Hurricane colour question.

[stevej60]

Guys,can I call on your expertise again,I am at the painting stage of yet another BoB hurricane and using aftermarket

decals issued by Extradecal , the colour given for the undersides is sky grey as opposed to sky or sky blue as shown

on other aircraft on the sheet as a tamiya paint user can I use their sky grey as being near enough?

[Troy Smith]

Yep, can of worms.

If you have a serial number, you could at least have chance to know if it was painted at the factory in sky, or repainted at MU or unit level when 'sky' was introduced on 6th june 1940.

I doubt Xtradecal really know, and 'sky grey' is a guess. What scheme you are planning might get you a better answer, or even better a photo.

But, from what I have read about the subject, I doubt a 'sky grey' but odd pale blues and pale green's are quite possible.

There are threads here which talk about the actual pigments in sky, and the possible variations from unit level mixing.....

right, this got me curious, so I looked up the Xtradecal sheet, and from the instructions you want to VY-R, P2923?

Well, the Xtradecal instructions for this are really not very good. Why?

This plane is a rarity from the era in as much as there are a series of Life pics of it, show both sides and a taxiying frontal shot.

It's certainly an infield repaint, and the instruction totally fail to show the high demarcation line on the nose, and the wavy leading edge on the wings. Don't trust a profile with a photo is my motto!

It shows the spinner as 'black with light green bands' ...where the got that from is anybody guess. More likely is red with yellow or white, as the spinner most closely resembles the fin flash in greyscale. But it's not black! [Edit, I think white stripes are most likely, as there is yellow visible in the photos, and the stripes are lighter in tone]

as seen here

RAF FIGHTER COMMAND 1940. © IWM (HU 104510)IWM Non Commercial Licence

 

the other side. Note high 'sky' line on rear fusleage and carry over onto base of rudder.

THE BATTLE OF BRITAIN. © IWM (HU 54416)IWM Non Commercial Licence

 

and from the front, clearly showing the wavy leading edge. Also, just noticed, the similarity of tone of the spinner to the doped gun ports.

FWIW I'd  say the spinner is red with white stripes. (not black with green!!!!)

RAF FIGHTER COMMAND 1940. © IWM (HU 104493)IWM Non Commercial Licence

 

There is also a shot in flight, as well as 6-8 other shots of this plane, look on the IWM site for more.

EDIT

plane in fight in linked thread [doh], so here's the pic

Coloured spinners? why? as at the time of the pics , taken at Castle Camps in july 1940, 85 Sq was quite possibly using spinner painted in flight colours, there is a pic of a pilots with a plane with what looks to be yellow,

and also of Townsend plane with looks to be a white spinner [as he was C/O I guess]

85 sq seemed to be media darlings, and there are are 5 separate photo sets from 1940 ish about [France, phoney war, many 1940, Castle camps July 1940, October 1940 and as nightfighters winter 1940/41]

see here http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234907653-hurricane-i-vy-cg-of-85-sqn-lille-seclin-around-apr-1940/

Note this [page has links to other Hurricane threads....like that your interior framework and wheels wells should be aluminium paint...

I hope this helps. I really should avoid these posts as I end up getting carried away...

cheers

T

[Black Knight]

Well, I for one, thankyou Troy for getting 'carried away'. I enjoyed reading this and learning.

[GrahamB]

Hi Black Knight,

if you want to use Tamiya's Sky Grey you need to 'dilute' it about 2:1 with Tamiya white (not very dense) just to get to full scale colour (using the FS. match), in my opinion/experience. It is good for hue, but too dark by far for a 1/72 or 1/48 model. Sky Grey has been recorded on at least one BOB Hurricane according to Paul Lucas and Neil Robinson (I think - reference not to hand).

Cheers,

Graham

[johnd]

Yes, Paul Lucas shows some evidence in the Camouflage and Markings 'Battle for Britain' book. There's a Spitfire tail wheel at Shoreham Airport in Sky Grey and also a fabric covered elevator.

His argument is that the official Sky colour was not immediately available in sufficient quantity so squadrons made do with what they had.

John.

[Edgar]

To me, that aircraft has all the look of an initial repaint with Sky (or whatever they had available,) followed by another "make do" application of black (nightfighter) distemper over the majority of the underside, leaving an edging of the "Sky" showing through in places. This would also tie in with the fitting of the exhaust glare shields, which were only necessary for night use.

Edgar

Edited October 15, 2013 by Edgar

[stevej60]

Guys yet again thanks for for your expertise! and Troy thanks for getting carried away!I would have been happy with the clarification on the grey

but after seeing the photographs I MUST replicate that scheme, so not looking for perfection would I paint her in the camoflage scheme as per the

instructions with sky/black undersides and high wavy demarcation lines, decals kept the same,and add the exhaust shields.and red spinner?

regards Steve.

[johnd]

Getting to paint the spinner red has to be a bonus!

[Troy Smith]

On 15/10/2013 at 10:05, Edgar said:

To me, that aircraft has all the look of an initial repaint with Sky (or whatever they had available,) followed by another "make do" application of black (nightfighter) distemper over the majority of the underside, leaving an edging of the "Sky" showing through in places. This would also tie in with the fitting of the exhaust glare shields, which were only necessary for night use.

Edgar

HI Edgar

I've not heard of temporary black undersides in July 1940 before, or of 85 Sq being used for nightfighter duties then.

But, if the undersides are in black distemper, why are the UC doors still in 'sky'?

(emphasis added as this was never answered below) 

 

thanks

T

[Edgar]

I've not heard of temporary black undersides in July 1940 before, or of 85 Sq being used for nightfighter duties then.

An extract from "Fighter Squadrons of the RAF and their aircraft":-

"... on the 19th (May) became non-operational returning to Debden three days later. As it built up to operational strength once more No.85 began to take on night-fighting commitment as well as its daytime operations."

There follows a report on its successes during July and August, then, "In September the squadron moved north for a rest and to concentrate on night-fighting, becoming operational by night in October."

85 Squadron were also the unit who carried out some of the black v green experiments in 1941, eventually leading to the green/sea grey medium night-fighter scheme.

Edgar

[Edgar]

I had a quick look at 85's ORB, last Saturday, and 7/7 S/L Townsend did a night patrol, 9/7 "L" "F" & "K" did night patrols, as did "H" & "Q" on 9/7, and "H" "Q" "K" & "G" on the 20/7. When (if) I get a chance for a more leisurely look, I'll see if "R" was ever used like that (stupidly, before leaving, I forgot to make a note of its letter and serial.)

Edgar

[stevej60]

Finally posted finished Airfix hurricane in RFI section,thanks for all the information guys,how are you on spitfires? I,ve got a few to start soon!

[gingerbob]

Not much is known about the Spitfire...

[Work In Progress]

Yes, it is an obscure type of which we know little and mention but rarely. What aspect of it would you like a wild guess at?