oxide (MIO), silicates, silica and other fillers like barium sulfate.

Regards

Nick

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...Do the instructions give any clue as to whether that aluminium paint mixed in the varnish was leafing or non-leafing type?

...

Regards

Nick

Hello!

Not Gabor, but some answers. According Jyrki Laukkanen's book MiG-21 in Finnish Air Force our MiG-15 UTIs, MiG-21F and MiG-21U were painted with clear laquer AK-113F over which was painted clear coat AC-16 mxed with 7% PAK-4 aluminium powder. These planes looked natural metal superficially, so the coating was not opaque.

After long period of use (or if corrosion detected) following paint system was applied: KF-030 (КФ-030) primer, then laquer 170A with 10% aluminum powder and top laquer AC-16. High temperature areas were painted with KO-814. These planes look solid overall aluminium doped, or may even appear to be light grey.

My material shows that PAK-4 aluminum powder was made according Soviet standard GOST (ГОСТ) 5494-50. According this page: http://www.ngpedia.ru/id348901p2.html PAK-4 is лепестко-образный - petal-shaped - aluminium powder (thanks to translate.google). So leafing aluminium?

Cheers,

Kari

PS Soviet origin "Technological Instructions" for corrosion protection of magnesium surfaces (from 1960) does list A24G gloss green glyptal enamel, HV-16 perchlorovinyl enamel (green, blue-grey, aluminum and black colours) and HVE-32 blue perchlorovinyl enamel for exterior use on primed surfaces. At keast the former two types were in use before Korean War.

Edited by Kari Lumppio

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Thanks for that Kari, very interesting.

"petal-shaped" sounds like leafing aluminium where the flakes "float" to the surface of the coating and overlap parallel to the substrate to create a lamellar protection which provides resistance to ultraviolet radiation. The aluminium flakes also provide protection by causing ions or molecules to follow "a long, torturous path to the substrate, as compared with a direct path through an unfilled polymer". The optimum amount of aluminium pigment used in such protective films was usually determined by permeability studies.

Nick

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Hi Kari, thanks for the detailed answer. You are fast! :)

Hi Nick,

I think Kari has answered your questions on the aluminium powder question. I have to say I dont remember what was written in our documents. Will have to read up on this. The bible for this was "Technology 1970/1" which contained all relevant documentations going back to the early years of MiG-15 operations/overhaul. But I think Kari's answer gives it all. As said before neither us nor the Finnish did invent the technological procedures but they all came from Russian documentations given to us with the aircraft (or bought by the company tasked with overhaul of the aircraft). So they are the same as the one applicable to Russian aircraft. Deviation from it was only in case the given Russian original materials were not available.

One additional note is that even the factory fresh aircraft had some of their panels already painted with varnish mixed with alu powder. These were some areas, panels which were made from "other" metallic materials and not aluminium alloys, needing extra protection or already covered by other protective material. It is interesting for instance that the panels over the wing fuel tanks on MiG-21F-13, PF and U aircraft were covered with a several millimeter thick resin (yellowish brown) kind of material, these areas were painted over with pigment mixed varnish. You will see on many period photos that these panels look very different from the rest of the airframe and this is not because they are from different metal!

Best regards

Gabor

Edited by ya-gabor

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Very interesting discourse. Perfect example of why historical study is both frustrating & fascinating at the same time. Forums are excellent for this kind of discussion, in my opinion. I am grateful to all who have contributed!

Regards, Robert

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Found this old theme, as I intend to make a MiG-15 in Hungarian colours, which indeed look similar to those used in Korean war. I wonder whether they just used WWII stocks of AMT colours for bombers... At least they had light blue, tan and dark green colours there...

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On 29/01/2020 at 12:34, Termie said:

Found this old theme, as I intend to make a MiG-15 in Hungarian colours, which indeed look similar to those used in Korean war. I wonder whether they just used WWII stocks of AMT colours for bombers... At least they had light blue, tan and dark green colours there...

What, used old stock paint in Korea, or for Hungarian aircraft?

There is discussion about paint in the thread, but I doubt if was old WW2 paint in Korea. The consensus is that profiles shown are pretty conjectural,  and theire appearance maybe influenced by the later Soviet camouflage colours.   

I've not seen photos of MiG-15s in Korea that clearly show the schemes used, let alone the colours.

 

Warsaw pact aircraft only got camouflage in the 70's IIRC,  I don't know if the paint was Russian or Hungarian, but they look like the Soviet colours used on other types.   You might just want to start a new thread asking what the Hungarian colours were.

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