Help identifying British Sherman stowage

[Killingholme]

Hi all,

Just finished building the Dragon Sherman III 'Early production', which is a pain of a kit in all the ways that a Dragon armour kit is renowned for.

Anyway, I'll still use the kit decals for 'Brabham Moor' a Royal Scots Greys tank.

Here she is.

http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205204405

Could people take a look and help me identify the stowage on here. The ammo boxes appear to have been spot-welded to the tank (I'm reading those dark stains at their bases as rust streaking), but I'm not 100% sure I've correctly identified what type of box they are...

What is the contraption with the white frame or straps hanging off the back? That's got me stumped!

cheers for any help you can offer,

Will

Edited October 31, 2013 by Killingholme

[Sgt.Squarehead]

I think The boxes may be .30cal for the co-ax MG? I don't think that they would be welded to the hull and to my eye it looks like they are in a rack.

The top edge of the lower front frame of the rack is faintly visible as a horizontal line across the 'face' of the ammo boxes. The track adjusting wrench appears to be stowed underneath the rack and I believe the large box to the left of the ammo boxes is strapped to the left outside end of the rack

.

As for the contraption hanging off the back.....Not a Scooby!

Edited November 1, 2013 by Sgt.Squarehead

[Barrovian]

Looks like a folding chair to me

[ozz]

it does look like a chair, but i think it resembles the cages used on the side of the 3.7cm german AA guns. that is used to catch the shell cases.

Edited November 1, 2013 by ozz

[Shermaniac]

The boxes on the rear deck look to be a 5 gal flimsie (probably Water)- not fixed and a 25pdr or 75mm Ammo Box welded/mounted and providing a housing for the track spanner seen beneath it

The framework looks to be the breech guard (upside down) to the tank 75mm gun (removed) with other accompanyments.

This could be a command tank? so would not need this item as the gun was not really there???

[Sgt.Squarehead]

But surely a command tank would never have had a gun fitted in the first place?

I still think at least some of the 'boxes' are belted ammo, While the first three on the left may well be flimsies the proportions of the two 'boxes' on the right don't seem correct and there is clearly some stencilled writing on the last one, which strongly resembles this (to my eye):

Here's a 4-Gallon Flimsy for comparison:

Edited November 1, 2013 by Sgt.Squarehead

[Sgt.Squarehead]

To save flicking between windows, here's what we are talking about:

THE BRITISH ARMY IN ITALY 1943. © IWM (NA 8276)IWM Non Commercial Licence

[ozz]

some command tanks had dummy barrels made of wood.

and i agree about the breech guard. well spotted.

Edited November 1, 2013 by ozz

[pigsty]

I don't think the staining under the long ammunition box by the serial number is rust. It's more likely to be spilled fuel. The filler cap is just inboard of the tow cable / spanner.

[Niall]

I think the squarish box is for a primus stove.

[Sgt.Squarehead]

some command tanks had dummy barrels made of wood.

and i agree about the breech guard. well spotted.

Sure.....Which means they wouldn't ever have needed a breach.

[Killingholme]

Thanks guys this is really appreciated. I am convinced the frame is the breech guard. Seems an'odd thing to either remove or to keep as a spare! Wonder why they did that. Unless it just broke that day and someone's going to have to repair it. Surely if the gun had been removed the breech guard would havebeen bolted back'm on and the whole addembly kept together. Other than findingaveteran tanker to ask, who knows. but the important thing is that it is there and I'll have to make it!

Thanks for the advice 're boxes and attachments. Forgot about the position of the fuel fillers- seems more likely than ruststreaks-I was thinking about the way you saw the sand guards spot welded to the hind quarters of Shermans in Italy and maybe got carried away...

If the 25per box is in a rack,I don't suppose anyone knows of a photo of said type of rack empty? I assume something'like the crate fitted to the front fender on british Shermans?

Thanks once again guys

Will

Edited November 2, 2013 by Killingholme

[hwallen1410]

I think the large box is a 6pdr ammo box (the strange wavy line gives it away)

Not the clearest picture:

Not sure if it is in a rack, though I have seen racks on British Shermans in that position, will see if I can dig out a picture.

No idea why the Breech Guard has been removed. As far as I am aware command tanks were still armed, you might be confusing them with the RHA forward observer tanks.

Hope this helps.

[JackG]

Can't add much more to what others have spotted, but This Bronco set might help your accessorize your build:

As for the breech, not sure the reasoning, but have seen some British shermans utilize the rear section of a mud guard as a bin, by flipping it upside down.

regards,

Jack

Edited November 2, 2013 by JackG

[JackG]

Was able to find film footage of the tank in question, at about the 3.27 min mark:

http://www.britishpathe.com/search/query/183816/playlist/1

From the same page you can also access viewing of individual stills.

regards,

Jack

[Killingholme]

Jack, you champion! I'd never have found that! Gives me a hint at what the stowage was on the front too. Glad I don't have the skills to do dioramas, or that 10 seconds of footage might have cost me a load of money in figures and scenery!

cheers,

Will

[Killingholme]

Hi all,

Another quick question= what type of track do you think this Sherman is wearing? I haven't found a single photo of a British Sherman in italy wearing the kit-supplied plain rubber block tracks, and the one's in the pictues look like they have some kind of relief in them.

Can of worms duly re-opened...

Will

[Andrew Jones]

Some tank crews removed the breech guard to make it easier to bale out in an emergency.

Andrew

[Sgt.Squarehead]

Looks like WE210 to me:

Might just possibly be T49:

But I don't think so.

Some tank crews removed the breech guard to make it easier to bale out in an emergency.

Andrew

Now that would make sense.

Edited November 5, 2013 by Sgt.Squarehead

[Killingholme]

Cheers Andrew and Squarehead.

I really did think the track looked like the rubber block WE210 too!- the 'block' relief seems very pronounced in the photos-more so than on the typical steel chevron type of track. Damn Dragon- it looks like I'll have to buy tedious, fiddly, expensive, aftermarket working tracks. I REALLY didn't want to have to do that...

Will

[Killingholme]

Oh god, it's even worse than I thought...

Bronco's replacement WE210 tracks "consists of 960 parts in light beige plastic... "

I swear it's the last time I buy a Dragon armour kit! I end up throwing half of the kit into the spares bin.

[keefr22]

Why don't you build it in a dio a couple of seconds after the picture was taken - the tracks would be invisible then....!!

It's OK, I've got me

[Sgt.Squarehead]

I swear it's the last time I buy a Dragon armour kit!

I've said that a few times too.....But for almost the opposite reason!